ALLIANCE CHIEFTAIN AX COMBAT JUMPSTART - is it any good?

[Doctor Dread]

• Hardpoints
  
  • 2x 3C Gimballed Enhanced AX Multi-Cannon
  • Guardian Nanite Torpedo Pylon
  • 1E Gimballed Beam Laser
  • 2x Small Guardian Gauss Cannon with Anti-Guardian Resistance
    
    • This bypasses the need to unlock the Guardian Gauss Cannon from the Guardian Technology Broker, and the subsequent trip to Ram Tah to modify it with the AGZ-Resistance effect.
• Utility Mounts
  
  • Heat Sink Launcher
  • Caustic Sink Launcher
  • Enhanced Xeno Scanner
  • Thargoid Pulse Neutraliser
• Military
  
  • 4D Module Reinforcement Package
  • 2x 4D Hull Reinforcement Package
• Core Internal
  
  • Military Grade Composite
  • 6A Power Plant
  • 6A Thrusters (G5 Dirty + Drag Drive)
  • 5A Frame Shift Drive
  • 5D Life Support
  • 6A Power Distributor
  • 4D Sensors
  • 4C Fuel Tank
• Optional Internal
  
  • 6C Bi-Weave Shield Generator
  • 5D Hull Reinforcement Package
  • 4E Cargo Rack (16 capacity)
  • 2A Auto Field-Maintenance Unit
  • 1A Repair Limpet Controller
  • 1E Research Limpet Controller
  • --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For a total noob in AX stuff (like me), is this any good?

Interested mainly to go help powerful players in killing these motherships, and be there to watch them go boom.

• Can I survive (being a very careful coward) there in this ship?
• What would you experienced people engineer/change in this build to make it more survivable/useful for that task?

thank you!

 

[Mrc_NorthEast]

I watched a streamer on Twitch after the Fdev livestream today, copy this build to his Chieftain. He replaced every module and the hull to match it. It took a little bit of time to get it done.

Then he took it to Titan Indra and did a few bombing runs. He also solo'd two cyclops with it. So the ship build is sound. It is not the way he would build it out, but it works fine as is. Looks like Fdev built it to be an all around, do anything type of AX ship. Which also has a zero rebuy if bought with ARX, that alone could be very useful.

The question is do you have the skill to use it? Brother_Sabathius is the Twitch streamers name, if you want to lookup the vod on twitch from earlier today. He has been killing goids for years. He kills them in Sidewinders for fun.... so he is good, really good in my opinion. Anyway, the pre built ships from Fdev look fit for purpose, but the knowledge and skill to use them are on the pilot. For me I know I could do Titan bombing runs with it, and kill Titan scouts with it. Killing via a team or wing, yes I could do that as well with this ship. But kill interceptors solo, that could be a stretch for me.

So yes you should be able to survive in the above ship. And if bought with ARX, the rebuy will be zero, unless you change the modules then the rebuy will be just for the modules you change.

What would I change: Make the bi weave shield a 4, removing the cargo rack in that slot, and put another 5D hull reinforcement in slot 6. I would also get rid of the size 1 repair limpet and probably move the afmu from a 2A to a 1A. The 2 slot I would then put a cargo rack if needed for some reason, if not another hull or module reinforcement.

What would I engineer: if i had the mats, everything I could, cause it helps, but it is not really needed to get the job done. And with a zero rebuy, it is not that big of a deal. Dying and credits are meaningless with a rebuy of zero. This ship does not have alot of cargo to lose, so all you will lose is time. Just make sure you dock your ship at the closest starport, or a fleet carrier close to where you intend to do any thargoid fighting. So if you die, you respawn at your last docking location.

 

[Doctor Dread]

Thank you so very much, you gave me exactly the info I need

re this:

The question is do you have the skill to use it?

No, not the slightest at the moment. Never messed in anger with Goids here, only running away with refugees.

But I'm triple Elite here, veteran from the day one, know a thing or two... so this "AX beginner friendly" package is just what I need to start learning the ropes for the Thargoids.

Again, thank you!

 

[Mrc_NorthEast]

Cool. Glad to be of help. Congrats on triple Elite. I am 2/3 Elite but still not combat Elite, but Dangerous. Which is why I started messing with goids. They are not all elite, but combat with goids will help my combat rank quicker than other combat.

I did forget one other thing. Unlike exploration or other missions, combat bonds for goid combat do not get 'lost' upon death or destruction of your ship. So going to Spire sites hunting Orthrus at 40mil a pop is a very profitable undertaking, in a group. Same for going to the Titans, the combat bonds accumulate, which is nice, and solo is usually best for Titans.

Enjoy Cmdr

 

[HRDiagram]

Doctor, you have the right attitude.
This ship is definitely aimed at people who want to dip their toes into AX activities AND are sensible about it.

So long as a novice AX pilot (or a tourist, for that matter) is aware that this ship is aimed at reaching the zone in a relatively safe manner, at contributing to a group effort and at giving a fair chance to escape in one piece, should things turn for the worse, then it's a decent ship.

The biggest mistake that a potential buyer could do is thinking that this ship would allow them to get straight into soloing stuff.
Anyone who has played ED for a few hours would know that this is not the case, however I'm thinking of someone who is just starting, and might think that this ship would help overcome a lack of experience. That would lead to a very rude awakening. This ship should come with a disclaimer.

 

[SergMx]

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG9Vrh8S7kA

 

[SergMx]

I watched a streamer on Twitch after the Fdev livestream today, copy this build to his Chieftain. He replaced every module and the hull to match it. It took a little bit of time to get it done.

Then he took it to Titan Indra and did a few bombing runs. He also solo'd two cyclops with it. So the ship build is sound. It is not the way he would build it out, but it works fine as is. Looks like Fdev built it to be an all around, do anything type of AX ship. Which also has a zero rebuy if bought with ARX, that alone could be very useful.

The question is do you have the skill to use it? Brother_Sabathius is the Twitch streamers name, if you want to lookup the vod on twitch from earlier today. He has been killing goids for years. He kills them in Sidewinders for fun.... so he is good, really good in my opinion. Anyway, the pre built ships from Fdev look fit for purpose, but the knowledge and skill to use them are on the pilot. For me I know I could do Titan bombing runs with it, and kill Titan scouts with it. Killing via a team or wing, yes I could do that as well with this ship. But kill interceptors solo, that could be a stretch for me.

So yes you should be able to survive in the above ship. And if bought with ARX, the rebuy will be zero, unless you change the modules then the rebuy will be just for the modules you change.

What would I change: Make the bi weave shield a 4, removing the cargo rack in that slot, and put another 5D hull reinforcement in slot 6. I would also get rid of the size 1 repair limpet and probably move the afmu from a 2A to a 1A. The 2 slot I would then put a cargo rack if needed for some reason, if not another hull or module reinforcement.

What would I engineer: if i had the mats, everything I could, cause it helps, but it is not really needed to get the job done. And with a zero rebuy, it is not that big of a deal. Dying and credits are meaningless with a rebuy of zero. This ship does not have alot of cargo to lose, so all you will lose is time. Just make sure you dock your ship at the closest starport, or a fleet carrier close to where you intend to do any thargoid fighting. So if you die, you respawn at your last docking location.

And that the man from Twitch didn't use faoff ? Maybe the author of the topic has a joystick.

 

[Levitating]

Interested mainly to go help powerful players in killing these motherships, and be there to watch them go boom.

And did you try the ship? Did you see any motherships go boom already?

I am in the same boat. I want to dip my toes into AX but I don't really have the time to go collect the materials or credits to build my own.

 

[nemolomen]

And did you try the ship? Did you see any motherships go boom already?

I am in the same boat. I want to dip my toes into AX but I don't really have the time to go collect the materials or credits to build my own.

Looking at the build above just now for the first time, mind you, while I'm not an expert, I did cut my Elite Dangerous Ship combat teeth against Thargoid scouts in a similar ship.

I generally learned to fight then run away to repair, then turn around and fight some more and then run away to repair, etc...

I also know that some of the commanders I play with now, use similar tactics when attacking Titans, and that game loop would seem to be made that way on purpose to allow for that strategy.

The lasers and the multi cannons are good against scouts and easier to use than the GGCs. Just squeeze the trigger and they go whereas the GGCs require, more or less, precise timing.

So in my opinion, this ship, while also not the way "I" would build it, seems like it would great for starting out slow and building up to more dangerous targets/environments over time.

Modifications I might make depending on what my targets are:

Thargoid Scouts: Leave it as is, what's there is more than adequate, just use the tactics above to run a way and repair then come back and fight some more. And concentrate on one Scout at a time. The others will be attacking you but stay on your target and learn their moves, then you can predict how to land more shots on them and move up to hitting them with the GGCs eventually, which only take 4 or 5 hits on a scout (with the two smalls).

Thargoid Interceptors and AX Combat Zones (AX CZs): Ditch the shield, it has drawbacks. Replace it with as much armor as you can buy/engineer. And learn how to not take damage from the Interceptors.

Thargoid Hunters: No clue, I've only ever been killed by them and never fought back effectively.

Thargoid Titan: I could go either way on the shield here, but I generally tend to fly shield-less AX ships. You could ditch the Enhanced Xeno scanner for a second Caustic Sink, maelstroms are full of caustic.

But please, I'm not an expert, just someone with a bunch of my own experience.

ETA: AND MOST IMPORTANTLY - !!!DON'T FORGET YOUR LIMPETS!!! - Fill your cargo bay BEFORE you leave port.

 

[SergMx]

Thargoid Interceptors and AX Combat Zones (AX CZs): Ditch the shield, it has drawbacks. Replace it with as much armor as you can buy/engineer. And learn how to not take damage from the Interceptors.

My opinion.
First of all, AX Combat Zones (AX CZs) in space and on the planet are very different things because of the swarm.
Secondly as you write, learn to dodge. If you can do this, the shield will only help you, the only big disadvantage of the shield is the heating of the ship at the breakdown of the shield (it is charged and generates heat) otherwise the shield only helps from the swarm, well phase damage cannon can be avoided.

( I'm not an expert in AX either and don't know cold orbit tactics )

 

[Ghastous]

• Hardpoints
  
  • 2x 3C Gimballed Enhanced AX Multi-Cannon
  • Guardian Nanite Torpedo Pylon
  • 1E Gimballed Beam Laser
  • 2x Small Guardian Gauss Cannon with Anti-Guardian Resistance
    
    • This bypasses the need to unlock the Guardian Gauss Cannon from the Guardian Technology Broker, and the subsequent trip to Ram Tah to modify it with the AGZ-Resistance effect.
• Utility Mounts
  
  • Heat Sink Launcher
  • Caustic Sink Launcher
  • Enhanced Xeno Scanner
  • Thargoid Pulse Neutraliser
• Military
  
  • 4D Module Reinforcement Package
  • 2x 4D Hull Reinforcement Package
• Core Internal
  
  • Military Grade Composite
  • 6A Power Plant
  • 6A Thrusters (G5 Dirty + Drag Drive)
  • 5A Frame Shift Drive
  • 5D Life Support
  • 6A Power Distributor
  • 4D Sensors
  • 4C Fuel Tank
• Optional Internal
  
  • 6C Bi-Weave Shield Generator
  • 5D Hull Reinforcement Package
  • 4E Cargo Rack (16 capacity)
  • 2A Auto Field-Maintenance Unit
  • 1A Repair Limpet Controller
  • 1E Research Limpet Controller
  • --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For a total noob in AX stuff (like me), is this any good?

Interested mainly to go help powerful players in killing these motherships, and be there to watch them go boom.

• Can I survive (being a very careful coward) there in this ship?
• What would you experienced people engineer/change in this build to make it more survivable/useful for that task?

thank you!

Did you try out the Ship? if so what was it like

 

[Doctor Dread]

Did you try out the Ship? if so what was it like

Yes I have.

It's quite OK for what it was intended - to be a simple introductory ship for absolute AX noobs.

I've used it to test this and that, sucked everywhere (me, not the ship) quickly realized it needs different, specialized builds for various stuff etc, but it served it's purpose - gave me that first peek into AX part of the game.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

Interested mainly to go help powerful players in killing these motherships, and be there to watch them go boom.

• Can I survive (being a very careful coward) there in this ship?
• What would you experienced people engineer/change in this build to make it more survivable/useful for that task?

In general the pre-built Alliance Chieftain is an absolutely dreadful mix of attempting to do at least three different things at once—although for your case of attacking a Titan it covers at least the basics, albeit with modest damage at best. In terms of survival around a Titan, maintaining speed will work in its favour, but it has a severe lack of cooling options:

• The Power plant needs some engineering to lower its heat; I have not checked how much power that loadout can sacrifice, but if it can get away with some grade of Low Emissions then it should. Higher grades of Low Emissions with Monstered are better than lower grades with Thermal Spread. Otherwise, if the power needs are simply too much for that, it will have to be Armoured 5 with Thermal Spread.
• One Heat sink is very few; normally a Chieftain would sacrifice the Xeno Scanner for this, but that would prevent using the Multi-cannons on Interceptor petals. This is the curse of doing too many different things; normally a Chieftain built for Interceptors would avoid the Scanner by using more Gauss cannons, Azimuth Shard cannons or Azimuth Plasma chargers—yet if it has to access the Titan then the Azimuth weapons are not possible, and moreover it would be better with Enhanced AX missiles for that task.
• The Beam laser needs Thermal Vent, and it is borderline insane that the pre-built product lacks it.

Other notes or changes:

• Obvious note about engineering its armour and hull reinforcements.
• Generally, choose its weapons and Power plant to do one thing well.
• The 6 Bi-weave Shield is a good idea around the Titan; I give my Python 2 the Enhanced Low Power and Lo-draw, although unfortunately the Chieftain lacks the utility space for a E-rated Shield booster.
  • If not around the Titan, it would be better without a Shield and with a 5 Repair limpet instead. In that case, the 1 Repair limpet should become another Module reinforcement instead, to increase the absorb chance.
• Frontier made a mistake with the absorb mechanics; the 5 Hull reinforcement and the 4 Module reinforcement should trade places (and classes, of course). Military module slots should only have Hull here!
• The Research limpet is daft; I think no medium Interceptor or Titan combat vessel has a legitimate case for it, and it should become a Module reinforcement, again for more absorb chance. The cargo rack is not even anti-corrosion to hold a Research item safely.

Given what Frontier was attempting to do with it, the Python 2 would have been a better choice! The Chieftain is a great choice for learning an Interceptor duel with a Cyclops, but definitely not if built also to access and attack Titans, and to destroy Scouts, and to collect Research samples.

 

[Ghastous]

In general the pre-built Alliance Chieftain is an absolutely dreadful mix of attempting to do at least three different things at once—although for your case of attacking a Titan it covers at least the basics, albeit with modest damage at best. In terms of survival around a Titan, maintaining speed will work in its favour, but it has a severe lack of cooling options:

• The Power plant needs some engineering to lower its heat; I have not checked how much power that loadout can sacrifice, but if it can get away with some grade of Low Emissions then it should. Higher grades of Low Emissions with Monstered are better than lower grades with Thermal Spread. Otherwise, if the power needs are simply too much for that, it will have to be Armoured 5 with Thermal Spread.
• One Heat sink is very few; normally a Chieftain would sacrifice the Xeno Scanner for this, but that would prevent using the Multi-cannons on Interceptor petals. This is the curse of doing too many different things; normally a Chieftain built for Interceptors would avoid the Scanner by using more Gauss cannons, Azimuth Shard cannons or Azimuth Plasma chargers—yet if it has to access the Titan then the Azimuth weapons are not possible, and moreover it would be better with Enhanced AX missiles for that task.
• The Beam laser needs Thermal Vent, and it is borderline insane that the pre-built product lacks it.

Other notes or changes:

• Obvious note about engineering its armour and hull reinforcements.
• Generally, choose its weapons and Power plant to do one thing well.
• The 6 Bi-weave Shield is a good idea around the Titan; I give my Python 2 the Enhanced Low Power and Lo-draw, although unfortunately the Chieftain lacks the utility space for a E-rated Shield booster.
  • If not around the Titan, it would be better without a Shield and with a 5 Repair limpet instead. In that case, the 1 Repair limpet should become another Module reinforcement instead, to increase the absorb chance.
• Frontier made a mistake with the absorb mechanics; the 5 Hull reinforcement and the 4 Module reinforcement should trade places (and classes, of course). Military module slots should only have Hull here!
• The Research limpet is daft; I think no medium Interceptor or Titan combat vessel has a legitimate case for it, and it should become a Module reinforcement, again for more absorb chance. The cargo rack is not even anti-corrosion to hold a Research item safely.

Given what Frontier was attempting to do with it, the Python 2 would have been a better choice! The Chieftain is a great choice for learning an Interceptor duel with a Cyclops, but definitely not if built also to access and attack Titans, and to destroy Scouts, and to collect Research samples.

Though i understand your points and you are correct i also inderstand why they didnt sell a complete meta build of the ship.

These ships are not intended for the old elite players though for the likes of me ive never dabbled in any goid killing as ive not played in years but for a new player. Example is when you said the power plant needs engineering which i agree but a new players as no clue what engineering as and thus opens up the game play loop so they can get there ship engineerd. These are wat these ships are for. Starting out so earning credits bit by bit and then learning more of the game and improving there ships / buying new and better.

Myself i would have done these better and attached them to a game purchase so you can take a pick of what game starter package you would like but i would not be throwing all the top gear into these that many players ive read complaining about. The Python MK2 aint a brill either but i have that on my other account which is new and it does exactly what i want it to do in res sites it earns me credits.

I might grab this ship myself to dabble in the AX instead of spending millions of credits to fit 1 myself to only get it blown up and then have to keep paying the rebuy bill. For learning i belive this is not bad at all.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

I might grab this ship myself to dabble in the AX instead of spending millions of credits to fit 1 myself to only get it blown up and then have to keep paying the rebuy bill. For learning i belive this is not bad at all.

That seems like the zero insurance feature really needs separating a bit from being stuck with applying to one loadout only—with learning as the goal, it would be great if the Deploy option allowed Commanders also to choose a loadout variant! Imagine deploying it with an Interceptor loadout which has Repair, Flak and more Gauss, then later selling or destroying it and redeploying it with the Titan variant which has Shield, Nanites and Missiles.

As an aside, I made a little guide which covers a first look at a Cyclops very differently than usual, specifically without requiring any engineering or flight skill! It does require Credits though, which is something only the pre-built starship notion can address. Much of the purpose was to show how little construction you can do and how much damage you can neglect to avoid, yet still win a Cyclops battle!

 

[Ghastous]

That seems like the zero insurance feature really needs separating a bit from being stuck with applying to one loadout only—with learning as the goal, it would be great if the Deploy option allowed Commanders also to choose a loadout variant! Imagine deploying it with an Interceptor loadout which has Repair, Flak and more Gauss, then later selling or destroying it and redeploying it with the Titan variant which has Shield, Nanites and Missiles.

As an aside, I made a little guide which covers a first look at a Cyclops very differently than usual, specifically without requiring any engineering or flight skill! It does require Credits though, which is something only the pre-built starship notion can address. Much of the purpose was to show how little construction you can do and how much damage you can neglect to avoid, yet still win a Cyclops battle!

Oh ive already changed a few things around on mine but still it aint going to cost me 5-10mil to rearm again but least with hunting the pesky goids you actually keep the bonds on death so really it aint that bad to get blown up but only if you get blown up and ya aint killed nothing lol

 

[SergMx]

As an aside, I made a little guide which covers a first look at a Cyclops very differently than usual, specifically without requiring any engineering or flight skill!

I have read your manual and just want to ask 1 question. Is it suitable for sport hunting of Cyclops ? When there is only you and him in space ! What did you do before the Thargoid War?

 

[Aleks Zuno]

I have read your manual and just want to ask 1 question. Is it suitable for sport hunting of Cyclops ? When there is only you and him in space ! What did you do before the Thargoid War?

Those weapons did not actually exist before the war started; personally, my first Cyclops kill was out in the Pleiades nebula and using a relatively normal Chieftain with Gauss cannons.

That said, that Python should be able to destroy a single Cyclops—alone it is quite fine, but if you use a Control system to get a Cyclops then mind that Scouts also will arrive. Occasionally, one thing I do now to help new or returning Commanders is to provide a practice battle with a Cyclops by dropping with a cold starship somewhere in a Control system. I await a Cyclops then boost away from it, but maintain vision of its trails in the distance; if the other Commander then drops by me with Nav-lock, I can use a Beam laser to point in the Cyclops direction for a one-versus-one battle. Meanwhile, all Scouts arrive as if to attempt finding me, but they fail and leave due to low heat.

 

[SergMx]

Those weapons did not actually exist before the war started; personally, my first Cyclops kill was out in the Pleiades nebula and using a relatively normal Chieftain with Gauss cannons.

That said, that Python should be able to destroy a single Cyclops—alone it is quite fine, but if you use a Control system to get a Cyclops then mind that Scouts also will arrive. Occasionally, one thing I do now to help new or returning Commanders is to provide a practice battle with a Cyclops by dropping with a cold starship somewhere in a Control system. I await a Cyclops then boost away from it, but maintain vision of its trails in the distance; if the other Commander then drops by me with Nav-lock, I can use a Beam laser to point in the Cyclops direction for a one-versus-one battle. Meanwhile, all Scouts arrive as if to attempt finding me, but they fail and leave due to low heat.

I think you misunderstand me.
Now, you're flying alone to Signal, and there's only one Cyclops. Will you destroy it?
(hint, the swarm is the main problem).

 

[Aleks Zuno]

I think you misunderstand me.
Now, you're flying alone to Signal, and there's only one Cyclops. Will you destroy it?
(hint, the swarm is the main problem).

Yes, of course—did you watch the first Cyclops video (or the full scenario video)?

The idea was to ignore the swarm completely; it will deal damage of course, but the point was that a Python with no engineering can still win.