Open-Only in PP2.0?

I've just noticed most people who are against open only powerplay do not, in fact, play powerplay
Well as someone who does do PP, albeit im a small fish, my objection to Open only PP is folks being forced into that mode, its our choice how we play.
For haulers like me Open really makes no difference as i did PP in that mode and never saw a sausage.
As long as i can continue doing my contributions in Mobius im happy.
The chances PP2 is Open only are pretty much non existent.

O7
 
Which is the major turnoff for PowerPlay 1.0 in my opinion, and one of the major attractions of 2.0: losing much of a player’s progression anytime they got sick, took a vacation, had to deal with a crisis at home, wanted a break from the monotony of the old PowerPlay mechanics, wanted to try a new game, or whatever. Like most players, I already have a job, and I don’t need another.
The only one thing that breaks monotony in Elite are the other players 🤷‍♂️ every jump, you never know what is going to happen.
 
The only one thing that breaks monotony in Elite are the other players 🤷‍♂️ every jump, you never know what is going to happen.
Only in small doses.

In large doses, aggressive antagonists are an aggravating annoyance. Doubly so under the current paradigm, because it's all but guaranteed that there's no point in fighting back. You're carrying all the risk, and won't gain any reward to do so, while your opponent has zero risk, and is rewarded with your destruction.
 
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Oh for crying out loud!

A small (but loud) crew, starved of victims, is pushing for everybody to be thrown into Open Only, to serve as fodder for their murderboats. For their hawhaw. Their fun.

That's all there is to all this thread.
If it's a small company, eventually they will all get on the same blacklist and that list will be distributed to everyone.
 
In large doses, aggressive antagonists are an aggravating annoyance. Doubly so under the current paradigm, because it's all but guaranteed that there's no point in fighting back. You're carrying all the risk, and won't gain any reward to do so, while your opponent has zero risk, and is rewarded with your destruction.
But if you're uMMing an enemy system, and some one comes after you... you'll be very likely flying a combat ship, so fighting back might be part of the "plan".

The other way around, if you're uMMing and an enemy hauler drops in... you can take his/her scalp and bring it to your HQ.

If you're the hauler and some one from enemy powers comes after you, the outcome will very likely depends on the situation/ship etc.
 
But if you're uMMing an enemy system, and some one comes after you... you'll be very likely flying a combat ship, so fighting back might be part of the "plan".

The other way around, if you're uMMing and an enemy hauler drops in... you can take his/her scalp and bring it to your HQ.

Which is why I think that Powerplay Open Only will not result in more fun PvP, but more frustration for those who enjoy PvP.

Under the current paradigm, especially under Powerplay, it's highly likely that in the scenario you're describing, both sides will be operating under the same unofficial rules. We've opted in twice: first to Powerplay, then to Open. They're not likely to take advantage of logging in and out to avoid PvP, let alone try to manipulate the instancing algorithm.

Based on past experiences in other mixed PvP/PvE environments, both scenarios you describe will likely result in at least one party logging out at the merest hint of being killed in PvP. Doubly so if PvP remains an ineffective way of advancing your own power, rather than simply slowing down an opposing power's agenda. And instancing manipulation is simply going to make the game more unpleasant for everyone one involved.

Don't get me wrong, I've long said that efficiency is the enemy of fun in any game, and I have no problems with anyone sacrificing efficiency to have fun. I do it all the time... though oddly, a lot of what I consider fun is also more effective compared to common grinding strategies. ;) Under the current Powerplay paradigm, I'm not likely to ever bother with combat against a combat specced PvP ship, primarily because I don't consider that kind of grinding battle of attrition to be fun. The fact that what I could gain by winning the battle, vs what I could accomplish during the same amount of time, is a secondary factor.

Whether I would do that in Powerplay 2.0 ultimately depends upon its mechanics. The best-case scenario to me would that Powerplay becomes not a contest of merit hauling vs combat farming, but a contest of mission running. Combat between two ships specced for mission running would not be a grinding battle of attrition, and thus could be a lot of fun, regardless of outcome.

Whether it'll be effective is another matter entirely, but that wouldn't matter to me. Under the current tri-mode paradigm, it's highly likely that the other player will feel like I do, and operate under the same unwritten rules I do. If they didn't feel the same way, why would they be in Open in the first place?

Under an Open Only paradigm, though? The players currently in Solo/PG, for whatever reason, won't feel the same way I do about this scenario. They're going to use a variety of unsportsmanlike tactics to avoid that scenario, and I would find that to be extremely annoying. Furthermore, any attempt to police that behavior by Frontier would be a waste of time, money, and most importantly make the game much less fun.

The tri-mode system accomplishes something I considered to be impossible: a mixed PvP/PvE environment where an significant majority of players voluntariy choose to play in it, and the ugly behavior common in other games is a relatively rare occurance. And Frontier managed to do this without a massive team of in-game moderators to police player behaviour, and oppressive game rules that are far more likely to ruin the ingame experience of the innocent than suppress the actual problem. It's a social solution to what is ultimately a social problem, and it works brilliantly in my opinion.

YMMV
 
Which is why I think that Powerplay Open Only will not result in more fun PvP, but more frustration for those who enjoy PvP.
I don't think so, there shall be more "active" hot-spots for potential PvP, offering a broader range of situation vs. the current environment where the bulk of organic PvP happens at CGs, and not that much in those rare situations where powers or player factions are clashing one against the other. As a further consequence IMHO the current hot-spots [where most of random seal-clubbing also happens] would be also relieved, because PvPers camping in those systems (Shinrarta, Deciat, HIP 97950 etc.) will very likely move out.

Under the current paradigm, especially under Powerplay, it's highly likely that in the scenario you're describing, both sides will be operating under the same unofficial rules. We've opted in twice: first to Powerplay, then to Open. They're not likely to take advantage of logging in and out to avoid PvP, let alone try to manipulate the instancing algorithm.

Based on past experiences in other mixed PvP/PvE environments, both scenarios you describe will likely result in at least one party logging out at the merest hint of being killed in PvP. Doubly so if PvP remains an ineffective way of advancing your own power, rather than simply slowing down an opposing power's agenda. And instancing manipulation is simply going to make the game more unpleasant for everyone one involved.

Don't get me wrong, I've long said that efficiency is the enemy of fun in any game, and I have no problems with anyone sacrificing efficiency to have fun. I do it all the time... though oddly, a lot of what I consider fun is also more effective compared to common grinding strategies. ;) Under the current Powerplay paradigm, I'm not likely to ever bother with combat against a combat specced PvP ship, primarily because I don't consider that kind of grinding battle of attrition to be fun. The fact that what I could gain by winning the battle, vs what I could accomplish during the same amount of time, is a secondary factor.
Accepting of being destroyed by an enemy, as well as being ready to destroy an enemy, are the fundamental premises to engage in powerplay... then if current powerplay scenarios have been flattened to flawlessly repetitive "grinding NPC kills/hauling tons of stuff from A to B" is a consequence of the presence of the other-than-open-only game modes. So that's why removing the powerplay from those other-than-open-only game modes appears to be a solution from our point of view.

Whether I would do that in Powerplay 2.0 ultimately depends upon its mechanics. The best-case scenario to me would that Powerplay becomes not a contest of merit hauling vs combat farming, but a contest of mission running. Combat between two ships specced for mission running would not be a grinding battle of attrition, and thus could be a lot of fun, regardless of outcome.

Whether it'll be effective is another matter entirely, but that wouldn't matter to me. Under the current tri-mode paradigm, it's highly likely that the other player will feel like I do, and operate under the same unwritten rules I do. If they didn't feel the same way, why would they be in Open in the first place?
PP 2.0 will be different for sure... and then given that "accepting of being destroyed by an enemy, as well as being ready to destroy an enemy, are the fundamental premises to engage in powerplay" why play in other-than-open-only game modes?
Under an Open Only paradigm, though? The players currently in Solo/PG, for whatever reason, won't feel the same way I do about this scenario. They're going to use a variety of unsportsmanlike tactics to avoid that scenario, and I would find that to be extremely annoying. Furthermore, any attempt to police that behavior by Frontier would be a waste of time, money, and most importantly make the game much less fun.

The tri-mode system accomplishes something I considered to be impossible: a mixed PvP/PvE environment where an significant majority of players voluntariy choose to play in it, and the ugly behavior common in other games is a relatively rare occurance. And Frontier managed to do this without a massive team of in-game moderators to police player behaviour, and oppressive game rules that are far more likely to ruin the ingame experience of the innocent than suppress the actual problem. It's a social solution to what is ultimately a social problem, and it works brilliantly in my opinion.
Who enjoys PvE has already much more to do in the other-than-open-only game modes than in powerplay (missions & BGS, killing space flowers, exploration, etc.) if these offers the access to the same rewards base, why taking care of powerplay at the end? Also, we'd better consider what's the current FDEV plan to extract money/make profit from the game... because ultimately that couldn't be a function depending from game modes.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Accepting of being destroyed by an enemy, as well as being ready to destroy an enemy, are the fundamental premises to engage in powerplay..
For some, maybe - however Powerplay as it is does not require any player to shoot at anything, so what some consider fact is simply a matter of opinion
PP 2.0 will be different for sure... and then given that "accepting of being destroyed by an enemy, as well as being ready to destroy an enemy, are the fundamental premises to engage in powerplay" why play in other-than-open-only game modes?
What Powerplay 2.0 is (as opposed to what some have imagineered it into being) remains to be seen.
Who enjoys PvE has already much more to do in the other-than-open-only game modes than in powerplay (missions & BGS, killing space flowers, exploration, etc.) if these offers the access to the same rewards base, why taking care of powerplay at the end?
True - noting that, if Powerplay 2.0 were to be made Open only, the Open only proponents would then shift targets to the BGS, CGs, etc.
Also, we'd better consider what's the current FDEV plan to extract money/make profit from the game... because ultimately that couldn't be a function depending from game modes.
Given that Zac told us:
Zac on Frontier Unlocked said:
.... we made the python as a combat ship, we know a lot of players are into combat however Elite dangerous is very much a sort of right yeah "blaze your own trail" so there's a lot of players that don't engage with combat at all and we want to make sure that we're listening to you guys as well and providing content for you, and that is where the type eight is going to come in as a really good trade ship - so we'll talk about some of the key features....
... it seems that combat focused content in general, and PvP in particular, is unlikely to satisfy a significant number of players.
 
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Given that Zac told us:

... it seems that combat focused content in general, and PvP in particular, is unlikely to satisfy a significant number of players.
But in a PP context combat and the threat of destruction is expected either via other players or NPCs. Unless there is an existential NPC threat that envelops all a pledge does then Open will be the next best thing.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
But in a PP context combat and the threat of destruction is expected either via other players or NPCs.
Expected by other players in Open, certainly. Noting previous discussion regarding the threat posed by Powerplay NPCs, not so much when players aren't present.
Unless there is an existential NPC threat that envelops all a pledge does then Open will be the next best thing.
For some, certainly.

For those disinterested in combat it's going to be a bit more than a bit tone deaf of Frontier if the long awaited (since May 2022) major feature overhaul is combat heavy and / or PvP-gated to Open only.
 
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But in a PP context combat and the threat of destruction is expected either via other players or NPCs. Unless there is an existential NPC threat that envelops all a pledge does then Open will be the next best thing.
It seems I've put too many users into the "ignore" bin, anyway I like this reply :love:
 
Accepting of being destroyed by an enemy, as well as being ready to destroy an enemy, are the fundamental premises to engage in powerplay...

Sorry, I disagree, unless you’re defining “enemy” as NPCs. There’s nothing in PowerPlay’s current design that requires PvP combat, and there’s quite a bit of PowerPlay’s current design that encourages avoiding PvP at all costs. You’re adding a completely optional extra to the mix to spice things up, which is why I play in Open as well.

But not everybody likes spicy things, different people have different tolerance levels for spicy food, and there’s always the jerks who think it’s funny to loosen the top of the spice jar so the next person’s meal is ruined. The last group are the ones you definitely want to keep out of the kitchen if you want a restaurant to be successful, as well as allow the rest of your patrons to season their dishes to taste.
 
Expected by other players in Open, certainly. Noting previous discussion regarding the threat posed by Powerplay NPCs, not so much when players aren't present.

For some, certainly.
No, its expected because otherwise, why would an NPC interdict and make its feeble attempt to destroy you? Just like the rest of ED NPCs do their best to blow you up.

Are you suggesting that Powerplay, a feature about explicit eleven way competition has no opposition in solo and PG and that its safer than the regular game which has no explicitly defined enemy?

For those disinterested in combat it's going to be a bit more than a bit tone deaf of Frontier if the long awaited (since May 2022) major feature overhaul is combat heavy and / or PvP-gated to Open only.
Then lets hope the NPCs actually do the job this time round.
 
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