Open-Only in PP2.0?

[Rubbernuke]

Had to read that a few times to parse it.

I think the only people who really enjoy PP1 right now are those who are happy mindlessly grinding to make numbers go up.

It was a bit lumpy in phrasing.

The people in V1 who engage with it really tolerate its flaws because they enjoy the context the meta strategy layer above it provides.

Its this gap that Open fills because then NPCs are irrelevant as other players bring the unpredictability.

Its also this gap V2 needs to fill.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Indeed - however it's implicit from the fact that it's not an Open only game feaure. They may hope that it spawns a thriving PvP contingent, but they're not forcing it. It will be left up to the players which game mode to engage in it from.

It will be interesting to see how some players react if and when one or more Top 10 CMDRs can never be found in-game - as I don't expect that the Top 10 is a PvP leaderboard.

And without tangible benefits for being in Open (i.e. the weighting) will people risk it, given it (Open) has drawbacks strategically?

 

[Robert Maynard]

And without tangible benefits for being in Open (i.e. the weighting) will people risk it, given it (Open) has drawbacks strategically?

If players need to be bribed to potentially engage in PvP, what does that say about their inclination towards it?

 

[Rubbernuke]

If players need to be bribed to potentially engage in PvP, what does that say about their inclination towards it?

What does it say if you have rewards for anything?

I know you view everything through a certain lens, but its really players looking at Powerplay and going "this mode allows me to win more easily, and I'm rewarded the same"- given that Powerplay has a twin personal and power related aim.

 

[Robert Maynard]

What does it say if you have rewards for anything?

In the case of this game that Frontier are trying to encourage players to engage in an activity, noting that the Cr/hr meta has changed several times over the years.

I know you view everything through a certain lens, but its really players looking at Powerplay and going "this mode allows me to win more easily, and I'm rewarded the same"- given that Powerplay has a twin personal and power related aim.

That may be the case for players who enjoy PvP and ignore their inclination to play among others while affecting mode shared game features, certainly. Those with no desire to engage or be engaged in PvP aren't playing against their inclination.

 

[Dragsham]

Pvp has a bad name.
It's maligned with smears of murder boats and mismatches which is true. Unfortunately.
But that's not what pvp powerplay 2.0 is going to be.
Pvp powerplay as already mentioned is going to be that unpredictable unanticipated aspect that will make those cargo runs spicy!
Whole fleets of opposing sides all in open having a pop at one another over a contested system/asset.
And anyone in open in a cutter who isn't affiliated will pass by almost unnoticed.
An honourable pastime it'll be, as these powers vye for dominance.
I for one will be having a pop that's for sure even though I'm a pirate, having pledged I'll be hunting!
And cos we can't stop em I'm pretty sure gankers will preside too. Though hopefully the 2 sides will pause and "deal" with them.
See its not about just mindless killing. It's about one of the most difficult and joyful experiences in gaming. Dealing with other gamers head on. Ones that follow a set of rules.
Innocents pass by, only those who choose to participate will find someone weapons hot on their six.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Depressing anecdote: I once had the displeasure of flying with a group who had at least a good half dozen players running (as individuals) full 'wings' of Haulers (so each player running 4 ships) during pro Imperial CGs, BGS wars and when fortifying in powerplay (obviously, from a PG).

It was the straw that broke the proverbial camels back for me in relation to this being my 'prime game', as it became readily apparent that any attempt to be competitive/impactful in either of the two areas I really enjoyed was simply out of reach.

Hold on. Each player was running 4 ships?

Well, if there's a will there's a way, and you'll find that in any game with competitive gameplay you'll find people doing similar. Not sure why they were running haulers instead of cutters (or you mean haulers as in hauling ships?)

And you'll find people doing similar in Star Citizen if there is a way to "win" via hauling and you'd find the same in PP2 even if open only if the easiest way to "win" is by hauling. Who cares if the odd one gets interdicted and killed, the rest will most likely get through, and all it costs is a rebuy.

Unfortunately, there are always just those sorts of players once competitive gameplay is a thing.

 

[Wily Rites]

I pity those poor folk who don't seem to experience the immersion side of the game play, for whom only the counting of points and winning, is the reason for playing; Man, they are missing out on the best aspect of such a great game! To be so objectively asside the point is kind of baffling to me, but hey ho, it does take all sorts to make a galaxy.

 

[Rubbernuke]

In the case of this game that Frontier are trying to encourage players to engage in an activity, noting that the Cr/hr meta has changed several times over the years.

That may be the case for players who enjoy PvP and ignore their inclination to play among others while affecting mode shared game features, certainly. Those with no desire to engage or be engaged in PvP aren't playing against their inclination.

So FD bribed people to CGs too?

In the end there has to be an incentive for everything, otherwise why even try anything new.

 

[Robert Maynard]

So FD bribed people to CGs too?

Some seem to have been.

In the end there has to be an incentive for everything, otherwise why even try anything new.

Indeed - noting that some players already know that they have little to no interest in PvP.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Some seem to have been.

Indeed - noting that some players already know that they have little to no interest in PvP.

Which is fine, then they can choose not to try it.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

Hold on. Each player was running 4 ships?

Well, if there's a will there's a way, and you'll find that in any game with competitive gameplay you'll find people doing similar. Not sure why they were running haulers instead of cutters (or you mean haulers as in hauling ships?)

And you'll find people doing similar in Star Citizen if there is a way to "win" via hauling and you'd find the same in PP2 even if open only if the easiest way to "win" is by hauling. Who cares if the odd one gets interdicted and killed, the rest will most likely get through, and all it costs is a rebuy.

Unfortunately, there are always just those sorts of players once competitive gameplay is a thing.

Yep. It was the last time I revisited Elite, and yes as in they were doing the hauling with Cutters. I just shook my head and disconnected. As I said with AFK Turretboats and the other nonsense (including the aforementioned circumvention of risk techniques), it removes any 'competitive' chance for Joe Normal to succeed or make an impact, reducing motivation and then leading to them abandoning something they might have been enjoying (see: the decline of PP in the first six months in player engagement, outside of course, of 'module shopping').

Lighheartedly, it worries me a little that hauling in Eurotruck Simulator 2 requires more attention and engagement from its player for them to succeed than hauling in Elite in its current state.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Which is fine, then they can choose not to try it.

Whether we are offered a bribe to play in Open remains to be seen. As mentioned previously, if it's trivial then many may not engage. If it's at a level that is insulting to players in the other two game modes, in terms of effectively penalising their effects on a mode shared game feature to somewhere close to meaningless, then expect some players to make liberal use of the block feature caring not for what side effects that may have on those who actually want to play in Open.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

So FD bribed people to CGs too?

In the end there has to be an incentive for everything, otherwise why even try anything new.

To be fair, they did try to bribe folk to bring the Emperor's Dawn Storyline back on track by offering better rewards for the rebel faction mid-cg when things weren't going the way they should have done, and it pretty much nearly worked, except for the combined effort of the Imperial PP and PMF Factions staying very dedicatedly on task.

 

[Wily Rites]

I love PvP, I wish there were some better term than PvP as I am not referring only to combat against other players, but that is a small part of it, but I don't love it anywhere near as much as the immersive side of playing in the elite world with its lore and all the experiences that that entails.
This immersion is even better when shared with other folk who are also immersed, less so when shared with folk who are just counting points. I really hope that Powerplay will manage to bring the PvP mindset somewhat closer to the immersion aspect of the game, that really is my greatest hope for this update; I've currently got everything crossed, in the hope that the folks at FDev manage to pull something very magical out of the hat here.

 

[Wily Rites]

I suppose the term is really, open play, as the mode suggests.

 

[Wily Rites]

But then what is PvE in open play? ... Background sim immersion in open, perhaps?

 

[Robert Maynard]

I suppose the term is really, open play, as the mode suggests.

Open play where:

• players may choose to shoot at anything they instance with;
• players may choose to leave the game at any time (possibly subject to a delay);
• players may choose to block any player at any time;
• players with Odyssey may choose to play in either of the Open modes available to them.

 

[Doctor Dread]

This thread should have been moved to Hotel California a hundred pages ago.

 

[Robert Maynard]

But then what is PvE in open play? ... Background sim immersion in open, perhaps?

Attempting to play the game co-operatively among other players - any of whom may choose to shoot at anything they instance with at any time.