Update 18.02 | Wednesday 10th April

[CMDR Kraag]

There are some things we want you to experience for yourselves

To what end? You guys do this constantly, thinking that being intentionally vague and opaque about your game somehow equates to greater engagement. It doesn't.

You release these undocumented mysteries thinking it will result in some great "A-ha!" moments on the part of the player base at large. Instead, only a very small number of the player base typically deconstructs or solves your "puzzles" in a matter of hours or a few days (and you always underestimate your players and seem surprised they figure it out so quickly, yet you go and do it again and again).

Then, through social media, it becomes common knowledge, negating your claim of "wanting us to experience it for ourselves". That claim only applies to about a dozen players in the vanguard of solving the "mystery" who then post their results for all to see. Then the rest of the current players all get the memo and have incorporated the new functionality or new reveal into their play without having "experienced it for themselves" (defeating your stated goal).

However, social media being the here-today-gone-tomorrow phenomenon it is, new players who join the game after the reveal has faded into Internet obscurity just wind up frustrated and confused due to the lack of in-game documentation. Now they have to go search for it. Which means, while they're searching, they're not playing your game. Brilliant move!

It's a common criticism repeated over and over again on the E sub-reddit where such complaints aren't so easily removed: "Why doesn't the game tell me how to do XYZ?" I'm not talking overarching hand-holding here; instead, it's the little things such as simple ship functions for which there's no documentation, instruction, nor tutorial. It leaves new players unnecessarily frustrated and perplexed with the same questions about the most basic of functions asked over and over and over again on a daily basis.

Or the other complaint: "Why do I (the new player) have to open half a dozen browser windows' worth of YouTube tutorials and 3rd-party websites just to discover basic stuff about the game that should already be included in it?" Even a simple roll-over / mouse hover pop-up tutorial mode that tells players what each menu item in their ship does would be a huge improvement. I know it's too late in the game to ever see that happen, but let's not add to the existing confusion with yet another undocumented ship function.

The game is already complex enough as it is; no reason to artificially make it more so. Yet here you are adding another "Figure it out yourself because we couldn't be bothered to write two sentences about how Supercruise Overcharge works". That doesn't draw new players in; that turns them off to the game. It's not binary; there's plenty more to the game to draw them in. But once so drawn in by the immersion and beauty of Eliteangerous, they run up against that wall of obtuse obfuscation that leaves them justifiably frustrated over all the little things for which no in-game guidance nor explanation exists.

Basic Documentation 101. And, no, the Codex doesn't cut it; it's not broad enough nor granular enough and it, too, is yet another buried resource one has to go digging through to find anything relevant versus placing the explanation at the first point of contact (i.e. player hovers over or highlights ship menu item, pop-up tells them what that menu item does; once they feel they've become familiar with all the controls and menus they can simply turn tutorial mode off). You're sitting on this gold mine of a game, yet repeatedly undermine your own product by making it less accessible to new players than it has to be.

Why the big mystery? No one cares about the mystery. They care about being able to purchase and equip a module to their ship that will (hopefully) greatly reduce their boring Supercruise transit times. Why not just give them the information they need to make that happen rather than burying it behind the excuse of, "There are some things we want you to experience for yourselves." Like what? Eats up your fuel at a greatly accelerated rate? Using it draws the Thargoids' attention to your ship? Use it too long and its integrity degrades? Etc., etc., etc. Those are fine; players can discover those for themselves. But not telling us how it functions, how to activate it, its perfomance stats? What purpose is served withholding that information?

And, no, I'm not a new player; I've put 11,000 hours into the game. But I'm very active on the E sub-reddit and see the same questions, the same confusion, the same frustration voiced by new players over and over and over on the daily for years now. It doesn't have to be this way. You're not endearing yourself to new players with this approach of being intentionally vague. Would it really be that hard to just come right out and say, "To activate Supercruise Overcharge, do XYZ" or, "Here's an explanation of how the new Supercruise Overcharge works" ?

 

[Oh Seven Commander]

This module is possibly going to be great for ships in Open. Fast Boot + faster supercruise time? This is going to take some already very hard to catch/kill ships and make them even better.

 

[Fizzatron]

To what end? You guys do this constantly, thinking that being intentionally vague and opaque about your game somehow equates to greater engagement. It doesn't.

You release these undocumented mysteries thinking it will result in some great "A-ha!" moments on the part of the player base at large. Instead, only a very small number of the player base typically deconstructs or solves your "puzzles" in a matter of hours or a few days (and you always underestimate your players and seem surprised they figure it out so quickly, yet you go and do it again and again).

Then, through social media, it becomes common knowledge, negating your claim of "wanting us to experience it for ourselves". That claim only applies to about a dozen players in the vanguard of solving the "mystery" who then post their results for all to see. Then the rest of the current players all get the memo and have incorporated the new functionality or new reveal into their play without having "experienced it for themselves" (defeating your stated goal).

However, social media being the here-today-gone-tomorrow phenomenon it is, new players who join the game after the reveal has faded into Internet obscurity just wind up frustrated and confused due to the lack of in-game documentation. Now they have to go search for it. Which means, while they're searching, they're not playing your game. Brilliant move!

It's a common criticism repeated over and over again on the E sub-reddit where such complaints aren't so easily removed: "Why doesn't the game tell me how to do XYZ?" I'm not talking overarching hand-holding here; instead, it's the little things such as simple ship functions for which there's no documentation, instruction, nor tutorial. It leaves new players unnecessarily frustrated and perplexed with the same questions about the most basic of functions asked over and over and over again on a daily basis.

Or the other complaint: "Why do I (the new player) have to open half a dozen browser windows' worth of YouTube tutorials and 3rd-party websites just to discover basic stuff about the game that should already be included in it?" Even a simple roll-over / mouse hover pop-up tutorial mode that tells players what each menu item in their ship does would be a huge improvement. I know it's too late in the game to ever see that happen, but let's not add to the existing confusion with yet another undocumented ship function.

The game is already complex enough as it is; no reason to artificially make it more so. Yet here you are adding another "Figure it out yourself because we couldn't be bothered to write two sentences about how Supercruise Overcharge works". That doesn't draw new players in; that turns them off to the game. It's not binary; there's plenty more to the game to draw them in. But once so drawn in by the immersion and beauty of Eliteangerous, they run up against that wall of obtuse obfuscation that leaves them justifiably frustrated over all the little things for which no in-game guidance nor explanation exists.

Basic Documentation 101. And, no, the Codex doesn't cut it; it's not broad enough nor granular enough and it, too, is yet another buried resource one has to go digging through to find anything relevant versus placing the explanation at the first point of contact (i.e. player hovers over or highlights ship menu item, pop-up tells them what that menu item does; once they feel they've become familiar with all the controls and menus they can simply turn tutorial mode off). You're sitting on this gold mine of a game, yet repeatedly undermine your own product by making it less accessible to new players than it has to be.

Why the big mystery? No one cares about the mystery. They care about being able to purchase and equip a module to their ship that will (hopefully) greatly reduce their boring Supercruise transit times. Why not just give them the information they need to make that happen rather than burying it behind the excuse of, "There are some things we want you to experience for yourselves." Like what? Eats up your fuel at a greatly accelerated rate? Using it draws the Thargoids' attention to your ship? Use it too long and its integrity degrades? Etc., etc., etc. Those are fine; players can discover those for themselves. But not telling us how it functions, how to activate it, its perfomance stats? What purpose is served withholding that information?

And, no, I'm not a new player; I've put 11,000 hours into the game. But I'm very active on the E sub-reddit and see the same questions, the same confusion, the same frustration voiced by new players over and over and over on the daily for years now. It doesn't have to be this way. You're not endearing yourself to new players with this approach of being intentionally vague. Would it really be that hard to just come right out and say, "To activate Supercruise Overcharge, do XYZ" or, "Here's an explanation of how the new Supercruise Overcharge works" ?

I'm pretty sure all the effort put into this wall of text would have been sufficient to find out every last detail of the new FSD when you get to try it out tomorrow.. btw; tl:dr.

 

[CMDR ROGER]

on the E sub-reddit

beauty of Eliteangerous

But I'm very active on the E sub-reddit

Come again?

 

[Rubbernuke]

Max approves of this modification

 

[aRJay]

To what end? You guys do this constantly, thinking that being intentionally vague and opaque about your game somehow equates to greater engagement. It doesn't.

You release these undocumented mysteries thinking it will result in some great "A-ha!" moments on the part of the player base at large. Instead, only a very small number of the player base typically deconstructs or solves your "puzzles" in a matter of hours or a few days (and you always underestimate your players and seem surprised they figure it out so quickly, yet you go and do it again and again).

Then, through social media, it becomes common knowledge, negating your claim of "wanting us to experience it for ourselves". That claim only applies to about a dozen players in the vanguard of solving the "mystery" who then post their results for all to see. Then the rest of the current players all get the memo and have incorporated the new functionality or new reveal into their play without having "experienced it for themselves" (defeating your stated goal).

However, social media being the here-today-gone-tomorrow phenomenon it is, new players who join the game after the reveal has faded into Internet obscurity just wind up frustrated and confused due to the lack of in-game documentation. Now they have to go search for it. Which means, while they're searching, they're not playing your game. Brilliant move!

It's a common criticism repeated over and over again on the E sub-reddit where such complaints aren't so easily removed: "Why doesn't the game tell me how to do XYZ?" I'm not talking overarching hand-holding here; instead, it's the little things such as simple ship functions for which there's no documentation, instruction, nor tutorial. It leaves new players unnecessarily frustrated and perplexed with the same questions about the most basic of functions asked over and over and over again on a daily basis.

Or the other complaint: "Why do I (the new player) have to open half a dozen browser windows' worth of YouTube tutorials and 3rd-party websites just to discover basic stuff about the game that should already be included in it?" Even a simple roll-over / mouse hover pop-up tutorial mode that tells players what each menu item in their ship does would be a huge improvement. I know it's too late in the game to ever see that happen, but let's not add to the existing confusion with yet another undocumented ship function.

The game is already complex enough as it is; no reason to artificially make it more so. Yet here you are adding another "Figure it out yourself because we couldn't be bothered to write two sentences about how Supercruise Overcharge works". That doesn't draw new players in; that turns them off to the game. It's not binary; there's plenty more to the game to draw them in. But once so drawn in by the immersion and beauty of Eliteangerous, they run up against that wall of obtuse obfuscation that leaves them justifiably frustrated over all the little things for which no in-game guidance nor explanation exists.

Basic Documentation 101. And, no, the Codex doesn't cut it; it's not broad enough nor granular enough and it, too, is yet another buried resource one has to go digging through to find anything relevant versus placing the explanation at the first point of contact (i.e. player hovers over or highlights ship menu item, pop-up tells them what that menu item does; once they feel they've become familiar with all the controls and menus they can simply turn tutorial mode off). You're sitting on this gold mine of a game, yet repeatedly undermine your own product by making it less accessible to new players than it has to be.

Why the big mystery? No one cares about the mystery. They care about being able to purchase and equip a module to their ship that will (hopefully) greatly reduce their boring Supercruise transit times. Why not just give them the information they need to make that happen rather than burying it behind the excuse of, "There are some things we want you to experience for yourselves." Like what? Eats up your fuel at a greatly accelerated rate? Using it draws the Thargoids' attention to your ship? Use it too long and its integrity degrades? Etc., etc., etc. Those are fine; players can discover those for themselves. But not telling us how it functions, how to activate it, its perfomance stats? What purpose is served withholding that information?

And, no, I'm not a new player; I've put 11,000 hours into the game. But I'm very active on the E sub-reddit and see the same questions, the same confusion, the same frustration voiced by new players over and over and over on the daily for years now. It doesn't have to be this way. You're not endearing yourself to new players with this approach of being intentionally vague. Would it really be that hard to just come right out and say, "To activate Supercruise Overcharge, do XYZ" or, "Here's an explanation of how the new Supercruise Overcharge works" ?

Yes they could put an explanation in the game in a way that made everybody have to read it or they could follow the usual practise of let people who enjoy that sort of thing work it out and then let everybody who couldn't or didn't want to do it that way know how it works via social media. Which would keep both groups reasonably happy.

 

[KrixtinaViperX]

However, social media being the here-today-gone-tomorrow phenomenon it is, new players who join the game after the reveal has faded into Internet obscurity just wind up frustrated and confused due to the lack of in-game documentation. Now they have to go search for it. Which means, while they're searching, they're not playing your game. Brilliant move!

It's a common criticism repeated over and over again on the E sub-reddit where such complaints aren't so easily removed: "Why doesn't the game tell me how to do XYZ?" I'm not talking overarching hand-holding here; instead, it's the little things such as simple ship functions for which there's no documentation, instruction, nor tutorial. It leaves new players unnecessarily frustrated and perplexed with the same questions about the most basic of functions asked over and over and over again on a daily basis.

Or the other complaint: "Why do I (the new player) have to open half a dozen browser windows' worth of YouTube tutorials and 3rd-party websites just to discover basic stuff about the game that should already be included in it?" Even a simple roll-over / mouse hover pop-up tutorial mode that tells players what each menu item in their ship does would be a huge improvement. I know it's too late in the game to ever see that happen, but let's not add to the existing confusion with yet another undocumented ship function.

The game is already complex enough as it is; no reason to artificially make it more so. Yet here you are adding another "Figure it out yourself because we couldn't be bothered to write two sentences about how Supercruise Overcharge works". That doesn't draw new players in; that turns them off to the game. It's not binary; there's plenty more to the game to draw them in. But once so drawn in by the immersion and beauty of Eliteangerous, they run up against that wall of obtuse obfuscation that leaves them justifiably frustrated over all the little things for which no in-game guidance nor explanation exists.

New players are new playering. They are not worrying about what an overcharge does, how to supercharge FSD jumps, how to do any of the undocumented features. They are still figuring out how to dock without a docking computer. The tutorials give you quite a lot, but there is a huge amount to find out.

Why the big mystery? No one cares about the mystery. They care about being able to purchase and equip a module to their ship that will (hopefully) greatly reduce their boring Supercruise transit times. Why not just give them the information they need to make that happen rather than burying it behind the excuse of, "There are some things we want you to experience for yourselves." Like what? Eats up your fuel at a greatly accelerated rate? Using it draws the Thargoids' attention to your ship? Use it too long and its integrity degrades? Etc., etc., etc. Those are fine; players can discover those for themselves. But not telling us how it functions, how to activate it, its perfomance stats? What purpose is served withholding that information?

So you can do some discovering in a game about discovery. It's fun to figure stuff out, whether it is through a tutorial on a webpage or youtube or trying stuff out yourself. This is a hard game. It's not some follow the walkthrough game, it's not some you should be able to go to meta within 2 hours game. The difficulty makes it absorbing and fun.

You're not endearing yourself to new players with this approach of being intentionally vague. Would it really be that hard to just come right out and say, "To activate Supercruise Overcharge, do XYZ" or, "Here's an explanation of how the new Supercruise Overcharge works" ?

New players really really don't care about how to do Supercruise Overcharge. They are still figuring out pip management, how to honk, DSS, FSS, land on a planet, do some mining, etc. Just like they don't really care about engineering or BGS or even Galnet until someone tells them about it or they trip over it somehow.

It being a BIG game is what makes it fun, but yes, difficult.

I am excited. Thanks, FDEV!

 

[Serbanstein]

Can we supercruise between systems now? If not, I'd rather we knew now and not spend days testing...

 

[Oh Seven Commander]

Can we supercruise between systems now? If not, I'd rather we knew now and not spend days testing...

I could be wrong, but I'm guessing that won't be possible. The update will only take some hours. The bottleneck on SC'ing between systems is the loading screen of witchspace. If they got rid of that, that would be a huge overhaul, and I'm guessing that update would take most of the day, tbh.

 

[Serbanstein]

I could be wrong, but I'm guessing that won't be possible. The update will only take some hours. The bottleneck on SC'ing between systems is the loading screen of witchspace. If they got rid of that, that would be a huge overhaul, and I'm guessing that update would take most of the day, tbh.

Inter-system SC is something that came to mind because these FSD's are inspired by Titan tech, and Titans arrived here via interstellar supercruise essentially, except instead of a welding-like flare, it's a thargoid-shaped flare (stargoid).

 

[Kuratius]

I could be wrong, but I'm guessing that won't be possible. The update will only take some hours. The bottleneck on SC'ing between systems is the loading screen of witchspace. If they got rid of that, that would be a huge overhaul, and I'm guessing that update would take most of the day, tbh.

That not the full truth. They could easily add things like reducing fuel costs if you supercruise very close to a nearby system, or jumping back into the same system if you are very far away from the central star.
It'd essentially give you the same gameplay options you'd have have if genuine supercruise between systems was a thing, and it all it would take is making jump cost be calculated based on distance and permitting your current system as a valid target. Iiirc the distance already changes if you supercruise long enough, the fuel cost calculation is just bugged and pulls the distance from the galaxy map.

On that note, has that ever been reported as a proper bug? If not, someone should.

 

[Fizzatron]

Inter-system SC is something that came to mind because these FSD's are inspired by Titan tech, and Titans arrived here via interstellar supercruise essentially, except instead of a welding-like flare, it's a thargoid-shaped flare (stargoid).

It would be pretty cool to see, but I highly doubt it.

 

[yianniv]

To what end? You guys do this constantly, thinking that being intentionally vague and opaque about your game somehow equates to greater engagement. It doesn't.

You release these undocumented mysteries thinking it will result in some great "A-ha!" moments on the part of the player base at large. Instead, only a very small number of the player base typically deconstructs or solves your "puzzles" in a matter of hours or a few days (and you always underestimate your players and seem surprised they figure it out so quickly, yet you go and do it again and again).

Then, through social media, it becomes common knowledge, negating your claim of "wanting us to experience it for ourselves". That claim only applies to about a dozen players in the vanguard of solving the "mystery" who then post their results for all to see. Then the rest of the current players all get the memo and have incorporated the new functionality or new reveal into their play without having "experienced it for themselves" (defeating your stated goal).

However, social media being the here-today-gone-tomorrow phenomenon it is, new players who join the game after the reveal has faded into Internet obscurity just wind up frustrated and confused due to the lack of in-game documentation. Now they have to go search for it. Which means, while they're searching, they're not playing your game. Brilliant move!

It's a common criticism repeated over and over again on the E sub-reddit where such complaints aren't so easily removed: "Why doesn't the game tell me how to do XYZ?" I'm not talking overarching hand-holding here; instead, it's the little things such as simple ship functions for which there's no documentation, instruction, nor tutorial. It leaves new players unnecessarily frustrated and perplexed with the same questions about the most basic of functions asked over and over and over again on a daily basis.

Or the other complaint: "Why do I (the new player) have to open half a dozen browser windows' worth of YouTube tutorials and 3rd-party websites just to discover basic stuff about the game that should already be included in it?" Even a simple roll-over / mouse hover pop-up tutorial mode that tells players what each menu item in their ship does would be a huge improvement. I know it's too late in the game to ever see that happen, but let's not add to the existing confusion with yet another undocumented ship function.

The game is already complex enough as it is; no reason to artificially make it more so. Yet here you are adding another "Figure it out yourself because we couldn't be bothered to write two sentences about how Supercruise Overcharge works". That doesn't draw new players in; that turns them off to the game. It's not binary; there's plenty more to the game to draw them in. But once so drawn in by the immersion and beauty of Eliteangerous, they run up against that wall of obtuse obfuscation that leaves them justifiably frustrated over all the little things for which no in-game guidance nor explanation exists.

Basic Documentation 101. And, no, the Codex doesn't cut it; it's not broad enough nor granular enough and it, too, is yet another buried resource one has to go digging through to find anything relevant versus placing the explanation at the first point of contact (i.e. player hovers over or highlights ship menu item, pop-up tells them what that menu item does; once they feel they've become familiar with all the controls and menus they can simply turn tutorial mode off). You're sitting on this gold mine of a game, yet repeatedly undermine your own product by making it less accessible to new players than it has to be.

Why the big mystery? No one cares about the mystery. They care about being able to purchase and equip a module to their ship that will (hopefully) greatly reduce their boring Supercruise transit times. Why not just give them the information they need to make that happen rather than burying it behind the excuse of, "There are some things we want you to experience for yourselves." Like what? Eats up your fuel at a greatly accelerated rate? Using it draws the Thargoids' attention to your ship? Use it too long and its integrity degrades? Etc., etc., etc. Those are fine; players can discover those for themselves. But not telling us how it functions, how to activate it, its perfomance stats? What purpose is served withholding that information?

And, no, I'm not a new player; I've put 11,000 hours into the game. But I'm very active on the E sub-reddit and see the same questions, the same confusion, the same frustration voiced by new players over and over and over on the daily for years now. It doesn't have to be this way. You're not endearing yourself to new players with this approach of being intentionally vague. Would it really be that hard to just come right out and say, "To activate Supercruise Overcharge, do XYZ" or, "Here's an explanation of how the new Supercruise Overcharge works" ?

Please try to relax, cmdr. Why not wait until after the release to vent like that?

 

[Jack Winter]

Awesome! Looking forward to checking out the new FSD. It will also be great to not hear the "32 button limit" complaint ever again!

I'm considering writing a rant as this means I'll probably spend time reconfiguring my virpil gear..

 

[Dragsham]

SC overdrive.
Mmm sounds like a pvp buff to me.
This new 2.0 PP pvp hint.
The new python 2.0 pvp?
Ohh.
Interdiction turbo stylee?
Mind you cargo/mission runners fitted with it will kinda cancel it out.
Guess we will have to wait n see
Or maybe simply be able to zip across a given system fast !?

 

[Ozric]

On that note, has that ever been reported as a proper bug? If not, someone should.

Not being able to SC between systems isn't a bug, it's more about having to create a new instance for the destination system. All systems aren't linked together in one giant instance that is created when you log in.

 

[HRDiagram]

Like the original Stargoids, number of CMDRs in overcruise will be detected in the HONK, heard in FSSS, and see in the cockpit, in 4000Ly around them.

You will never be alone again.

The voices in my head!



Even worse: the voices in my head spouting the gibberish found normally on the general chat in Deciat

 

[Kuratius]

Not being able to SC between systems isn't a bug, it's more about having to create a new instance for the destination system. All systems aren't linked together in one giant instance that is created when you log in.

You didn't read my post.

 

[Ozric]

You didn't read my post.

OK, sorry. It's still not a bug Quite clearly a design choice that jumping from any point in the system is considered the same distance in Ly. Rather than the game having to work out your exact position in the current system compared to the exact position of the jump in point of the destination system at that moment in time. And then calculate how much fuel that would require.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I could be wrong, but I'm guessing that won't be possible. The update will only take some hours. The bottleneck on SC'ing between systems is the loading screen of witchspace. If they got rid of that, that would be a huge overhaul, and I'm guessing that update would take most of the day, tbh.

It's possibly one of those things where 99%+ of the cases could be done very easily based on what Frontier has already demonstrated possible, and the remaining tiny fraction might never have a good solution.

There are already several different loading screen types to do the inter-system transition (initial game load, tutorial entry/exit, witchspace, carrier jump, remote multicrew entry/exit, rebuy, escape pod, prison hand-in, hyperdiction, probably some more) so adding an extra one which looked like normal supercruise travel and triggered if your closest system changed would probably also be possible. Sure, you'd get most of your controls locked out for 30 seconds somewhere in the middle of your multi-day trip and the background starfield would suddenly jump a bit, but you'd have to be paying attention to notice that.

It's the weird cases that would then take up all the time: permit systems, obviously, but also the minimum distance between systems is 1/32 LY, which is smaller than the in-system separation of bodies in some systems, so there'd probably be some cases near the core where you couldn't supercruise to a secondary star because you'd teleport into a different system first.