AX noob here, what's with this build?

Doctor Dread

Doctor Dread
Browsing the forum for "let's start with the Scouts to get acquainted with all this AX thingy" found this build. And I'm a bit confused.

In all the builds I've seen, all of you use human G5 Heavy Duty Deep Plating reinforcements, but this guy slapped all Guardian stuff.

Is this very wrong, or is there an angle I can't see? (besides "I don't want do waste time with grind for G5-ing, this is much quicker")

zezanje PYTHONb.png
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
Doctor Dread said:
Browsing the forum for "let's start with the Scouts to get acquainted with all this AX thingy" found this build. And I'm a bit confused.

In all the builds I've seen, all of you use human G5 Heavy Duty Deep Plating reinforcements, but this guy slapped all Guardian stuff.

Is this very wrong, or is there an angle I can't see? (besides "I don't want do waste time with grind for G5-ing, this is much quicker")

View attachment 393445
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I'm no AX pro, but while i know optimal is a mix of G5 heavy duty and Guardian HRPs, an all-GHRP fit i don't think it's great.
 

oblivionmanman 2476

O
scouts are not a problem realy,ax multis will do it but normal multis will as well,shields help but would rather have hull strengh.you will need the corrosive removal cleaner,stay out of the way of the big star fish they are a different beast.
 

Doctor Dread

Doctor Dread
oblivionmanman 2476 said:
scouts are not a problem realy,ax multis will do it but normal multis will as well,shields help but would rather have hull strengh.you will need the corrosive removal cleaner,stay out of the way of the big star fish they are a different beast.
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Thx, that's already clear to me - besides, I've managed to kill one "big star fish" with scanning, then multing the heart :) ) but in the given build I'm confused with all the Guardian HRPs. For that I ask what's the deal, where he's wrong or genial?
 

oblivionmanman 2476

O
as you know everyone has different ideas,i always build my own and learn by mistakes.and im still flying after many years of this game.and still learning.but i admit my thargoid stuff came to a end after i lost a few pythons and vettes lol.but i had a go.left the trident to them that can,but it wasnt me,good luck.
 

Mrc_NorthEast

Mrc_NorthEast
Doctor Dread said:
In all the builds I've seen, all of you use human G5 Heavy Duty Deep Plating reinforcements, but this guy slapped all Guardian stuff.
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So that looks like a Thargoid pre invasion (Titans) build. For the goids out around asterope.
Guardian Hull or Module reinforcements will 'melt' in the Titan systems or HIP 22460 I believe. So if you are going out to Asterope the guardian hull/module reinforcements will work fine.
If you want to go to the Titans without needing to refit, get the normal hull and module reinforcements

G3 Having Duty/Deep Plating should be fine for the hull modules
I would replace 1 5 slot with a module reinforcement and do the same for 1 4 slot, replace with a module reinforcement. All the rest can be hull reinforcements
edited: spelling
 
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Kira Goto

Kira Goto
Mrc_NorthEast said:
So that looks like a Thargoid pre invasion (Titans) build. For the goids out around asterope.
Guardian Hull or Module reinforcements will 'melt' in the Titan systems or HIP 22460 I believe. So if you are going out to Asterope the guardian hull/module reinforcements will work fine.
If you want to go to the Titans without needing to refit, get the normal hull and module reinforcements

G3 Heaving Duty/Deep Plating should be fine for the hull modules
I would replace 1 5 slot with a module reinforcement and do the same for 1 4 slot, replace with a module reinforcement. All the rest can be hull reinforcements
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Hulls will be fine, everything else melts(unless protection blueprint is applied to basic Guardian weaponry). I assume this build has GHRP to save on engineering them… maybe.
 

Cmdr. Numa

Cmdr. Numa
Doctor Dread said:
Thx, that's already clear to me - besides, I've managed to kill one "big star fish" with scanning, then multing the heart :) ) but in the given build I'm confused with all the Guardian HRPs. For that I ask what's the deal, where he's wrong or genial?
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Guardian HRP are good when you don't want to engineer a whole load of normal HRP. You can see that there is minimal engineering on that build. The FSD and heatsinks come from the tech broker. Guardian HRP are not as good as fully engineered ones and cost power to run, but also add 5% caustic resistance each, which regular ones don't.
 

Shadowsnog

Shadowsnog
as mentioned before the main dichotomy is
engineered hull = better armour
guardian hull = no need to deal with engineering, small caustic resist, costs power

a sort of 'hidden' perk of the guardian ones is that as a power active module it can be restarted during goid lightning, which randomly selects one module to mess with. and during fight rebooted hrp is much better than rebooted thrusters... also if you stack multiple ghrp your caustic resistance might get high enough to absorb caustic in spaces like dead titans remains (and helps with caustic during combat as well)...
just for dealing with scouts either is perfectly fine.
 

SergMx

SergMx
Shadowsnog said:
as mentioned before the main dichotomy is
engineered hull = better armour
guardian hull = no need to deal with engineering, small caustic resist, costs power

a sort of 'hidden' perk of the guardian ones is that as a power active module it can be restarted during goid lightning, which randomly selects one module to mess with. and during fight rebooted hrp is much better than rebooted thrusters... also if you stack multiple ghrp your caustic resistance might get high enough to absorb caustic in spaces like dead titans remains (and helps with caustic during combat as well)...
just for dealing with scouts either is perfectly fine.
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Their main disadvantage is power consumption and it's hard to get a cold build.
Otherwise, they are no worse than human level 5, and they are even lighter and can increase the speed of the ship.
 

Aleks Zuno

Aleks Zuno
Adam_Aster said:
5% + diminishing returns still makes them very much worse than g5 but still not "bad"
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Guardian hull is not worse universally than Heavy duty hull—different starships have different amounts of each which give the optimal result versus Caustic damage, where having fewer total modules will favour Heavy duty hull and having more modules will favour the smallest ones being Guardian hull, to help multiply the effect of the larger modules. Consider also that having Caustic damage resistance increases the value of repairs!

Conversely, something like a shielded vessel will only ever want Heavy duty of course.
 

Adam_Aster

Adam_Aster
Aleks Zuno said:
Guardian hull is not worse universally than Heavy duty hull
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Right, exactly what I was saying. Not worse to use one or 2, but to stack every slot with them, they lose their value due to diminishing returns on the caustic resist %. The most I would put on ANY ship is 3 and that is pushing it. Usually get the ~9.4% caustic resist which is about where you hit diminishing returns to the point of them being not very useful any more compared to standard engineered heavy duties since every other one above 2/3 will only give you 0.5 to 1% more resistance.
 

Northpin

Northpin
Aleks Zuno said:
Guardian hull is not worse universally than Heavy duty hull—different starships have different amounts of each which give the optimal result versus Caustic damage
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Definitely.
I used to fly this CondaGIB (solely in planetary defense AX zones, so easy access to repairs) with 5x GHRP and 2x G5 HRP - it provided really good caustic hull and minimal engineering.
 

SergMx

SergMx
Aleks Zuno said:
Guardian hull is not worse universally than Heavy duty hull—different starships have different amounts of each which give the optimal result versus Caustic damage, where having fewer total modules will favour Heavy duty hull and having more modules will favour the smallest ones being Guardian hull, to help multiply the effect of the larger modules. Consider also that having Caustic damage resistance increases the value of repairs!

Conversely, something like a shielded vessel will only ever want Heavy duty of course.
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Not like that, just take edsy and try it both ways and see the difference.
And what repair cost are we talking about ?
The rhinestones have faster repair, cleaner hull less and less wasted repair droid resource.
 

BetaToaster

B
If you're only engaging Scouts, then there's no need for heat sinks and those should be replaced with caustic sinks. Those are nowadays available at all rescue ships for credits (maybe weren't when that guide was made).
And since
  • it's not clear if caustic resistance even helps caustic sinks absorb more goo (please speak up if you have any data on this!), and
  • your hull is going to take a lot of non-caustic damage while the sinks do their job,
I recommend going with all human HRP. (Assuming you have them. Guardian HRP are still perfectly serviceable if you want to avoid the engineering.)
 
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