No Single Player Offline Mode then? [Part 2]

[Greyshadow]

Wrong analogy IMHO (yes i realise yours was a real story).
You go into a restaurant because they had Bean Burger on the menu, sit down and order nibbles and drinks. The chef takes your order of one Bean Burger and one Beef Burger.
You are told after a wait that actually they had sold out of Bean Burger earlier in the day and whilst they had hoped to get more in in the mean time it was just too late really.

Angry you ask for a refund on what you have had already, the nibbles and drinks. You could STILL have something else, but you CHOOSE not too. Your choices are yours and I for one will not try to undermine them, but I am afraid the only error here was in poor communication.

Frontier have admitted that very mistake and have offered refunds to the unfortunate few who will not be able to play at all. For the rest who CHOOSE not to have the Online game, then that's a shame, would like you to hang around, but standing outside and waving placards around is really churlish.

Yeah easy for me right, I had little interest in the Offline mode at all anyway and that's despite travelling a LOT. ut that's just me... and yes I am hoping the same does not happen to the planned expansions, but then i would likely ask for a refund on the Expansion Pass piece IF that ever transpired.

But I bought into the vision of David Braben's ONLINE Elite and all the dynamic changing stuff with inserted events and that as far as I understood it was THe Product, the Offline was an add-on.

Its disappointing for those affected by this decision, but I am a little perplexed at some of the Internet-warrior going s on here sometimes over it, when said people are perfectly capable of playing the online version and are ultimately getting the Product they agreed to BACK, just with a mode less but other items added, lest we forget the items that weren't originally in the KS but have since been added.

Personally I feel its a shame that FD have failed to communicate this to the DDF (though i assume that was to avoid a leak before any official statement and no, I am not in the DDF) or that FD have learned from previous poorly communicational issues.

I would like to add to this and counter it. We as buyers were not given a choice and anyone can get free internet at a library or internet cafe and thats not the point.. We ordered ED (The bean burger) which comes with lettuce tomato and cheese. They bring me the bean burger and it has no lettuce cheese and is under cooked. Its still a bean burger but not made properly and missing ingredients that should be there. I tell the waiter this is unacceptable. The waiter takes it back and brings me another one. This one is also missing lettuce and cheese. and is overcooked. Waiter tells me the lettuce and cheese have not been included because it spoiled the taste for people. (They have always been there before and the menu still has them listed on the menu including this) and the burger was under and over cooked because the chef was new. I then lodge my complaint and get my money back. The restaurant then tells me well we are sorry but this was our choice not to include the ingredientswe are not giving you your money back plus you already took a bite out of the burger.

I am sorry this is not the way the world works. If you are not satisfied with the end product you get a refund simple as that. All FD has to do is credit back 50 Dollars for the retail game and keep the 25 dollars for the fact that we "Played the Beta" Saying if you played the Beta you do not get your credit back is absolutely horrible. The only reason they will not do this is probably because they got an alarming amount of refund requests "legitimate ones" and don't want to fork out the cash.

I have never seen a development company handle a situation worse then this then FD. If they kept the 25 dollars, or the 75 dollars for premium beta and crediting back retail price of the game still leaves FD ahead. I would be completely happy with this. I took part in the beta, not satisfied with the retail product so I decided I don't want it. I lose 25 dollars and don't have a game that is sitting there not being played. Can someone tell me why they are not doing that instead of just saying no for backers who have played?

P.S I would like to add for myself I bought ED for both the Online and offline aspect and I will still be able to play regardless. Not very well if things don't improve. I do however think that this whole situation is wrong, could have been avoided and handled better. And even though I may or may not play ED I know for a fact I will never buy another FD product again because of the way this was handled.

 

[Caenan]

Just another EVE Online

The cancellation of the Offline mode to me means simply one thing:

This turned into a poor EVE Online clone of a game, that will defy everything ELITE was to me since I first played it way back when on the Commodore 64....

Next up: Monthly Subscription Fees - Just wait and see.

Yes, I bought access to the Beta, and I have even logged in and spent perhaps 2 hours on the game, but I was looking forward to the Game experience I last enjoyed when playing Frontier on my Amiga... now this.

I think I will go Star Citizen, at least Chris Roberts never claimed something only to cancel the most important part to all "old-timers" like myself in the last possible minute.

Shame on you Frontier, my limited Elite 25th Anniversay t-shirt, one of only 2 made that I won... I will no longer wear with pride, but with SHAME!

 

[Adept]

Despite the fact that i'm angry I don't like to see someone ruin the fun of others at the premiere event

I hope nobody is that vindicatively stupid, but there are even political movements motivated by things like that, so...

Let's hope for the best.

 

[WeirdWizard]

The petition thread was mine, and im disgusted firstly at those that cant read and decided to turn it into a slanging match, it was supposed to be a petition count. But here is a proper petition for anyone to sign if they wish HERE

I've been growing steadily more disgusted with Frontier and these forums for days now. Good work with the petition it seems we are going to need to apply every bit of pressure we can as Frontier digs its heals in. Remember you can also lodge a complaint with the Industry regulator http://www.videostandards.org.uk/VSC/ The Video Standards Agency based on rule 3 of their code of practice "Members will have a duty when dealing with their customers to trade legally, honestly, decently and truthfully."

 

[Adept]

Ok so a DOH moment here, why not provide an archive of the server on release so everyone can play in an offline enviroment then?!

Have you listened at all? Because it would blow up all data security on the whole game. There is no way they can do that while the game is actually running. Shees...

 

[jhondidfool]

The cancellation of the Offline mode to me means simply one thing:

This turned into a poor EVE Online clone of a game, that will defy everything ELITE was to me since I first played it way back when on the Commodore 64....

Next up: Monthly Subscription Fees - Just wait and see.

Yes, I bought access to the Beta, and I have even logged in and spent perhaps 2 hours on the game, but I was looking forward to the Game experience I last enjoyed when playing Frontier on my Amiga... now this.

I think I will go Star Citizen, at least Chris Roberts never claimed something only to cancel the most important part to all "old-timers" like myself in the last possible minute.

Shame on you Frontier, my limited Elite 25th Anniversay t-shirt, one of only 2 made that I won... I will no longer wear with pride, but with SHAME!

In KS SC claimed it would not be a point-and-click game. If you use mouse and gimballed weapons that's exactly what it is. CR has broken far more many promises than DB.

 

[SuBSynk]

I hope nobody is that vindicatively stupid, but there are even political movements motivated by things like that, so...

Let's hope for the best.

Yea would be pretty interesting to see how a few placard waving/ trouble causers would be received by a large fan base all excited to be at the event and by the sound of things fresh from the pub...

 

[Adept]

Linux is open source and it's one of the most secure operating systems out there.

In fact it's security through obscurity that's a hacker's wet dream.

As for Frontier's precious "secrets of the galaxy", just use a different seed for the private servers, problem solved.

No it's not. There is a ton of hand tweaking in the galaxy. All that would go haywire.

 

[Alf]

I have setup a petition to FD to re instate the offline mode or at least shortly after release, it IS possible to have the mode hence we have been using it in BETA, obviosly some features wont work such as comms BUT all previous Eltes were offline and great so why cant this version be. An offline version will be different but still great.

Please if you agree sign this petition

Additionally please feel free to pass the link around

I think it's too late for that. The correct way to handle this would have been to be an open as possible as early as possible. If they couldn't make offline work, which seems silly to even type considering I played the original elite on a BBC, refund everyone who was unhappy immediately and do a kickstarter for an offline version for those interested.

The trust has been lost now and will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to regain.

Once my refund has gone through I certainly will have no interest in this community that has members who seem to react negatively to what seems like basic common sense and decency. Also the fact that they clearly pre-planned this announcement while not having a clearly defined refund policy that makes logical sense and corresponds with the law of the land is a further example of giving the matter little thought. On top of all that you have numerous examples of advertised features that could be seen by some as knowingly giving misleading statements with intent.

The whole thing is a trainwreck and the delay in sorting it out is making it worse.

 

[Silanda]

He is a contract lawyer versed in English law. I'll ask him tomorrow at the party I being "Forced" to attend in Camden (the joke here is the one forcing is an incredibly lovely lady I could never say no to), send me a PM reminding me please.

Will do.

 

[Riandor]

I would like to add to this and counter it. We as buyers were not given a choice and anyone can get free internet at a library or internet cafe and thats not the point.. We ordered ED (The bean burger) which comes with lettuce tomato and cheese. They bring me the bean burger and it has no lettuce cheese and is under cooked. Its still a bean burger but not made properly and missing ingredients that should be there. I tell the waiter this is unacceptable. The waiter takes it back and brings me another one. This one is also missing lettuce and cheese. and is overcooked. Waiter tells me the lettuce and cheese have not been included because it spoiled the taste for people. (They have always been there before and the menu still has them listed on the menu including this) and the burger was under and over cooked because the chef was new. I then lodge my complaint and get my money back. The restaurant then tells me well we are sorry but this was our choice not to include the ingredientswe are not giving you your money back plus you already took a bite out of the burger.

I am sorry this is not the way the world works. If you are not satisfied with the end product you get a refund simple as that. All FD has to do is credit back 50 Dollars for the retail game and keep the 25 dollars for the fact that we "Played the Beta" Saying if you played the Beta you do not get your credit back is absolutely horrible. The only reason they will not do this is probably because they got an alarming amount of refund requests "legitimate ones" and don't want to fork out the cash.

I have never seen a development company handle a situation worse then this then FD. If they kept the 25 dollars, or the 75 dollars for premium beta and crediting back retail price of the game still leaves FD ahead. I would be completely happy with this. I took part in the beta, not satisfied with the retail product so I decided I don't want it. I lose 25 dollars and don't have a game that is sitting there not being played. Can someone tell me why they are not doing that instead of just saying no for backers who have played?

Ah but you have ordered the concept of a Bean Burger, hopefully with several trimmings, but chef is still trying to get it all to work, so you know, subject to change.

Well burgers and beans aside the key difference is finished product vs description of a product still in flux. I have to say I DO agree with the asking for a refund on the value of the finished product if it is not something you now want, but losing the value of the BETA. That at least makes sense.

Though those of you with Internet connections now up in arms I feel are being a little over precious, over what was always only ever a side feature.

 

[EbolaConundrum]

Scenario to help some people understand why I have an issue with being forced to always play in the online the evolving universe;

I carefully select a cargo for a target system I know is offering a good price for it in one of my rare play sessions when I have a moment between work and looking after my family. I fly it there but before i can sell get called away. So I quit the game, I don’t get time to play again for another week and when I do I find the price my cargo will now fetch is much lower because in that week the market has become saturated in the system I’m in or maybe the system has changed hands and is no longer politically safe for me.

This has all happened over the course of a week or so and if you can play every day and can tie up loose ends when you quit rather than being called away urgently then this is fine. If you’re lucky to find a couple of hours to play every week or two and might have to quit in a hurry to help with a todler tantrum this is awful.

Does that help anyone understand why the evolving galaxy being changed by everyone else’s actions may not be a great thing for those who can only play infrequently? It’s the reason I avoid MMO games and in some ways while not an MMO on-line only, evolving universe only Elite will be worse.

 

[WeirdWizard]

Yea would be pretty interesting to see how a few placard waving/ trouble causers would be received by a large fan base all excited to be at the event and by the sound of things fresh from the pub...

Yeah we wouldn't want anyone to exercise their right to peaceful protest now would we.

(Please note due to a previous warning for making a joke I am obliged to state clearly and unequivocally that I do not condone, endorse or encourage any action of any kind towards Frontier Developments or their little party)

 

[Bewilderbeest]

The whole thing is a trainwreck and the delay in sorting it out is making it worse.

The trouble with this analogy is that only a fraction of the train has become wrecked. A better analogy would be that the last carriage on the train has been disconnected, and there's an incredible din coming from those passengers being left behind. Those of us still on board for the journey are carrying on our games of whist and backgammon, and reading the newspaper.

 

[megaman]

Unfortunately not - but it comes with the territory sometimes.

Michael

its a shame that it seems to be a trend nowadays i don't understand what people are trying to achieve with issuing treads

 

[Alf]

Funny, seems to be that you're responding to me.

 

[Riandor]

Next up: Monthly Subscription Fees - Just wait and see.

I think I will go Star Citizen, at least Chris Roberts never claimed something only to cancel the most important part to all "old-timers" like myself in the last possible minute.

Freelancer... cough...

I am sorry but the ENTIRE games industry is filled with grand ideas that ultimately never quite pay off as hoped and Star Citizen is a LOOOONG way off delivering what they have supposedly promised.

And as for Subscriptions, please.

 

[SuBSynk]

Yeah we wouldn't want anyone to exercise their right to peaceful protest now would we.

(Please note due to a previous warning for making a joke I am obliged to state clearly and unequivocally that I do not condone, endorse or encourage any action of any kind towards Frontier Developments or their little party)

Hey you can't account for drunken peoples behavior is all i'm saying.

Mob mentality etc also it depends what they had on their placards if offensive i'd probs be "that" drunken guy stealing said placard and destroying it.

That's why i A don't get drunk and B won't be going

 

[Shoklar]

Looking at some of these posts makes me wonder why they backed Elite: Dangerous at all! Given the "cut my nose off to spite my face." attitudes. Backing for 'just' offline mode, really. Hard to prove that one, since to me it looks more like "Ah, I've found the mistake we're looking for, let's bleed it dry and make a scene." Since Michael has taken time out to answer many questions and this still persists without closure by the moderators.

Shok.

 

[Skizomeuh]

Scenario to help some people understand why I have an issue with being forced to always play in the online the evolving universe;

I carefully select a cargo for a target system I know is offering a good price for it in one of my rare play sessions when I have a moment between work and looking after my family. I fly it there but before i can sell get called away. So I quit the game, I don’t get time to play again for another week and when I do I find the price my cargo will now fetch is much lower because in that week the market has become saturated in the system I’m in or maybe the system has changed hands and is no longer politically safe for me

OR it can be total inverse, you could find yourself in a station where your cargo has invaluable price because of shortcomings, or find that there's a mission paying good price for it, or find for policital reasons the goods became illegal and then, the local blackmarket could give you many credits for your cargo...

Evolving won't put you necessarily down the road.