Powerplay 2.0 : what we know from partners' streams

Ever hear of radar? Why do Eurofighter Typhoons fly out over the North Sea?

They appear because something unwanted is trespassing.

If that huge planet is somewhere remote, in an exploited system then I'm cool with having less chances (going down to zero) the further out you go.

Except there is nothing in ED to say that anyone can track anything like you're suggesting.

Look, we could sit here coming up with bull reasons for why something could or could not happen.

If you think its a cool idea that Power NPCs spawn randomly when someone is just down on a planet and will attack (even though there is no outright war and no reason for the attack other than they are against them politically) then that's up to you. I think its silly and a big turn off for PP2.
 
1.Power NPCs can be at sources and destinations, and mission POIs, and at nav beacons and RES, and flying in SC. Plenty of opportunities
I'd suggest that any Power NPC that has you in its sights should be able to 'follow you in' when you revert to normal space, like Mission antagonist NPCs do.

If any Power NPC that has me in their sights, fair enough. Except that's not what is happening.

2. Do you plan on dropping into random spots on planets while working powerplay? Why would you?
Sometimes its worth doing the random revert, be it for finding those sweet unpatrolled mining spots, or to allow you to deploy in SRV/on foot a bit away from your target to get eyes on before committing.

Yes, you could do that, but then the PP NPCs will spawn anyway close to the target, assuming it should be defended by PP NPCs.
 
At least some of them have been pirates for me in the past, but it's possible that's changed recently, certainly - I've spent relatively little time on planet surfaces in inhabited systems the last couple of years. (Planet surfaces yes, inhabited systems yes, both at once not so much)


Definitely more for the ship scans part than the wake scans, agreed. Though they do sometimes jump out and you can pick up a high wake on the scanner at a much greater distance than a ship.




I'm fairly sure that ship scans are not going to be particularly high scoring, and "someone hanging out on a planet surface scanning ships for a week" is not going to be relevant to the final result in the system. If Power NPCs stop appearing there, I don't think it'll be a problem at all in practice or a meaningful exploit opportunity. If it's that big a deal they can take out the cosmetic non-power NPCs too, no objection from me.

But equally, the way PP2 has been described and previewed so far, it doesn't seem to have much concept of "pledged but not doing anything right now" unless you get clear of the bubble entirely - if you're in a system controlled by another Power, you're probably doing some harm to their standing unless you're very careful to deliberately avoid actions which might. That seems to be very deliberate - Frontier certainly didn't have to include "scan ships" as a PP-scoring action, since it does nothing in BGS! - so at least for the first few weeks, having Power NPCs show up and shoot at people just to get them out of the PP1/BGS mindset of "I am harming the local authority's interests in a major but perfectly legal way so I am safe from retaliation" is probably a good thing.

Yes, for Elite Dangerous, this is weird. We're all used to a High Intensity Combat Zone be a perfectly safe place to be (until you pick a side), and then once we get out of that having personally killed 10 ships we get a minor rep hit and then it's all back to "hello valued friend please dock at our station for repairs and resupply" from the faction we were just shooting. We're all used to being able to shoot down pirates in RES all day without our rep with the local Anarchy faction dropping below max-Allied for a second. There's the occasional "what?" from new players about Admiral-King CMDR Fred but the rest of us just handwave it as "well, of course it's absolutely fine to be a renowned double agent for both sides, it's not as if the ranks actually mean much".

Powerplay 2 breaks away from that by making the sides you oppose actually take it personally for once. It'll take some getting used to.

Thing is, i'm not against opposing Power NPCs being wary of you, and following you and pouncing on you the moment you do something against them.

But basically making going to most of the bubble become a slogfest of NPCs attacking you, no matter what you are doing.

Not looking good to me.
 
Except there is nothing in ED to say that anyone can track anything like you're suggesting.
ED is PvE wise abstracted, there is every chance they can, just like BH or pirates appear or that police know you've done something despite not being seen.

Look, we could sit here coming up with bull reasons for why something could or could not happen.
The reason is abstraction- what we have is approximating something rather than a full on MS flight sim in space.

If you think its a cool idea that Power NPCs spawn randomly when someone is just down on a planet and will attack (even though there is no outright war and no reason for the attack other than they are against them politically) then that's up to you. I think its silly and a big turn off for PP2.
You have twelve powers who want to dominate and are hostile to others (even to a point those of the same s.power).

I think its silly and a big turn off for PP2.
I think frankly people who can't deal with picking and staying with one side should not pledge. A feature like PP can't be for everyone without compromising itself.
 
Thing is, i'm not against opposing Power NPCs being wary of you, and following you and pouncing on you the moment you do something against them.

But basically making going to most of the bubble become a slogfest of NPCs attacking you, no matter what you are doing.

Not looking good to me.
It would appear the 'FDevs' agree with your umm Agony --> https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...new-release-date-and-release-schedule.628922/ ... re: " to adjust an issue with NPCs still being more aggressive than intended. "... ;)
 
It would appear the 'FDevs' agree with your umm Agony --> https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...new-release-date-and-release-schedule.628922/ ... re: " to adjust an issue with NPCs still being more aggressive than intended. "... ;)

Maybe. I wonder what level of aggression they are aiming for. Less aggressive in general, meaning they may or may not attack, but it doesn't address the appropriateness of attacking would probably annoy people like Rubbernuke and wouldn't do anything to interest me either.

I think me and Rubbernuke want a level of appropriateness to attacks, we just have different ideas on what that appropriateness should be.

Or maybe FD are actually adjusting based on that and it will make both me and Rubbernuke happier.
 
It would appear the 'FDevs' agree with your umm Agony --> https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...new-release-date-and-release-schedule.628922/ ... re: " to adjust an issue with NPCs still being more aggressive than intended. "... ;)
More along the lines of this:

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Although I'm a bit lost why you balance around an exploration ship instead of an actual combat ship, and a pirate is not waves and waves of security.

My old Corvette could tank several ordinary sec ships comfortably, and while BGS murder killing chain multiple kills (my record was something silly like 20 sec ships in one 'go').

In all honesty it sounds like PP is currently at High security level response and pre-hostile...if so taking it down would be good but no lower than say, medium.

I'm quite happy to pick a side and stick with it. That isn't my issue.
Again, this is abstraction- it has to best approximate hostile powers. If you are inside a rivals systems (especially strongholds) NPCs should challenge you, because its impossible to know what you intend to do. The best solution would be Alecs idea of a temp opt out.
 
Again, this is abstraction- it has to best approximate hostile powers. If you are inside a rivals systems (especially strongholds) NPCs should challenge you, because its impossible to know what you intend to do. The best solution would be Alecs idea of a temp opt out.

A temp opt out is a nice idea, but probably very open to abuse.

And again, we simply disagree on when Power NPCs should be challenging you and how.
 
But basically making going to most of the bubble become a slogfest of NPCs attacking you, no matter what you are doing.
Conversely for me, one of the very first things I noticed about Elite Dangerous back when I started playing in 1.1 was how difficult it was to get attacked by NPCs while trading. I was expecting something more like the Elite/FE2/FFE experience where you fly along and get attacked by pirates a bit because that's what happens in an Elite game. Then you kill them and carry on. Getting through an Anarchy/lowsec/enemy system should be a slogfest, not a "oh, I pressed the SCO button so I'm at the station now, job done" because that's how they're distinguished from Highsec/friendly ones.

I am trying not to get my hopes too high that the next update will bring an entirely optional button I can press to get a bit of that experience in Elite Dangerous too, and people who like the "this is my non-combat ship so no-one should shoot it" go-anywhere design of most of the rest of the game don't have to press it.
 
(...)
Although I'm a bit lost why you balance around an exploration ship instead of an actual combat ship, and a pirate is not waves and waves of security.
My old Corvette could tank several ordinary sec ships comfortably, and while BGS murder killing chain multiple kills (my record was something silly like 20 sec ships in one 'go').
(...)

Do you think PP2.0 shoudl be only for best skilled pilots, who fly in fully engineered Corvette?
 
Powerplay consists of twelve powers against each other, and that you either fight or fly faster than the person behind you.

Have you seen last changes in Elite? Isn't that obvious thet game is going to invite new players? And previous comment was about Mandalay that is fine to fight with pirates but totally uncapable to fight with PP NPCs, so that's probably what was unbalanced.
I am pretty sure that it isn't decision made by few random players. Partner testing program is pretty big.

I would wait to see how it works after relase.
 
Have you seen last changes in Elite? Isn't that obvious thet game is going to invite new players? And previous comment was about Mandalay that is fine to fight with pirates but totally uncapable to fight with PP NPCs, so that's probably what was unbalanced.
I am pretty sure that it isn't decision made by few random players. Partner testing program is pretty big.

I would wait to see how it works after relase.
The key is to grade the difficulty so you have room for people who want to go for it, can. Outside of Thargoids nothing really pushes G5 ships at all and Powerplay should do that more often. And how do you know new players don't want part of ED to be harder than the rest? Its not obligatory to pledge.
 
The key is to grade the difficulty so you have room for people who want to go for it, can. Outside of Thargoids nothing really pushes G5 ships at all and Powerplay should do that more often. And how do you know new players don't want part of ED to be harder than the rest? Its not obligatory to pledge.

I know what you mean, but... at first for a long time I wasn't engaged in Thargoid War, because for me the level was too high. After Frontier showed prebuild AX-combat ship I realized that there is probably something I can do. So I've tried, and... I can do it too. Of course I don't fight with hydras, but still I can do some activity, or go fight with Titan.
Is Thargoid War mandatory? No. Is it interesting and accesible for newbies and pro pilots? Definitely yes.

So, why not to do this with PP2.0? I think this is the balans Frontier needs, and want. NGL, Elite need a lot of new players, and short way to engage them to all activities. We can't look from the top of the rankings and decide who can do what, and explain it like: "maybe you don't want to do it, because you are newbie".

Assuming anything about other players is just wrong. Frontier can just give them a chance to participate.

And I don't know if you have seen partners stream, but TBH new PP2.0 looks definitely like something what can teach new players every activity in Elite step by step and engage them a lot.

And I like it.
 
And how do you know new players don't want part of ED to be harder than the rest?
Equally, the Power NPCs shouldn't be tough enough to defend the system on their own - otherwise everyone will just let the NPCs do that and focus on fortifying up systems which aren't at Stronghold yet. They need to be present and moderately threatening, but they can't be so dangerous that they make attack a much less attractive option than defence.

(Obviously if you're trying to rob a Stronghold Carrier for a huge merit payout, sure, that can have a ridiculously tough defence. But if you're just hacking a few holoscreen adverts then a light fighter to chase you off once in a while is fine)
 
Although I'm a bit lost why you balance around an exploration ship instead of an actual combat ship, and a pirate is not waves and waves of security.

My old Corvette could tank several ordinary sec ships comfortably, and while BGS murder killing chain multiple kills (my record was something silly like 20 sec ships in one 'go').

I watched a streamer use the Mandalay to decimate ships & SLF's at a Fed stronghold system. He knew what he was doing but the Mandalay itself maeuvered like a fighter and his shields were rated at 1400 MJ as I recall.

Yes, it's a great exploration ship but more heavily armed, fast & nimble which is why I call it a raider. If you want to terrorise stations and settlements outside the Bubble it's the perfect ship to use. And even in the Bubble it will do great in hit-and-run raids or piracy @Rebel Yell is fond of saying 🙂
 
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