Conspiracy theory.

I'm opening this thread in relation to The Buur Pit's penultimate video about his theories on where Elite Dangerous is going and what awaits us until the end of the year. And more specifically to what he says about a possible implementation of a Thargoid "faction" led by D-2 in PowerPlay 2.0.

My theory is that the famous The Club may have had contacts with the Oresrian dynasty. Which was the loser in the civil war they had against the Klaxian dynasty. And maybe the price we have to pay is to act as a bullet shield to weaken the Klaxians. And for the benefits of that agreement in the future.
And the Oresrian will be "welcomed" by the humans led by D-2. Or she would be the one to put humanity in contact with the Oresrians.
As I say, it's a theory of mine, but now, with The Buur Pit's conjectures, I guess it's not as far-fetched as I thought it was. Or is it? HAHAHAHA.

Please, I look forward to your ideas and comments.

And remember .... The Space is dark and full of terrors.
 
The time where the Klaxians as per Premonition could have been introduced has long since past. I think they're still canon...but just from a development point of view, I don't think we're ever going to see them ingame. It would be very tricky to introduce a whole second group of Thargoids and have them be different or interact in any meaningful way, which probably led to Frontier shelving the idea.

Hell, if they wanted to they could just say that the Titan-goids are Klaxians, and the Oresrians were just waiting for us to do the Proteus Wave so they could point to us as a bigger threat and reunite with the Klaxians. The "we see them, we are coming" bit indicates there may be seperate Thargoid groups in some manner. But the narrative is nowhere near the point of ever being able to actually confirm that to any degree.
 
Certainly the way the story has been going ever since the game's release really hasn't suggested any intent from Frontier to explore that split further.

- our methods for communicating with the Thargoids are extremely limited and don't seem to be able to convey anything so complex as a name or a description of their society.
- the Azimuth/INRA storylines repeatedly point out that even "experts" are often fatally wrong about Thargoid capabilities or motivations (and Aegis/Holloway seem to have taken up that role more recently) and most of our information that there even is a split comes in the first instance from pretty dodgy human sources.
- even then, no NPC has even suggested (in-game) that we might be looking at two entirely separate groups of Thargoids, not even one of the "mostly wrong, but" conspiracy theorists.
- the descriptions of Oresrian motivations (even if we assume that the information from the licensed fiction is accurate as opposed to "believed by the speaker") really don't fit with the Thargoids we're currently looking at, especially with the events of the last two years.


I think the most consistent interpretation of the stuff from the fiction combined with what's been seen in-game is:
- every Thargoid we've seen in-game is a Klaxian (the ones fought by INRA in the first war might not be, it's hard to say)
- the Oresrians have probably lied at least a bit to their human contacts about the nature of their Klaxian enemies. (e.g. about which side was the more aggressive)
- the Oresrians executed their "run away and hope humanity distracts the Klaxians" plan long before 3300 and are tens of thousands of LY away by now.
 
First of all, thank you all for your answers.

I know the lore well. And I know that, as you say, it is not confirmed that these two factions exist within the Thragoid species.
But, as I said, it is a theory. Which the narrator, in this case Frontier, can with the help of D-2 make us understand the Oresrian better. And somehow begin to communicate with them. Or even The Club might have come to some kind of agreement.
But that's why I said, from the beginning, that it was a theory. Which Frontier could introduce if they wanted to. For they are the "narrator" of this story.
I like that point of view that Ian Doncaster gives.


Thank you. And remember .... The Space is dark and full of terrors

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
 
The time where the Klaxians as per Premonition could have been introduced has long since past. I think they're still canon...but just from a development point of view, I don't think we're ever going to see them ingame. It would be very tricky to introduce a whole second group of Thargoids and have them be different or interact in any meaningful way, which probably led to Frontier shelving the idea.

Hell, if they wanted to they could just say that the Titan-goids are Klaxians, and the Oresrians were just waiting for us to do the Proteus Wave so they could point to us as a bigger threat and reunite with the Klaxians. The "we see them, we are coming" bit indicates there may be seperate Thargoid groups in some manner. But the narrative is nowhere near the point of ever being able to actually confirm that to any degree.
No, it wouldn't be hard to implement new faction at all. They will probably look the same, and maybe fly worse. The ones we have been fighting have been learning from us and adapting. That's actually a point pointed out in the books. The Thargoids already have identifier markings with the central marking being the main marker for THIS faction of Thargoids. Barnacles have it and spires (which are recent) also have it. All FDEV would have to do to introduce a new faction is just to change the middle logo. Voila! New content!
 
No, it wouldn't be hard to implement new faction at all. They will probably look the same, and maybe fly worse. The ones we have been fighting have been learning from us and adapting. That's actually a point pointed out in the books. The Thargoids already have identifier markings with the central marking being the main marker for THIS faction of Thargoids. Barnacles have it and spires (which are recent) also have it. All FDEV would have to do to introduce a new faction is just to change the middle logo. Voila! New content!
I mean, sure, itd be easy to swap out the decal texture. But I think when people imagine a new alien faction, they're not thinking along the lines of how the LHS 1673 Commune is a different faction to the LHS 2994 Party.

Of course, "technically it fulfils the requirement" might be good enough for Frontier, we can call them "tenuous factions" or something ;)
 
A faction style implementation would be interesting to see. I guess I've kind of been half-heartedly expecting the Guardian AI to just sort of "oh hey there, fighting them bugs are ya?" somehow, but that hasn't happened.

I'm a little tentative on the Powerplay2 thing. Makes me wonder if FDev created stories are going to start winding down if the Azimuth story is coming to a close, and they will rely more on the playerbase shuffling the pieces around the board for stories. Idk.
 
Actually they are. The books are canon as stated by FDEV themselves.
This is from Drew Wagar's discord (#ED General chat, July 2023):

Drew:

Similarly I don't think any of the post-Premonition stuff (eg. Oresrians etc - which was another MB initiative - he talked about the Thargoid civil war a lot to me) was ever developed and put in game - that was definitely killed and ret-conned by the time of the Frontier Expo - but they hadn't told any one that, including me. During the final stages of editing Premonition they asked me to remove all references to the Oresrians... and I said I couldn't without gutting virtually the entire story and re-writing it as the upcoming Thargoid civil war was "kind of the point" of the book... in the end it went through as is, but Fdev never took on the story line. A bunch of quite cool stuff regarding Halsey's visions also hit the cutting room floor about this point . Fdev segued to the Azimuth Saga instead, which was a "cheap and easy" version of "The Club" by another name and the Thargoid civil war was dropped entirely. The story was then handed over to a totally new group of writers who developed the Azimuth Saga and the latest Thargoid war narrative independent of what happened before, but with the occasional nod to bits and pieces like Colonia and Powerplay. And thus, here we are.

Link to the Discord post
 
I would like to point out that those are Drew Wagar's words and opinion not FDEV. The fact that the books are written in a past tense and have events and locations in game makes it hard to retcon without actually saying it got retconned. But so far the events of the books are lining up.
 
The problem with "retcon" or not is that from a player perspective - i.e. someone who doesn't have access to chats with high-up Frontier staff or their NDA-d material - there's really nothing to ... um ... "ret", because none of this made it into the game in the first place. It's more at the level of weird fan knowledge like "the writers considered having Season 3 of the Andromedaries have them fall through a wormhole to 24th century Achenar and even had some episodes drafted, but they eventually decided to go with the Eye of the Needle plot instead after negotiations with Hengist Duval fell through". So it can be really jarring if you're someone like Drew Wagar who does know that it was supposed to be leading up to a climatic duel between Bactrian and Marlin Duval atop the Imperial palace and all the foreshadowing you put into season 2's scripts about how he was really into "the real killer" conspiracies suddenly goes nowhere ... but if you're just watching the show-as-released and enjoying wacky camel hijinks you'd never know.

The original version of "The Club" was an ultra-secret conspiracy of various people. So secret, in fact, that their existence was never really hinted at in any in-game material. Sure, there were clearly conspiracies going on, but nothing that would require them all to be coordinated by the same shadowy group (and indeed the version shown in Premonition who were behind everything ... including things which really didn't need to be explained as the actions of a mysterious conspiracy ... in some ways seemed more of a "yeah, they were there all along" retcon of what had happened so far in game)

Similarly with the Thargoid factions. The "use human space to cover their escape" option was looking geographically implausible long before Premonition came out, and even on a more metaphorical level it's unclear why the Klaxians would stop to fight us long enough to let their actual target get away.

By the time in late 2017 when Frontier were definitely realising that "developing features" was going to take way longer than they originally thought ... well, even the much simpler and less complicated-plot-heavy Thargoid war we've currently got has been running pretty slowly to let the actual code catch up so that all the interesting stuff can happen in-game rather than the Titans being replaced by debris fields one Thursday with a Galnet article saying "after a heroic attack by Admiral Tanner's personal squadron, Taranis has been destroyed". And that's then required increasingly bizarre excuses for the Federal election process to stop Winters taking office until Powerplay is ready, etc. [1]

So given just how little of their plans they'd actually revealed ... the next writing team taking things in a different but still apparently compatible direction was really easy. And if the next team to pick up the plot wants to go back to some of the earlier stuff ...
- there's still potential for the Oresrians / Klaxians (whichever we don't currently see) to show up in some form with plenty of reasons why the earlier out-of-game sources were misunderstanding/deliberately lying for personal gain/etc.
- the Club can certainly stick around in a slightly reduced but still dangerous form as a conspiracy of Federal/Sirius corporate executives attempting to grow their military empires, but not behind absolutely everything; Imperial politics, Azimuth, the Consortium, etc. can all involve different competing conspiracies. Turning "well, it's the Club so we obviously oppose it" into "well, it's the Club, but they are fighting the Consortium on this one" is potentially very interesting
- Halsey may find it politically savvy to keep quiet about her visions nowadays, and Gan Romero's body may never be found, but the writing team could pick that up again any time. Well, any time that the development/art side of the team has had a good long lead-up to implement something cool for it to lead to, anyway!
- there's lots of other hooks to pick up on too: what were the League of Reparations really up to? will we ever find out more about the Dredger clans? is Winters stalling because the Winking Cat has stolen the Great Seal of the Federation so she can't be inaugurated, and both parties agree it'd be way too embarrassing if that news got out?


[1] I'm definitely coming from a perspective here where the Azimuth/NMLA storylines, precisely because they used existing in-game features (but creatively!) and therefore didn't have to wait too much for the rest of the team while they worked on Odyssey/post-Odyssey fixes, were I think the most solid era of Elite Dangerous storytelling in terms of "using Elite Dangerous to tell a story" (if you preferred some other thing for "story told in the Elite Dangerous setting", sure, we all have our personal favourites). I don't think it's entirely surprising that - like many of the things Frontier thought sounded cool in 2013 - actually implementing them into a game hasn't always turned out to work that way, and therefore some plans for future plot have changed to fit with "what can we actually do on-screen?".
 
I don't know about conspiracy theories, but clearly the current CG was invented by the Thargoids to distract us from destroying them.
If this CG had been invented by humans, the materials would probably have been delivered to the planet instead of the station.
 
I don't know about conspiracy theories, but clearly the current CG was invented by the Thargoids to distract us from destroying them.
If this CG had been invented by humans, the materials would probably have been delivered to the planet instead of the station.
Unfortunately the Thargoids stole the secret of flying in planetary atmospheres from members of the pilots federation, or maybe it is the pilots federation hiding it from us commanders.
 
Back
Top Bottom