Open-Only in PP2.0?

[Agony_Aunt]

I think that depends on the game, or whats being encouraged by it, which is where Elite really suffers for me by trying to cater for everyones desires, leaving to no-one fully satisfied (and before someone smugly posts "PvE players are happy" or what not, I remind you to remember the salt fueled and hatred fueled outpourings regarding UA Bombing, or when a PvP heavy player group got official FDEV coverage, which show that is not the case).

Naval Action for example, had PvE servers that have been absolutely dead in comparison to the PvP one to the point they've regularly considered winding them down.

The problem with spreading the servers for me, as I'm sure we've discussed has always been at that point: Which 'server' counts as canon for lore and story driven event purposes?

PvEers are almost fully satisfied. Ok, a pure Open PvE mode would be better of course, but PGs is close enough for most of us i would daresay. We don't need that social interaction, and when we do, we can get it.

Its the PvPers who are unsatisfied.

Separate servers, should, in theory, give everyone what they want, and if the demand for forcing open is as high as some people like to make out, then surely a separate PvP server would do very well, right?

Naval Action for example, had PvE servers that have been absolutely dead in comparison to the PvP one to the point they've regularly considered winding them down.

Different games of course attract different players. EvE from the start was clearly full on PvP and anyone buying into that hoping for a PvE experience deserves what they get. Ark has many PvP and PvE servers, both types very popular. I guess with Naval Action the PvE gameplay simply wasn't interesting enough to keep the PvEers around.

One that stands out for me is Sea of Thieves, which is popular with both PvEers and PvPers even though it is fully PvP enbabled, or at least was. The devs did add a limited PvE mode, and i got really excited, until i saw just how limited you are playing it. I presume they want to channel people from the PvE mode to the "Open only" mode as it were. I suspect they fear that if they added a full PvE mode that the PvP server would die. Maybe rightly so. I'm hoping, one day in the future, perhaps when player numbers fall, they will offer a full solo or PvE mode. Would love to play the game.

Which 'server' counts as canon for lore and story driven event purposes?

Sci-fi universe. Its not like parallel worlds aren't a common meme.

 

[Mr Jack Burton]

Then why did the organised 'lets meet up in a system and pew pew' fail?
.....

If you really want to do PvP its not that hard to organise, just good luck finding enough folks interested in a fair fight, its been tried before.

How you can state that ? We have weekly tournaments organized by players with hunderds of CMDRs:

https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/1fzfrpo/pvp_endeavor_coming_up_this_wednesday

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/1fzfrpo/pvp_endeavor_coming_up_this_wednesday/


LOL

The reason is confusing real Pvpers with most of the folks i used to encounter just roleplaying pirates as an excuse for griefing.

You can avoid hot areas (you choose the risk) or be equipped (you choose your outfitting) and fly accordingly (if you are in hot area and not fitted for fighting you have to learn art of evasion).
All this rules apply even in current PvE enemy threat would be rised.

 

[Mr Jack Burton]

My point is exactly how many folks do you actually come across to blow up?
Doing other stuff will advance your cause way faster.

O7

This is exactly the design flaw we’re all talking about. Playing in PG/Solo lets players completely bypass the risks of Open. Call that risk 'gankers,' 'pirates,' 'PvPers' whatever you like.

Defeating a real player from an opposing Power Play faction should grant more merits (perhaps even by stealing from the opponent's rank to avoid exploit loopholes like farming kills), and any activity in Open should reward players for the potential risk they’re taking.

I’m currently doing rare goods runs in Open, and when I encounter players (and there are a LOT of them around rares lately), my trip time can sometimes triple. This isn’t fair compared to PG/Solo, where PvE enemies don’t come close to the level of disruption real players can create.

 

[Darrack]

How you can state that ? We have weekly tournaments organized by players with hunderds of CMDRs:

Then why are the PvPers moaning? knock yourselves out.

You can avoid hot areas (you choose the risk) or be equipped (you choose your outfitting) and fly accordingly

I don't need to, thankfully i play on a PVE server where i can optimise my builds for the task without risk of roleplaying pirates, NPCs are just fine to fill that imeeeerrrrsion

 

[Agony_Aunt]

This is a game marketed as PvP, its like making a PVE server for Fortnite as a comparison.

O7

Fortnite: Save the World was the PvE mode that existed before Battle Royale. When the PvP side took off, the devs focused on that instead, leaving StW to languish. I'm still salty about that.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

What about a new bubble for PvE instead ? Old bubble already has Open implemented, competitive PP/BGS in place and so on.

I'd be happy with a "Second Foundation" thing with a PvE safe space as an option, as long as its decently big enough to accommodate all the PvEers.

I fear the bubble is just too big though for the PvP population, which is why a second bubble for PvP might be the better option.

 

[Darrack]

This is exactly the design flaw we’re all talking about

Its not a flaw just because you cant find victims

Playing in PG/Solo lets players completely bypass the risks of Open

There is no risk, you honestly wont find me if i don't want you to

I’m currently doing rare goods runs in Open, and when I encounter players

Just done three hours in Open to prove a point, not seen a sausage running Tiegfries Synth Silk to Audheim

O7

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Then why did the organised 'lets meet up in a system and pew pew' fail?

Did it? I went to San Tu once and had some fun pew-pewing with the guys there in organized fights.

 

[Mr Jack Burton]

Its not a flaw just because you cant find victims

I'm not a griefer in any sense buddy.

There is no risk, you honestly wont find me if i don't want you to

Arrr, if ye swear yer in Open and tell us the waters ye be sailin', ye can bet someone’ll be findin’ ye soon enough! Otherwise, this here parley wouldn’t even be takin' place, aye?

Just done three hours in Open to prove a point, not seen a sausage running Tiegfries Synth Silk to Audheim

So keep it going!

 

[Rebel Yell]

Just done three hours in Open to prove a point, not seen a sausage running Tiegfries Synth Silk to Audheim

Should have visited Harma around 9PM game time...

 

[Robert Maynard]

This is exactly the design flaw we’re all talking about. Playing in PG/Solo lets players completely bypass the risks of Open. Call that risk 'gankers,' 'pirates,' 'PvPers' whatever you like.

Noting that it is, from one perspective, a design feature rather than a flaw, playing in Private Groups and Solo lets players play their way, leaving those who play in a different way to play in Open. Call it "play how you want to, not how others want you to" - noting that requests for PvP players to play differently, i.e. not to attack those disinterested in PvP, fall on deaf ears.

 

[Mr Jack Burton]

Noting that it is, from one perspective, a design feature rather than a flaw, playing in Private Groups and Solo lets players play their way, leaving those who play in a different way to play in Open. Call it "play how you want to, not how others want you to" - noting that requests for PvP players to play differently, i.e. not to attack those disinterested in PvP, fall on deaf ears.

This is a design flaw until risk/rewards are balanced or we play all in the same environment with equal level of risk and efficiency. The only other option I see is that solo/PG does not affect PP and BGS but only personal ranking in PP and reputation with faction for the BGS.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

Power play a PvP system ?
Do you get additional points for blowing up commanders ?
Do you get points taken off in open because you don't meet effective opposition ?
PP like BGS is filling up buckets , those who fill up more wins .
PP and BGS could be NPC interactions only for many players who don't really care and noone would notice the difference some magical mythical hand wavium algorithm.
In your opinion it's PvP in my opinion it's not .
That's the crux one players opinion doesn't make it right or wrong.
Fdev have always said it can be played in all modes , yes we can go back to the good old days when it was harder and find someone who said something that aligns with our thoughts and ideals . They did say at the begining console was getting EDO ... Just saying
Remember Mobius was a thing in 2014 so it's not like we have slowly infiltrated Fdev with the evil and totally unnecessary silly PvE nonsense.
This subject has been done to death with the same objections from both sides since elite started and by the looks of it, it will carry on .

In Powerplay, you're partaking in a gameplay loop where you and those pledged to the same faction as you are competing to 'fill buckets' quicker/more efficiently than a rival group of players (hence Player vs. Player) for gains . You said it yourself in your own post.

 

[Robert Maynard]

This is a design flaw until risk/rewards are balanced or we play all in the same environment with equal level of risk and efficiency. The only other option I see is that solo/PG does not affect PP and BGS but only personal ranking in PP and reputation with faction for the BGS.

That the point regarding requests of PvP players to play differently was completely ignored is obvious - as there seems to be a desire for those who enjoy PvP to not have to change how they play in any way while seeking to force those who don't enjoy PvP, and don't choose to play among those who do, to change how they play....

The game as delivered makes very clear that all players, regardless of game mode, experience and affect the shared galaxy whereas the existence of the three game modes makes very clear that playing among other players is an optional extra.

Attempts to retcon the design to suggest that it's a broken PvP game because players don't need to play with each other entirely miss the point - it's not a game where other players and the PvP they may initiate are anything more than an optional extra.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

There is no appetite for 'real' PvP, that's why CQC failed.

O7

It could it not just be that nobody wants to play Arena shooters? I've played a wide range of PvP type games in my life, and theres nothing as dull and uninspiring to me as that type of gameplay,

 

[Robert Maynard]

It could it not just be that nobody wants to play Arena shooters? I've played a wide range of PvP type games in my life, and theres nothing as dull and uninspiring to me as that type of gameplay,

For some PvP itself, regardless of game, is dull and uninspiring - hence the opposition to changes to suit PvP in this game that does not force any player to engage in PvP.

 

[Mr Jack Burton]

The game as delivered makes very clear that all players, regardless of game mode, experience and affect the shared galaxy whereas the existence of the three game modes makes very clear that playing among other players is an optional extra.

Attempts to retcon the design to suggest that it's a broken PvP game because players don't need to play with each other entirely miss the point - it's not a game where other players and the PvP they may initiate are anything more than an optional extra.

Microsoft Word was shipped with "Clippy". Now is a meme.
Happy or not with PvP it introduces risks with no rewards and PG/Solo have unfair advantage when it comes to PP and BGS.
PvP in Open is a risk, not an option.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Microsoft Word was shipped with "Clippy". Now is a meme.

Replaced with Cortana - that can just as easily be disabled.

Happy or not with PvP it introduces risks with no rewards and PG/Solo have unfair advantage when it comes to PP and BGS.

If the definition of "fair" and "unfair" depends on an optional game feature that only those who consciously choose to engage in it fails.

What would be "fair" about PvP-gating mode shared game content to Open only in a game where PvP is in and of itself an optional extra that no player needs to engage in?

PvP in Open is a risk, not an option.

Depends on the size of ones block list - also noting that playing in Open is not a requirement of any game feature.

 

[Northpin]

We have weekly tournaments organized by players with hunderds of CMDRs:

And there are tens of thousands that are not interested in pvp at all...

Edit: once there was an interesting Inara statistic that showed less than 10% of players that logged their ingame actions in Inara got involved in pvp-interactions
Should i point out again that ED is not a PVP game, but a game that allows PVP?

Power Play is not a PVP mode since most merits come from PVE actions.
It would had been a PVP mode if all merits came from direct PVP interactions - like CQC, which is the only PVP mode in ED.

 

[Darrack]

Should have visited Harma around 9PM game time...

What says i didn't

O7