Powerplay 2.0 : what we know from partners' streams

[Nowski]

Pledged PP 2.0 players may have to get used to plotting their trade routes to cross friendly space as much as possible. Currently, the route plot is just a straight line through potentially hostile enemy territory. But that's assuming PP security police & agents don't get nerfed to the ground. Hopefully not

Yeah, I think there's a distinction to be made between the level of aggro from NPCs, and the prevalence. If the high grade hostility is fairly localised and you can make a confident determination of where to find and avoid it, then so long as it doesn't dominate the space you want to use things aren't so bad.

Where hostile Powers do occupy systems you habitually frequent, the choice between dealing with the hostility, joining the hostile Power, and avoiding Powerplay altogether will become more stark, I guess.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Where hostile Powers do occupy systems you habitually frequent, the choice between dealing with the hostility, joining the hostile Power, and avoiding Powerplay altogether will become more stark, I guess.

Don't forget option 4 "take the system for your Power so most of the NPCs are on your side"

 

[Tifu]

Yeah, I think there's a distinction to be made between the level of aggro from NPCs, and the prevalence. If the high grade hostility is fairly localised and you can make a confident determination of where to find and avoid it, then so long as it doesn't dominate the space you want to use things aren't so bad.

Where hostile Powers do occupy systems you habitually frequent, the choice between dealing with the hostility, joining the hostile Power, and avoiding Powerplay altogether will become more stark, I guess.

I expect that any stronghold systems along the way are to be avoided. Even if you do manage to fight your way through, the delay would make an alternative detour much preferable. Fortified systems would be a calculated risk while exploited systems should be low risk.

What I don't know is how risky contested systems will be

 

[Pask]

a well made video, with a pinch of humor about some inconsistencies in the actual (test server) PP v2.0 mechanics.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ60BZjazhs


I would have liked an option to playing a "low profile" agent, without having a sign saying "I am an enemy spy", with appropriate disadvantages, less merits or whatever; i mean it as optional playstile not mandatary.

atm, you can do cover ops like "silent run" switch station/outpost banners, you complete it undetected but still get a fine, not fair
conversely, station and carrier defence attack you on sight but you can dock and no one is hostile inside station or at settlement.
at least they fix attacks while you land on planet for Exobio or just take a walk.

The "open corporation war" is the chosen way by devs, instead of Mega Corporation "invisible war" with agents, and sporadic open conflict of small duration against other Corps.

btw, the new system has great potential but I think it will require a lot of adjustments.

a few days to "public" testing and tuning

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

The problem is, people want everything and not make choices. They love the idea of a galaxy of consequences until those consequences affect them and they don't adapt.

Using an adage I've used a few times in this discussion: Everyone wants to be the Han Solo of their own story.
Unfortunately, in a galaxy where everyone is Han Solo, everyone is also Ensign Ricky.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Using an adage I've used a few times in this discussion: Everyone wants to be the Han Solo of their own story.
Unfortunately, in a galaxy where everyone is Han Solo, everyone is also Ensign Ricky.

Why are those TIEs shooting at me? WHAYYYYYYYYYYY

 

[Kallipar]

Looking at Galnet Digest I am very underwhelmed by pew pew 2.0

 

[Darkfyre99]

The problem is, people want everything and not make choices. They love the idea of a galaxy of consequences until those consequences affect them and they don't adapt.

There is a balance to be struck, but at its heart other powers will come after you and there should be nothing to stop them doing so. PP2 should not become a passive layer like the BGS where neutrality is possible, because thats not its nature as a foreground conflict sim like Thargoids are. It does not matter if you are scanning rocks or blowing up ships, if you are earning merits you are acting against other powers by propping up your own.

One of the first things I’ll be doing, PowerPlay 2.0 wise, is see how it affects the latest Buckyball race. We’re hauling rare commodities this race, but I’m fairly certain that it won’t count as undermining unless one of the systems is eligible to be acquired. Either way, it’ll give me a good before and after impression of how aggressive NPCs are.

 

[Rubbernuke]

One of the first things I’ll be doing, PowerPlay 2.0 wise, is see how it affects the latest Buckyball race. We’re hauling rare commodities this race, but I’m fairly certain that it won’t count as undermining unless one of the systems is eligible to be acquired. Either way, it’ll give me a good before and after impression of how aggressive NPCs are.

It will be ironic and a little pathetic if PP2 is nerfed into the floor because of racing.

 

[Wily Rites]

One of the first things I’ll be doing, PowerPlay 2.0 wise, is see how it affects the latest Buckyball race. We’re hauling rare commodities this race, but I’m fairly certain that it won’t count as undermining unless one of the systems is eligible to be acquired. Either way, it’ll give me a good before and after impression of how aggressive NPCs are.

Never underestimate the human spirit! I'm sure that the rules of the racing will adapt to what ever comes, most likely making it even better; This is where the human spirit creativity and imagination really shines! Plotting routes to avoid the cops, is starting to pick up a real cannonball run vibe!

There is an entire galaxy out there after all, I'm sure that there's a way to navigate it.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The problem is, people want everything and not make choices.

sigh

We've gone over this a dozen times. I'm happy to make a choice and I do want to be able to do anything as i want. I see nothing wrong with that.

PP2 does make it harder for NPCs to be coded to know if you are up to some PP related shenanigans, because a wide range of activities can now be attributed to PP.

Maybe FD decided it was simply too hard to code NPC reactions based on a wide range of factors, beyond the BGS equivalent of "Are they an enemy, do they have a bounty for our faction?". Instead its more like you are automatically flagged as Hostile to a faction BGS-wise, except to opposing powers.

Perhaps a reputation system could be established instead, like with faction reputation. PP NPCs react to you based on past actions. If they've caught you doing nasty stuff before, your reputation drops until you are hostile, then you do get the constant attacks. Consequences based on actions, rather than simply a political affiliation. If you've never taken any actions to undermine against a particular power, then the NPCs might keep an eye on you, but nothing more. There are some powers you may never interact with, them being on the far side of another power. You hold that power no i'll will, they hold no ill will to your power. Hell, they could be in alliance with each other (at least between player groups), but the NPCs won't know this of course, yet they will still attack, for no good reason.

Wouldn't a reputation system be a decent idea?

Another idea put forward, which i think you are aware of, is a pause option. Anything you do while your allegiance is paused doesn't affect powerplay, just like being unpledged. Might need thinking about possible exploits, but i guess it should be possible to flag things so that its not exploitable. For example, you go bounty hunting while "paused", you can't unpause and then hand in those bounties to affect PP, they wouldn't count.

Wouldn't that be a decent idea?

But anyway, argue against this all you want, oppose every idea regarding it because you personally can't stand the idea that people might want to go outside their power regions without issue from time to time. Deride people who might want this if you like. It just makes the choice simpler, to not engage in PP, or just sign up until all modules are unlocked, buy them, store them, and unpledge... and oh, we are back to PP1.

 

[Rubbernuke]

to not engage in PP

At some point this is the option if territory is to mean something.

You also know my reasoning.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Pledged PP 2.0 players may have to get used to plotting their trade routes to cross friendly space as much as possible. Currently, the route plot is just a straight line through potentially hostile enemy territory. But that's assuming PP security police & agents don't get nerfed to the ground. Hopefully not

Nah, just fly a Cutter. Can't be mass locked, carries a ton of cargo. Fast enough. No NPCs will stop you.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

At some point this is the option if territory is to mean something.

You also know my reasoning.

And so, the popularity of PP2 boils down to, do the pros (fun, features, rewards, etc) outweigh the cons (restrictions in travel, random enemy attacks, etc)?

It will differ for each person. Too many cons and it will be unpopular, more pros, it might actually be very popular.

We will see, and of course, should reserve judgement until we've had a chance to play it.

I'm also curious as to whether the mechanics will allow for more fluid expansion and failing of powers than PP1, which basically ended up in a largely static situation. Will, at last, powers be able to dominate if they have enough support? Will powers be able to fall if they are overrun? Or will it all eventually fall into stasis?

You say territory should mean something, but it becomes rather meaningless if powers can't win or lose against their opponents. It will be back to the old never ending game of Risk.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Hell, they could be in alliance with each other (at least between player groups), but the NPCs won't know this of course, yet they will still attack

With Powerplay 2 meaning that there's no longer any requirement (or even particular possibility) for the majority of player activity to be coordinated, channeled, and via the consolidation vote routinely prevented by a single unified command ... no agreement between two player groups not to attack each other's territory means the slightest thing to anyone not in those two groups, and that includes the NPCs.

I'm also curious as to whether the mechanics will allow for more fluid expansion and failing of powers than PP1, which basically ended up in a largely static situation. Will, at last, powers be able to dominate if they have enough support? Will powers be able to fall if they are overrun? Or will it all eventually fall into stasis?

Short-term, yes, absolutely it should be more fluid - the ability to target specific systems for undermining and have that take effect in a single cycle alone would be huge for that.

I doubt it's possible for a single power to get enough support to dominate the bubble (sure, in theory, yes, but in practice no).
Losing one of the less well-supported powers because they can't maintain their systems and clearly no-one is really trying to I think is much more likely. (One of my reasons for picking Kaine is to ensure that at least someone does...)

An eventual stalemate where everyone can maintain their existing territory but can't easily expand it is certainly still a possibility. The big question is not whether it eventually happens, but whether Frontier has tools to shake that sort of thing up in a way that's perceived as "fair".

Another idea put forward, which i think you are aware of, is a pause option. Anything you do while your allegiance is paused doesn't affect powerplay, just like being unpledged. Might need thinking about possible exploits, but i guess it should be possible to flag things so that its not exploitable. For example, you go bounty hunting while "paused", you can't unpause and then hand in those bounties to affect PP, they wouldn't count.

I certainly agree that a "pause" option might be a good idea to add. (Though maybe it's just Frontier's plan to sell extra alts?)

Bearing in mind that you can already unpledge and repledge fairly freely (you lose your rank, but that's largely not important to the system outcome) it probably doesn't even need to be all that restricted.

I think the fullest exploit avoidance would be:
- pausing takes effect on your next instance change (just to stop people pausing it in the middle of a PvP battle they're losing)
- resuming takes effect automatically at the start of the next week
but it could probably allow quicker resuming without any serious downside.

 

[Doctor Dread]

just sign up until all modules are unlocked, buy them, store them, and unpledge...

This is exactly what 99% of people who would even touch PP will do.

Looks like being pledged will bring too much hustle for a normal gameplay.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

With Powerplay 2 meaning that there's no longer any requirement (or even particular possibility) for the majority of player activity to be coordinated, channeled, and via the consolidation vote routinely prevented by a single unified command ... no agreement between two player groups not to attack each other's territory means the slightest thing to anyone not in those two groups, and that includes the NPCs.


Short-term, yes, absolutely it should be more fluid - the ability to target specific systems for undermining and have that take effect in a single cycle alone would be huge for that.

I doubt it's possible for a single power to get enough support to dominate the bubble (sure, in theory, yes, but in practice no).
Losing one of the less well-supported powers because they can't maintain their systems and clearly no-one is really trying to I think is much more likely. (One of my reasons for picking Kaine is to ensure that at least someone does...)

An eventual stalemate where everyone can maintain their existing territory but can't easily expand it is certainly still a possibility. The big question is not whether it eventually happens, but whether Frontier has tools to shake that sort of thing up in a way that's perceived as "fair".


I certainly agree that a "pause" option might be a good idea to add. (Though maybe it's just Frontier's plan to sell extra alts?)

Bearing in mind that you can already unpledge and repledge fairly freely (you lose your rank, but that's largely not important to the system outcome) it probably doesn't even need to be all that restricted.

I think the fullest exploit avoidance would be:
- pausing takes effect on your next instance change (just to stop people pausing it in the middle of a PvP battle they're losing)
- resuming takes effect automatically at the start of the next week
but it could probably allow quicker resuming without any serious downside.

Yeah, i understand there's less need for power alliances, but i'm sure they will still happen between some of the organized groups of players. An in-game alliance feature could be interesting, whereby alliances between powers could be made or broken, depending on a certain percentage of pledged commanders who have logged in that week voting for or against. (so there is a week of counting by the system, monitoring each pledged commander about a potential alliance/breakage of alliance, with a notification in their inbox about the vote). For that week, you don't get attacked in allied power systems, but likewise, no power activities can affect that power (undermining not possible, expansion into their territories not possible).

 

[Rubbernuke]

And so, the popularity of PP2 boils down to, do the pros (fun, features, rewards, etc) outweigh the cons (restrictions in travel, random enemy attacks, etc)?

Powerplay is not the BGS- it has to offer more than what BGS factions are. Part of that (missing from PP1) was having territory actually have a reason to be- something completely absent NPC wise and only enforced by players. Now thats changed, PP2 PvE has local and supra-local impacts.

PP1 territory was also in the end just a collection of values used for CC. PP2 flips that on its head and owning space actually has material gains as well as making things safer.

It will differ for each person. Too many cons and it will be unpopular, more pros, it might actually be very popular.

Dumb it down too much you are left with a pretty BGS mk2. Its why several times I outline how this could be done at a per system level- but in the end it will still mean some places will be much more aggressively defended. Thats part of Powers and Powerplay... deal with it or don't pledge because Powerplay can't please absolutely everyone without totally compromising itself to be yet another super soft gatcha game.

We will see, and of course, should reserve judgement until we've had a chance to play it.

The problem is the BGS and the forums has trained people to abhor shooting or thinking like a combat pilot, and I expect some would like it set at 2015 PP1 levels.

I'm also curious as to whether the mechanics will allow for more fluid expansion and failing of powers than PP1, which basically ended up in a largely static situation. Will, at last, powers be able to dominate if they have enough support? Will powers be able to fall if they are overrun? Or will it all eventually fall into stasis? You say territory should mean something, but it becomes rather meaningless if powers can't win or lose against their opponents. It will be back to the old never ending game of Risk.

It depends if the onus is on attack and enough people want to fight. PP1 went static because defence was easy and based on aspects beyond sheer effort.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Powerplay is not the BGS- it has to offer more than what BGS factions are. Part of that (missing from PP1) was having territory actually have a reason to be- something completely absent NPC wise and only enforced by players. Now thats changed, PP2 PvE has local and supra-local impacts.

Never said it had to be. My comment was basically saying what is obvious, so not sure why you are pushing back against it. Its popularity will depend on the pros and cons offered.

Dumb it down too much you are left with a pretty BGS mk2. Its why several times I outline how this could be done at a per system level- but in the end it will still mean some places will be much more aggressively defended. Thats part of Powers and Powerplay... deal with it or don't pledge because Powerplay can't please absolutely everyone without totally compromising itself to be yet another super soft gatcha game.

I'm not calling for it to be dumbed down and the part you quoted said nothing about dumbing it down. You can have different mechanics without it being dumbed down.

The problem is the BGS and the forums has trained people to abhor shooting or thinking like a combat pilot, and I expect some would like it set at 2015 PP1 levels.

No it hasn't. People play the way they want to. I often do combat as part of the BGS. Also, once again, the part you quoted said nothing in relation to what you wrote. All i said there was we should reserve judgement and you go off on a rant about the BGS. Crazy.

It depends if the onus is on attack and enough people want to fight. PP1 went static because defence was easy and based on aspects beyond sheer effort.

Ok, so yes, finally, this is relevant to something i said. We will have to wait and see of course whether it will be too easy to defend, too hard to defend, or just right. And of course, the hand of FD might tweak from time to time.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Never said it had to be. My comment was basically saying what is obvious, so not sure why you are pushing back against it. Its popularity will depend on the pros and cons offered.



I'm not calling for it to be dumbed down and the part you quoted said nothing about dumbing it down. You can have different mechanics without it being dumbed down.



No it hasn't. People play the way they want to. I often do combat as part of the BGS. Also, once again, the part you quoted said nothing in relation to what you wrote. All i said there was we should reserve judgement and you go off on a rant about the BGS. Crazy.



Ok, so yes, finally, this is relevant to something i said. We will have to wait and see of course whether it will be too easy to defend, too hard to defend, or just right. And of course, the hand of FD might tweak from time to time.

Maybe actually having a think might help? Or that I'm trying to advance this endless circling of the issue?

PP2 has to be a feature that is an experience different to whats offered before you have pros and cons. What will it offer we don't have so far? We have had Thargoid wars, now its that transposed onto human space- with all the conflict that comes with it.