Open-Only in PP2.0?

[Agony_Aunt]

How else can you drive a conflict based expansion feature?

Chili cook off!

 

[Robert Maynard]

I'd be careful using metrics like that, seen as most comments reference Open Only Powerplay at the time it was tabled were in favour of it.

Noting that the ship transfer poll was not directly mode related, and noting that Frontier have previously advised that they are "well aware" that the majority of players don't get involved in PvP while at the same time noting that those who prefer PvP tend to be more vocal as a group and, more recently, that "a lot" of players don't engage in combat at all, I doubt that I'd be particularly surprised by the results of an official poll on Powerplay. Also noting the number of zero day accounts that posted in the Flash Topic threads (and that there's no requirement to own the game to create a foum account).

Not that I'd expect an official poll to be conducted again, given the 8 million free copies of the game given away during the Epic promotion (after the ship transfer poll, meaning that some players may have acquired a number of copies each).

 

[Rubbernuke]

And opt-out, which might be a concern for FD if they put loads of effort into it and too many opt-out.

There is a fine balance to be struck, but its not as tricky as it sounds- whats needed is a curve that actually grows with players:

Right now the curve simply plateaus way too early (as in, its practically horizontal in PP)- so in essence its not the low skilled that are not being catered for in Powerplay.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Chili cook off!

Nice.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Chili cook off!

... with the result determined by who is able to actually eat it.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

Well duh. You make PP 2.0 Open Only, then make the NPC's much harder so that hauling in Open becomes impossible for most players, what do you think is going to happen? They will nerf the NPC's, isn't it obvious that's what I was discussing? The players who want NPC's to be much harder, The Open Only PvP players, are going to lose out to the players who want the NPC's to remain exactly as they are. The majority of players who haul don't take part in PvP because they aren't interested in that sort of engagement and difficulty level because it's impossible for a hauler to survive a G5 murderboat attack, so if you make NPC's as difficult as human opponents they won't want that sort of engagement either.

It really doesn't matter that the forum represents less than 1% of the player base, what matters is the make up of the players on the forum, if they are a representative sample of the players in the playerbase then it's a valid sample. So if the majority of players in the forums oppose Open Only PP and more difficult NPC's that probably is also reflected in the non forum using playerbase.

Firstly, you need to stop this assuming anyone on the opposite side of this discussion to you is a 'horrid open only pvp players'.

Secondly, It really does matter if that sample is skewed, which has been discussed several times, it always has been on these forums in terms of the heavy posters.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

Also noting the number of zero day accounts that posted in the Flash Topic threads (and that there's no requirement to own the game to create a foum account).

This is what I'm talking about right here Bob, the insinuation that if it's against the forum consensus, something fishy is going on.

Its unbecoming for a member of a playerbase that tends to think of itself as being more 'on the mature' side.

 

[Robert Maynard]

This is what I'm talking about right here Bob, the insinuation that if it's against the forum consensus, something fishy is going on.

Simply noting an observed fact. Also noting that Frontier had to remove nearly two thousand invalid votes from the ship transfer poll conducted on their store site.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Simply noting an observed fact. Also noting that Frontier had to remove nearly two thousand invalid votes from the ship transfer poll conducted on their store site.

So what about the flash topics or polls?

 

[Robert Maynard]

So what about the flash topics or polls?

Frontier certainly got feedback in their official Flash Topic threads. However Frontier have also stated that they know that players that prefer PvP as a group are more vocal - so I expect that that will have been taken into consideration during any internal discussions over the feedback.

Which polls?

 

[Rubbernuke]

Frontier certainly got feedback in their official Flash Topic threads. However Frontier have also stated that they know that players that prefer PvP as a group are more vocal - so I expect that that will have been taken into consideration during any internal discussions over the feedback.

Which polls?

People who want something speak up when its offered- crazy Also that it was a fair way to speak up against it too...where were the huddled masses?

The polls were OAs (for V1) as well as Burrs for V2. All of them signified wanting things to change.

 

[Robert Maynard]

The polls were OAs (for V1) as well as Burrs for V2. All of them signified wanting things to change.

Self selecting polls on a much larger platform than this, also with no requirement to own the game to vote. Even then, noting that Burr's result was rather different from OA's.

Some certainly want change in relation to existing game features and their pan-modal nature, that has been obvious for over a decade. Whether Frontier will change the game for all players, who bought or backed the game as it is (not as it may become), to satisfy that subset of the player-base remains to be seen.

I would suggest it would be tone deaf, at best, towards those who have no interest in PvP if a newly overhauled base game feature that does not require PvP were to be retrospectively PvP-gated to Open only. YMMV.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Self selecting polls on a much larger platform than this, also with no requirement to own the game to vote. Even then, noting that Burr's result was rather different from OA's.

Some certainly want change in relation to existing game features and their pan-modal nature, that has been obvious for over a decade. Whether Frontier will change the game for all players, who bought or backed the game as it is (not as it may become), to satisfy that subset of the player-base remains to be seen.

I would suggest it would be tone deaf, at best, towards those who have no interest in PvP if a newly overhauled base game feature that does not require PvP were to be retrospectively PvP-gated to Open only. YMMV.

'Self selecting'- how? For example Burr- not the most well known streamer who has an audience not about PvP who has a snap poll not announced anywhere else that shows the status quo is not right in their view. Bear in mind too I was one of three people from Powerplay there- the majority responses in the chat (who voted) were outsiders looking in.

Buurs was indeed different, because as discussed V1 and V2 are different animals. V1 very much was suited to Open, whereas V2 weighting.

I would suggest it would be tone deaf, at best, towards those who have no interest in PvP if a newly overhauled base game feature that does not require PvP

A lot of V2 is designed with PvP in mind- the issue will be will the PvE be enough to balance that out.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

A lot of V2 is designed with PvP in mind- the issue will be will the PvE be enough to balance that out.

Agreed. If the way to succeed in PP continues to require less engagement from the player than a session of Cookie Clicker, its going to struggle.

 

[Robert Maynard]

'Self selecting'- how?

One needs to either already watch the channel or be told about the poll on any of the various means that players and player groups communicate. Only those aware of the poll and bothered to vote in it do so.

A lot of V2 is designed with PvP in mind- the issue will be will the PvE be enough to balance that out.

In mind, certainly, not required in any way from what has been said so far. Much like the rest of the game, i.e. PvP is possible for those inclined to engage in it but not a mandatory component of any in-game feature.

 

[Rubbernuke]

One needs to either already watch the channel or be told about the poll on any of the various means that players and player groups communicate. Only those aware of the poll and bothered to vote in it do so.

The poll was not announced though- it was a random one. Pretty much all of the Powerplay community purposefully avoids YT streamers like this forum does. And since BP audience is not in any shape focused on one thing I'd say its representative of what non partisan players think. But it just illustrates WhiteHaulerMans point- when it shows support its counter to your opinion, but 'unknown numbers' are somehow more illustrative.

In mind, certainly, not required in any way from what has been said so far. Much like the rest of the game, i.e. PvP is possible for those inclined to engage in it but not a mandatory component of any in-game feature.

I quoted this from the FU stream:

....for this star system and at that point essentially the gloves are off, so now it's about also showing why the other power is not a good choice and you basically just get to have a fight with them you as I said gloves off right, so go and kill the other power members go and kill their ships go and stop them doing anything that they're going to do like have an all out battle in that star system that makes you look like the Victor if you equally you can carry on doing what you were doing before as well so let's using the finance thing if you're a trader right, dodge the fights but still show them that you can like trade like crazy in even in this scenario and that will also still contribute towards this.

FD barely talked about PvE- lets hope those NPCs match what FD imagine players doing.....

This also does not include how FD view the Top 10 (and ratings in general) being used for rivals to knock out 'famous' commanders as a driver in PvP....will NPCs do the same? Or that rewards also lower rebuy costs (where the devs mentioned this would lower the cost of participating).

 

[Robert Maynard]

I quoted this from the FU stream:

FD barely talked about PvE- lets hope those NPCs match what FD imagine players doing.....

Indeed - however it's implicit from the fact that it's not an Open only game feaure. They may hope that it spawns a thriving PvP contingent, but they're not forcing it. It will be left up to the players which game mode to engage in it from.

This also does not include how FD view the Top 10 (and ratings in general) being used for rivals to knock out 'famous' commanders as a driver in PvP....will NPCs do the same? Or that rewards also lower rebuy costs (where the devs mentioned this would lower the cost of participating).

It will be interesting to see how some players react if and when one or more Top 10 CMDRs can never be found in-game - as I don't expect that the Top 10 is a PvP leaderboard.

Lowering / removing rebuy costs might well interest some players, as losing a ship would incur less or no rework to recoup the loss.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

... with the result determined by who is able to actually eat it.

You griefer!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

its not the low skilled that are not being catered for in Powerplay.

Had to read that a few times to parse it.

I think the only people who really enjoy PP1 right now are those who are happy mindlessly grinding to make numbers go up.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

I think the only people who really enjoy PP1 right now are those who are happy mindlessly grinding to make numbers go up.

Depressing anecdote: I once had the displeasure of flying with a group who had at least a good half dozen players running (as individuals) full 'wings' of Haulers (so each player running 4 ships) during pro Imperial CGs, BGS wars and when fortifying in powerplay (obviously, from a PG).

It was the straw that broke the proverbial camels back for me in relation to this being my 'prime game', as it became readily apparent that any attempt to be competitive/impactful in either of the two areas I really enjoyed was simply out of reach.