Open-Only in PP2.0?

If it is too rewarding then expect collusion, or accusations of it, to appear.
And done properly, you won't.

For example I talked about linking effort to kill value- so that unless you destroy players ships that have done work they count for less. That way alts sat in Sidewinders can't be farmed while actual participants are 'valid'.
Fun.

.... because presumably the frisson of potential / actual PvP encounters is fun for some players.
Thats one reason, but how is it fun when strategically your effort is partly wasted? If FD want (and they do, going by how it was talked about) grand fights they need combat in that mode meaningful enough to warrant doing it in that mode.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
And done properly, you won't.
We can hope so.
Thats one reason, but how is it fun when strategically your effort is partly wasted? If FD want (and they do, going by how it was talked about) grand fights they need combat in that mode meaningful enough to warrant doing it in that mode.
... and how fun would it be to be penalised just because some players can't accept that their fun isn't every player's fun?
 
Yeah, we don't know how this is implemented. One could hope it provides incentive on both sides for players to go out and jolly well 'v' other players, at their and their enemy's strongholds and fortified systems, instead of dully hanging around waiting for hapless truckers to blow up :)
The other aspect to it is that there will be areas that are full of hauling you want stopped (and that you can't counter haul)- its here where there is another potential gap that NPCs won't fill (the expansion phase from unoccupied to exploited). It will be a pain if you have to wait for the system to become 'live' when you could stop (or slow / disrupt it) before that.
 
Where is it written what "modes are supposed to" be? At the simplistic level they are simply settings on the matchmaking system regarding which players may be instanced with.

The answer to your question is implicit in the statement you've followed it with.

The challenge posed by game, driven by PvE actions, is the same in all three game modes. That other players may pose a greater challenge than the game in Open is obvious, understood, and irrelevant to the game of those playing the PvE game.

The presence of allied players typically makes PvE interactions considerably easier (deliveries go much faster with wing beacons that can significantly cut SC travel times, and NPC ships fall at higher rates, with even lower risks, when multiple CMDRs coordinate), while the presence of hostile CMDRs can make those same interactions much harder.

Your attempt to separate the PvE game, or other players, from the game is nonsensical. This is a multiplayer game and other player characters being present are an explicit feature of two of the three modes. No matter the mode we're all contributing to the same setting and all the modes skew the frequency and magnitude of those contributions by allowing other CMDRs to function as assets and obstacles.

If the goal is for the modes to be fair, and I think it should be to avoid perverse incentives that detract from player enjoyment, ignoring the different circumstances implicit to each mode is not the way to go about this.

If one is intolerant of direct player interactions in general, they should be able to select Solo and know they are not being disadvantaged in their ability to contribute influence or merits to the setting, by overly large incentives for PvP in Open, nor benefits from direct cooperation from wings that are possible in both PG and Open.

If one wants to play with their friends without having to worry about PvP, the network issues they will eventually encounter should not penalize their potential contributions vs. Solo players.

If one is tolerant of PvP, or even seeks it out, they should be able to choose Open and do so without sacrificing any ability to contribute to the underlying setting.

Allowing enemy CMDRs to be vaild targets is a step in the right direction, but to truly balance the modes with respect to even the 'PvE game' requires more specific tailoring to each modes advantages and disadvantages.

It's like that semi-popular 'equality vs. equity vs. justice' metaphor...
d-isometric-flat-vector-conceptual-illustration-equality-vs-equity-vs-justice-human-rights-equal-opportunities-d-isometric-237595195.jpg


What we have is 'equality' in that image. All contributions from all modes treated the same, despite the circumstances implict to each mode that all but mandate different outcomes.

What I'd like would be 'justice', where every mode offers fundamentally the same experience and difficulty. Where NPCs are no more or less of a threat, and no less useful as allies, than CMDRs can be.

What I think would be pretty easy to achieve would be 'equity', where the differences between modes are acknowledged and accounted for by dynamically adjusting contribution based on circumstance.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
It very much depends on your view if the glass is half full or half empty.
The glass first needs to be checked for cracks.
Many players (and dev(s) accept facing other players is more tricky than NPCs.
Facing some players, certainly, noting that "a lot" don't engage in combat at all, half are at or below median skill, not all players fly combat ships, etc..

More accurate to say that facing other players may be more tricky than NPCs. Also noting the near zero risk enjoyed in any game mode by those in G5 murderboats.
 
Pvp has a bad name.
It's maligned with smears of murder boats and mismatches which is true. Unfortunately.
But that's not what pvp powerplay 2.0 is going to be.
Pvp powerplay as already mentioned is going to be that unpredictable unanticipated aspect that will make those cargo runs spicy!
Whole fleets of opposing sides all in open having a pop at one another over a contested system/asset.
And anyone in open in a cutter who isn't affiliated will pass by almost unnoticed.
An honourable pastime it'll be, as these powers vye for dominance.
I for one will be having a pop that's for sure even though I'm a pirate, having pledged I'll be hunting!
And cos we can't stop em I'm pretty sure gankers will preside too. Though hopefully the 2 sides will pause and "deal" with them.
See its not about just mindless killing. It's about one of the most difficult and joyful experiences in gaming. Dealing with other gamers head on. Ones that follow a set of rules.
Innocents pass by, only those who choose to participate will find someone weapons hot on their six.
I like your optimism but anyone thinking PP2 will be like a re-run of a 40man Alterac Valley is going to be sadly disappointed.

O7
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
What I'd like would be 'justice', where every mode offers fundamentally the same experience and difficulty. Where NPCs are no more or less of a threat, and no less useful as allies, than CMDRs can be.

What I think would be pretty easy to achieve would be 'equity', where the differences between modes are acknowledged and accounted for by dynamically adjusting contribution based on circumstance.
Well put together, even if I don't agree with all of it. The time spent crafting the response is appreciated.

However increasing the challenge posed by the game to that of other players would, from observing the consequences of previous intended or unintended changes to NPC behaviour, be unlikely to be well received. Similarly it would very much depend on the quantum of any adjustments whether the change would be viewed as reasonable or insulting by those who don't enjoy PvP.
 
Pvp has a bad name.
It's maligned with smears of murder boats and mismatches which is true. Unfortunately.
But that's not what pvp powerplay 2.0 is going to be.
Pvp powerplay as already mentioned is going to be that unpredictable unanticipated aspect that will make those cargo runs spicy!
Whole fleets of opposing sides all in open having a pop at one another over a contested system/asset.
And anyone in open in a cutter who isn't affiliated will pass by almost unnoticed.
An honourable pastime it'll be, as these powers vye for dominance.
I for one will be having a pop that's for sure even though I'm a pirate, having pledged I'll be hunting!
And cos we can't stop em I'm pretty sure gankers will preside too. Though hopefully the 2 sides will pause and "deal" with them.
See its not about just mindless killing. It's about one of the most difficult and joyful experiences in gaming. Dealing with other gamers head on. Ones that follow a set of rules.
Innocents pass by, only those who choose to participate will find someone weapons hot on their six.

Is this sarcasm or naivety?

Some PvP PPers will focus on the gameplay. Others will flock for the killing only.

Also, fleets of opposing sides in a contested system? You are aware this is ED right? You are aware of the networking issues that happen when you start getting too many players in an instance? Yes, you can get big player instances while out exploring, but for combat? All it takes is for someone to launch a SLF to cause lag or more than a handful of players to join up before the lag starts striking.
 
The glass first needs to be checked for cracks.
Are the glasses the same size, volume you mean? Is the can of Tango Open or a multipack?

Facing some players, certainly, noting that "a lot" don't engage in combat at all, half are at or below median skill, not all players fly combat ships, etc..

More accurate to say that facing other players may be more tricky than NPCs. Also noting the near zero risk enjoyed in any game mode by those in G5 murderboats.
I'd say the majority of people attracted to PP are objective oriented players who either want to or are interested in combat or like the idea of context for what they do.

There is nothing stopping FD catering for everyone (see my handy chart earlier) but the top area is where Powerplay is driven.
 
I'd say the majority of people attracted to PP are objective oriented players who either want to or are interested in combat or like the idea of context for what they do.

I wouldn't make claims about what the majority of people attracted to PP are interested in, but personally speaking, if the mechanics are interesting for me, i'll be happy to do a wide range of activities, like i do in regular play. Sometimes combat, sometimes hauling, perhaps turning in exploration data, if all this is possible to help the power.

As long as I can do it all from PG or solo :p
 
Back
Top Bottom