Open-Only in PP2.0?

It can be considered to be one, yes. However it's not a bonus that is linked to playing in Open as it is available as a bonus for co-operative play in both multi-player game modes.
If thats the case, why is there no bonus for flying in wings in a potentially dangerous mode (for example either scale up the Open wing bonus or scale down PG), since you'd be then encouraging team v team play?
 
Schrödinger's risk. Which is not at all surprising given the fact that the average instantaneous player population of systems is very nearly zero.
Which in Powerplay is not the case- or that PP makes it much more likely by guiding events (unlike the wider game where locations do that alone).
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
If thats the case, why is there no bonus for flying in wings in a potentially dangerous mode (for example either scale up the Open wing bonus or scale down PG), since you'd be then encouraging team v team play?
Maybe because Frontier realised very early that players can't be trusted to contest encounters that should be contested to gain the reward as players showed themselves to be quite capable of collusion to gain the reward uncontested. Then there's the crucial word "potentially" - there's no guarantee whatsoever that players will encounter a player / wing that actually poses a challenge, noting that players will engineer their ships to reduce the risk to themself to a minimum.
 
Which in turn depends on how widespread Powerplay 2.0 becomes - noting that there are c.20,000 inhabited systems at the moment, and two versions of Open for players with Odyssey to choose from.
Considering organised play will generally centre around fortified and stronghold systems, its not going to be as diffuse as that. From what has been said too re the UI, it is better at telling you whats under attack or growing, you'll know where people are.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Considering organised play will generally centre around fortified and stronghold systems, its not going to be as diffuse as that. From what has been said too re the UI, it is better at telling you whats under attack or growing, you'll know where people are.
Which depends on how much remains organised - noting the apparent decentralisation of Powerplay 2.0. I doubt that the heatmap will differentiate between game modes - so those in Open seeking to oppose others may be looking for ships that aren't in that game mode (or even that Open).
 
Maybe because Frontier realised very early that players can't be trusted to contest encounters that should be contested to gain the reward as players showed themselves to be quite capable of collusion to gain the reward uncontested. Then there's the crucial word "potentially" - there's no guarantee whatsoever that players will encounter a player / wing that actually poses a challenge, noting that players will engineer their ships to reduce the risk to themself to a minimum.
Outside of areas where you have to merit farm, you see vanishingly small amounts of PP NPCs (i.e. the ones interdicting you)- ironically too you'll have the situation where players outnumber hostile pursuing NPCs in PP right now.

I could argue players can't be trusting in PG, given AFK turretboat shenanigans :unsure: its why I want the wing bonus scaled down for PG and kept as it is in Open....because at least then you can contest the bonus it provides.

noting that players will engineer their ships to reduce the risk to themself to a minimum.
And how is that bad? Thats actually playing the game.....
 
Which depends on how much remains organised - noting the apparent decentralisation of Powerplay 2.0. I doubt that the heatmap will differentiate between game modes - so those in Open seeking to oppose others may be looking for ships that aren't in that game mode (or even that Open).
The large groups are not going away any time soon, nor the players habits. What you will have is a replication of early days PP V1 where close in random activity occurs- except in this case it won't be detrimental.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Outside of areas where you have to merit farm, you see vanishingly small amounts of PP NPCs (i.e. the ones interdicting you)- ironically too you'll have the situation where players outnumber hostile pursuing NPCs in PP right now.
In old Powerplay, certainly. Given that the activity set of Powerplay 2.0 seems to have broadened significantly (what has been said gives the impression that it's simply playing the game while pledged) it's likely to change.
I could argue players can't be trusting in PG, given AFK turretboat shenanigans :unsure: its why I want the wing bonus scaled down for PG and kept as it is in Open....because at least then you can contest the bonus it provides.
I'd agree that player's can't be trusted - in any game mode - which is why it is hoped that AFK builds won't prosper in Powerplay 2.0. Healing beams should also be removed.
And how is that bad? Thats actually playing the game.....
It undermines the case for a risk based reward....
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
The large groups are not going away any time soon, nor the players habits. What you will have is a replication of early days PP V1 where close in random activity occurs- except in this case it won't be detrimental.
We'll see what proportion of the Powerplay 2.0 they make up. If it's a high proportion then it could be argued that Powerplay 2.0 will have failed in its apparent aim to attract more players into Powerplay.
 
In old Powerplay, certainly. Given that the activity set of Powerplay 2.0 seems to have broadened significantly (what has been said gives the impression that it's simply playing the game while pledged) it's likely to change.
But you still have hauling races and general traversal which is what I'm talking about. Its these areas and times that are 'empty' and V2 has to fill them.

I'd agree that player's can't be trusted - in any game mode - which is why it is hoped that AFK builds won't prosper in Powerplay 2.0. Healing beams should also be removed.
Its why the changes I propose are sensible ones, because Open allows wings advantage to be broken. Bots were caught in Open, AFK has been caught in open.

It undermines the case for a risk based reward....
ED is about mitigating risk to succeed in your work. If it were not, why do we start with a Sidewinder and allowed to change out modules and swap ships?
 
We'll see what proportion of the Powerplay 2.0 they make up. If it's a high proportion then it could be argued that Powerplay 2.0 will have failed in its apparent aim to attract more players into Powerplay.

Also worth noting: if the aim is to attract more players into Powerplay, then it would be wise to pay attention to what the average player can do or will want to do - not the small highly specialized and experienced PvP crews who hunt them in teams in Open.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
But you still have hauling races and general traversal which is what I'm talking about. Its these areas and times that are 'empty' and V2 has to fill them.
Sounds like a lot of volume to cover in the hope of catching opponents.
Its why the changes I propose are sensible ones, because Open allows wings advantage to be broken. Bots were caught in Open, AFK has been caught in open.
From the "punish those who don't play how they should" perspective, maybe.
ED is about mitigating risk to succeed in your work. If it were not, why do we start with a Sidewinder and allowed to change out modules and swap ships?
Indeed it is - which makes risk bonuses rather inappropriate for those who have engineered it out.
 
We'll see what proportion of the Powerplay 2.0 they make up. If it's a high proportion then it could be argued that Powerplay 2.0 will have failed in its apparent aim to attract more players into Powerplay.
Again, going by what happened with V1 you had people gravitate to groups to gain a bigger picture or join with others.

The point here is groups will always exist- ether new ones or old.
 
Sounds like a lot of volume to cover in the hope of catching opponents.
Thats the point of having marked territory. If its not policed whats the point of having it marked to begin with? In V1 NPCs popped up very rarely and were easily shaken, compared to players who could cross systems and pursue you.

From the "punish those who don't play how they should" perspective, maybe.
How is it punishing? A minute ago you said it was exploited :unsure: and at least other players can potentially stop you.

Indeed it is - which makes risk bonuses rather inappropriate for those who have engineered it out.
Its part of the game and situational- you have variables you control and thats one of them.
 
With less apparent need for strategy it remains to be seen whether any groups that remain or coalesce will be of any great relevance to those not in them.
The strategy will certainly change, but there still is strategy regards focusing effort to either make optimal systems drop or be gained.
 
I'm repeating myself

Don't worry about it. This thread is over 100 pages of repetition.

Neither side will convince the other. Its just a fun place to debate while we wait for PP2 to release... not that release will stop the debate either. The debate will still be going on 10 years from now if the game is still going then.

That's why the other big open thread is called Hotel California - you can never leave. :D
 
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