Open-Only in PP2.0?

Mode choice, like ship choice, loadout choice, engineering choice, activity choice, is but one of many choices that may affect a player's game experience or their ability to affect the game.

First define fair when referring to affecting game features affected by PvE actions in a game where other players, and therefore PvP, are an optional extra.
The issue is finding what is a level playing field for PP when everyone chooses what field to play on.

To use the analogy of football: solo is individuals kicking balls into nets on separate pitches, PG is inviting your friends onto your pitch and x4 the score, Open is having you kick balls during a pitch invasion where people do what they like.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
To use the analogy of football: solo is individuals kicking balls into nets on separate pitches, PG is inviting your friends onto your pitch and x4 the score, Open is having you kick balls during a pitch invasion where people do what they like.
To use a different analogy, all players are Curling on the ice. Some players in a different rink brought ice hockey gear....
 
The 'bribes' context comes from :

RM: (emphasis added)


RN:


So very much about modes, I'd have thought.

Given this context (of attempting to draw conclusions about "PvP engagement bribes" from CG rewards.) the rest of the comparison also stands, I think,



Many as in "substantial portion of playerbase" or many as in "literally dozens", though?

In bang-for-buck terms, from either FD's or "open advocates" points of view, and taking account in the former case of the (presumed) equally valid interests of open-avoiders, I think making player combat encounters easier to find and more fun when found for those who enjoy them offers a much better value pospect for developer resource spend.



Any nudge including, I guess, enhancing the experience of these "somethings" for their doers.
Its incentives for tasks, and I view features and events equally. If there were no rewards for CGs, would people still do them? Some would, some wouldn't. The same applies with anything and IMO the same with open.

Its more about making Open strategically count given that you have the most to lose in that mode. It takes away the fun (or renders it pointless) if the outcome is pointless.

Many as in "substantial portion of playerbase" or many as in "literally dozens", though?
How do you know its dozens? From what I have seen via polls its a lot of people.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
But the modes are not equal in process-
It can be argued that the modes are entirely equal in process, i.e. the same PvE actions in all three game modes equally affect mode shared game features - noting that some players may, due to their choices, be impeded by other players in one of the three game modes (and possibly another one depending on the rules of the Private Group).
 
It can be argued that the modes are entirely equal in process, i.e. the same PvE actions in all three game modes equally affect mode shared game features - noting that some players may, due to their choices, be impeded by other players in one of the three game modes (and possibly another one depending on the rules of the Private Group).
The process dealing with other players is different to not having them. For example an all out fight over a system requires strategy and effort while in solo you can simply fly straight in as much as you like.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
The process dealing with other players is different to not having them. For example an all out fight over a system requires strategy and effort while in solo you can simply fly straight in as much as you like.
The means of dealing with other players is arguably irrelevant as those other players are an optional extra that players play among due to choices they make.
 
First define fair

Fair, for the purposes of this discussion, would be for mode choice to have no net impact on rate of influence or merit accumulation.

If we plot out how much many merits/how much influence is made good per player hour per mode, I am almost positive the aspects of the modes that we both agree exist would skew player performance to a modest degree, and that this degree would be most pronounced during events that tend to concentrate CMDRs in a smaller number of systems.

when referring to affecting game features affected by PvE actions in a game where other players, and therefore PvP, are an optional extra.

That's a leading statement. Since PvP interactions are possible in Open, one cannot separate the possible effects from mode choice.

Having one optimal mode for merit/influence gain that can be chosen does nothing to balance the modes, it just penalizes the sub-optimal choices.
 
Both games are competitive. Both games are played on ice. One game does not allow player/player contact the other practically mandates it. All players are playing the former where some would prefer if all were playing the latter.
So which game is the 'one' and who decides who is playing what?

You analogy is poor because ED is both and neither, when it needs to decide what it is with Powerplay.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Fair, for the purposes of this discussion, would be for mode choice to have no net impact on rate of influence or merit accumulation.

If we plot out how much many merits/how much influence is made good per player hour per mode, I am almost positive the aspects of the modes that we both agree exist would skew player performance to a modest degree, and that this degree would be most pronounced during events that tend to concentrate CMDRs in a smaller number of systems.
Averaged out over the whole playing field it would be trivially low, noting that hotspots do occur.
That's a leading statement. Since PvP interactions are possible in Open, one cannot separate the possible effects from mode choice.

Having one optimal mode for merit/influence gain that can be chosen does nothing to balance the modes, it just penalizes the sub-optimal choices.
Not leading at all - simply an acknowledgement that some players to choose to play in a way that means that other players may impede them, when there is no requirement for them to do so. That there are then complaints of unfairness due to the choices that some players make is somewhat ironic.
 
The means of dealing with other players is arguably irrelevant as those other players are an optional extra that players play among due to choices they make.
Why is everything reductive? Surely you want to encourage a variety of styles rather than flat out saying solo is the only way? Its almost as if you don't care about other modes at all....
 
If other players are optional then it's not Ice Hockey.
But in V2 other players are an objective too.

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Its incentives for tasks, and I view features and events equally.

At the risk, nay certainty, of repeating myself:

there's a pretty striking difference between the likelihood of rewards attracting players to a fixed duration game loop they're already familiar with and either positive towards or tolerant of vs the likelihood of rewards resulting in players permanently adopting playstyles they dislike.

(These remarks were intended to illustrate the lack of meaningful equivalence between "features" and "events" in respect of the differences they exhibit.)


If there were no rewards for CGs, would people still do them? Some would, some wouldn't. The same applies with anything and IMO the same with open.

See repetition of points I already made, germane to this exact question, above :)

Its more about making Open strategically count given that you have the most to lose in that mode. It takes away the fun (or renders it pointless) if the outcome is pointless.

However there are plenty who already favour open powerplay and are fervent enough about it to have demanded (previously) that everyone else enjoy it as much as they do, and this is in PPV1 with the existing no-extra-rewards-for-open. Are they not having fun?

How do you know its dozens? From what I have seen via polls its a lot of people.

I don't know - I asked you!

However, my guess would be it's closer to "dozens" than to "enough to merit the dev spend and risk of annoyance to others."
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Why is everything reductive? Surely you want to encourage a variety of styles rather than flat out saying solo is the only way? Its almost as if you don't care about other modes at all....
When the alternative is for players who don't enjoy PvP to be penalised because a subset of the player-base thinks that not being forced to play among players while affecting mode shared game features in a game where other players are an optional extra and PvP is not a requirement of any in-game feature is in some way "unfair" to them it necessarily follows that, from the perspective of players who would be penalised it is "that simple".

PvP proponents offer nothing in this discussion - the change proposals are about how much those who don't enjoy PvP will be penalised.
 
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