I thought the complaint was that there aren't any inherently PvP orientated gameplay mechanics, (which I agree with).
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Crime and Punishment not fit for purpose - needs overhauling
- Thread starter rootsrat
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It is.
The two are inherently linked. Why would you partake in Powerplay as a PvP player if you can't stop players taking over a system or stimey defences when your faction is taking over one?
You can't. You will always be out-competed by the lack of risk in solo or PG unless you stoop to that same level and grind rares for 200 hours.
When the best candidate for direct PvP to have meaning is easily worked around by the existence of its manipulation in other modes, any interaction you have with the system becomes irrelevant and meaningless.
No hope of victory, no hope of contributing to community efforts, and thusly, no gameplay to enjoy beyond random murder -hoboing and fighting one another.
If PvE players want to see a reduction in ganking, give us a means to play in the larger systems. Don't just come up with ideas to lob random, ever escalating penalties at us. All that does is further increase the dislike between the two groups and further perpetuates a PvP based system that doesn't allow for direct PvP to matter.
Well, honesty at last. So it's not anything to do with finding "competent opposition", then? Weird.
Interesting. And what would you say to the player you gank if they asked to be just treated like an actual human and left out of your gameplay because they're not interested in it?
I don't know anything about our relative status, but I know that I don't force people to play the game with me when they don't want to, and apparently you have no problem with it. When I get bored or run out of things to do in the game, I find something else to do. I don't try to ruin other people's fun. Do you see why people might look down on your choice to do otherwise?
I get that. Real humans make for more interesting fights. Never disputed that.
Of the two times I was harassed (as I said before, prefer solo), the one I had zero problem with was the DBS that interdicted my Imperial Clipper (departing engineer in Shinrarta Dezhra). I found that one amusing because he claimed he wanted to pirate (Uh exactly how much cargo can you actually take?). I also knew that he wasn't someone to mess with because that little ship was going to be a fast, stealth fighter. I've seen it done. But he was up against a clipper, which easily out boosted him and jumped away.
The other time I was NOT amused. Same system, engineering my AX Anaconda (totally incapable of even hurting NPC ships). I forgot I was in open because I was playing while home sick. Interdicted by an FDL. No pirating demands, just immediate blasting away. Yeah, I menu logged. MENU LOGGED (with timer)... not combat logged. If a PvP has a problem with that, tough.
I wish there was content for people that wanted to pirate. I would have less of an issue with PvP ships that needed: cargo for the stolen booty, limpets to break the hatch and collect the loot, manifest scanner (instead of another shield booster), etc.
Anyway, you keep doing you. If you're not taking part in things like Distant Ganks, then I don't really care. And as long as they don't take solo and PG away (which some PvPers have long lobbied for), I also don't care.
I get the thrill of hunting "the most dangerous game" but I'm not interested in being your gameplay. That's why I'm not interested in Star Citizen. The number of ways other players can screw you in that game (blow up your ship, steal your ship, steal stuff off your ship, etc.)... yeah, I'll pass. Not opposed to games like that existing, but it's not what I want to play.
He is looking for competent opposition (more competent than NPCs).
It's not his fault that 90% of random players out there are actually easier to shoot down than those weak and braindead bots.
Sadly, menu logging and combat logging are equated the same way to the PvP community. You are leaving the client intentionally to avoid an interaction, there is no difference between the two whatsoever. Due to both of these "mechanics" (being generous), Piracy vs players is mostly a dead profession. There is a lot of risk, and a lot of time consuming loops to jump through for significantly less gains than you would achieve in hours when compared to running one delivery mission.
Just to be clear. I'm not advocating for the removal of Solo or PG, they absolutely still should be an option. I'm advocating for gameplay to matter to PvP players instead of just throwing stupid restrictions at them out of bad faith.
Powerplay is a fantastic example of this, its an inherently PvP based system and is largely irrelevant to PvP players due to them not being able to have an impact on expansion or defence due to players being able to manipulate the system from Solo/PG. You can't blockade or defend against ghosts, so thusly the playstyle is made irrelevant due to how other modes interact with the competitive-based system.
I don't have a problem with people playing in either mode, I do have a problem with a sect of players having their chosen profession be pointless regarding the larger gameworld due to poorly considered design of a system that was built for competition.
Once again. If PvP players have a cause and structure to compete over, random ganking really does become a rarity. We'll be too busy vying for ground or fighting against other well organized factions instead. To keep it on topic, nor would there be any requirement for overly harsh penalties as suggested by the OP here.
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I'm not sure about your assessment. Against a fairly ordinary player combat build you have 32 seconds of shielding under sustained fire (if you put all power to SYS) and not enough speed to break mass lock. With balanced pips, shields down in 19 seconds.Coriolis EDCD Edition
A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerouss.orbis.zone
As a trade ship this is perfectly capable of not being blown up when attacked
Bulwark vs Engineered PmkII
My trade cutter only carries 672 tons and can handle maybe 2 NPC Anacondas (one at a time) with system security to assist. Against players it has to run, and medium ships (can't outrun) will gank me every time. (To be fair, I've improved a bit and upgraded to prismatics since last time anyone tried, but a good PVPer would have no issues against me). The 64 tons of potential cargo I give up for size 6 prismatics just so I can maybe break mass lock and run means I frequently have to take an additional run to finish a cargo mission, and the fact that it has cargo bays at all means it isn't optimized enough to defeat a player ship in combat. Even if I did break mass lock and run, as the OP noted, I'll just get interdicted right back to where I ran from.
Completely off topic--why do you have an interdictor on your "trade" ship?
Worth noting, if you want to truly escape a player trying to shoot you down, you should high-wake to another system, not try to low-wake and be forced to try to outrun masslock.
There is no masslock when jumping to another system, and there is no risk of repeated interdictions. 99.9%r of PvP players won't even bother to try to work out where you jumped to.
Trying to hop back into cruise and carry on trying to reach the destination, is a mistake and thusly is punished by another interdiction
Trust me, you're totally safe jumping out to another system and waiting till it calms down in the system you were heading too, or jumping back in with the hope the PvP player/s have found another target and are busy, thusly allowing you safe passage.
If they're still in cruise, jump back out for a couple of minutes until you have found an opening, if you see them interdicting another ship when you re-enter the system, thats your time to move, and make it quick because they likely wont be busy for long.
Deliberately overshoot your target with SCO and thusly you are facing them when they pop back into cruise themselves, this allows you a greater window to reach your target unimpeded.
I think Fdev should have made the power play only areas of Stronghold Carrier instances (not the system itself) and everything in those instances Open Only. I think that is approx a few hundred systems with the potential for those ship instances in them all together currently. Non Power Players do not even see the stronghold carrier instances in system I think. The number of stronghold systems can change weekly with the pp tick, and only so many of those systems have carrier instances spawn.
There is no market for non combat players in those instances if you are pledged to an opposing power, as you are an enemy. Just hacking the ships, sabotage, or outright combat. Not sure if would keep both groups (open only crowd vs all modes crowd) happy. But it could be a very small experiment to see if players like it. It should allow for the combat players to have a reason to combat as it relates to pp2. Maybe even create missions for those instances.
Would it give combat focused players a reason to fight for pp2.0 powers instead of blowing up random ships in other places? Only one way to find out
There is no market for non combat players in those instances if you are pledged to an opposing power, as you are an enemy. Just hacking the ships, sabotage, or outright combat. Not sure if would keep both groups (open only crowd vs all modes crowd) happy. But it could be a very small experiment to see if players like it. It should allow for the combat players to have a reason to combat as it relates to pp2. Maybe even create missions for those instances.
Would it give combat focused players a reason to fight for pp2.0 powers instead of blowing up random ships in other places? Only one way to find out
PowerPlay, especially PP2, isn't a PvP activity. If you want to say it should be I'll agree, but it isn't. It's designed to give victory to people who grind rares (at the moment; maybe this will change).
No-one is usurping anything by playing the game in a way which FD have chosen to make the most effective way of getting merits.
It is though? I agree its very based around rare trading at the moment, but it is inherently a competitive mechanic.
Players are grinding to push their chosen faction, whilst others push theirs to compete with the prior group, this is PvP, allbeit indirect PvP of course, but PvP nonetheless.
By grinding rares, no, but by doing it in solo/PG, very much yes. There is no intervention from other players, not even a risk of such, and thusly their efficiency is higher. (538 ton cargo load for the Cutter in Open with a size 8 Prismatic to detter their would-be killers, vs the shieldless, solo/PG Cutter with 794 tons of cargo)
Currently, efficiency is the name of the game when it comes to pushing a faction successfully, those who can max their efficiency, will always do better than those that have to make concessions regarding that. Hence we see a gulf comparing what solo and PG players can achieve vs Open players.
He could solve this "issue" by just asking people if they want to PvP.He is looking for competent opposition (more competent than NPCs).
It's not his fault that 90% of random players out there are actually easier to shoot down than those weak and braindead bots.
Yes, but I am old. Fumbling with the controls to pull up a system to jump to takes longer than even my size 6 prismatics can hold... and then I die fumbling with controls, not fighting like a true Scot or running like a true trader.
Pro-tip, lock your jump point as you enter the system, as a trader or explorer, you should have an out as soon as you get into the system, always make sure to do this first and your survival chances will increase dramatically.
What is it the military like to say? The 6 P's? Proper preparation prevents **** poor performance, or something to that effect.
Very ironic statement, given the topic of discussion, PvP and ganking.
Not really.
I'm here trying to have a constructive conversation, I'm not acting holier than thou and talking down to people over what amounts to a difference of opinion with a smirk on my face.
It is ironic. Because the discussion is surrounding players that decide to have nothing to do with other players. Because of the undesired interaction. See how that is?
Then play in solo or PG, like i said before. No issue with that whatsoever. Just an issue with how the players that do as such seem to think slapping those who prefer less-legal playstyles with a bunch of overly harsh punishments whilst locking their playstyle out of the larger game is an acceptable means of continuing.
Quite frankly if there is any irony here, its the vitriol directed towards the playstyle whilst the actual PvP players attempt to have a reasonable discussion about how to improve the game.
One would expect that the "gankers" would be the unpleasant ones, though it very much doesn't seem to play out like that in practice.
LOL, you're a pro trader?
Avoiding ganking is never on the top of my list of reasons for being in a system. I'm there for a purpose, one that jumping out of system won't help.
(Besides, while I'm locking in my destination on entry to the system I get interdicted by an NPC because I'm hanging out at the entry point).
If getting ganked is so likely that I always need to have one foot in the exit door, I'm just going into solo mode.
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