Ganking People in Sol

Until then, Sol-o it is.
I see what you did there. But popular locations like these I definitely never visit in Open...

... and what do you mean with "non-dual-purpose defenses" and making defensive/offensive options the same? Not to divert the thread too much (if it hasn't already), but my brain is not getting it.
 
The biggest difference is a PvE ship can also fit to evade PvP using non-dual-purpose defences (i.e they make it hard to actually fight someone in PvP, but easier to escape PvP).

ED's biggest failure is making defensive and offensive options the same thing. When FD fix that, I'll come to Open. Until then, Sol-o it is.
I completely agree at least to my knowledge Elite Dangerous does not have the same ways to simply avoid gankers as EVE. in EVE you have near perfect stealth unless special tools are used to find you, or you come too close to something, although you must decloak to scan or interact.
(this is with the spec ops cloak device, or normal one if you're ok with not warping cloaked)
People will still catch you if you stop paying attention to Dscan, I've been ganked as soon as I decloaked by someone who was just waiting once.
But if you know what you are doing and not looking for a fight you an avoid gankers most of the time.

I was once in a system FULL of enemy players and they were looking for me. but I managed to escape thanks to that.
 
PVP in Thargoid zones should have been anticipated from the devs from the inception of AX combat.

The AX weapon development arc has been rather clunky imho.

First generation human AX weapons are not effective (but you can still buy them). Grind your backside off farming mats to unlock the first tier guardian gear (that you can still buy), then create new mechanics that give better guardian gear with less grind (that you can buy from special ship vendors), then nerf all guardian gear with an AOE DOT from "antiguardian fields" (sort of a spit in the face to the previous grind participants), create special modules that let you carry more than the arbitrary 4 weapon limit, then release human AX weapons that work OK without grind (can get from many vendors) that are not vulnerable to "antiguardian fields" . Don't forget bugged AX fighters that mess with instancing, cannot be effectively used by NPC pilots, and are vulnerable to the "antiguardian field", and require their own extensive grind unlocks.

Add in another weird cul de sac of corrosive missiles that do poor damage to human ships, and no damage to Thargoid ships (but require Thargoid mat unlocks).

Layer on top of that AX weapon nerfs that make them useless against human ships.

A newcomer to this part of the game is hit with a wall of, well, less than accessible engagement with the added fun of impotent AX weapons in PVP.

I think it is fair to say that AX combat is an important feature of the game and is here to stay, as is PVP.

I recommend that FDEV do a few things to improve this situation.

1) Remove all lower tier human AX and Guardian weapons from the game.
2) Create an antiguardian "null field" module that protects the guardian modules at the expense of significant power and mass.
3) Replace the current AX fighters, with new ones (no change in models required) simply have them carry the "null field" module.
4) Allow all guardian / AX weapons / fighters to do full damage to human ships.

I'd like to head to Sol and participate, but I have to say, it looks daunting and unfun to pick the right build for the current game environment. Super bummed out about it too.
 
AX weapons being unable to touch human-engineered ships goes back to a time FD garden walled Thargoid, Powerplay and regular ED play separately. Well those walls are coming down, it's time a new generation of AX weapons to do damage, period.

Otherwise, what are we going to do when the time comes that Thargoid controlled humans driving human ships escort Thargoid invasion fleets?
 
Remove all lower tier human AX and Guardian weapons from the game.
A. There are some niches for the standard human AX weapons to exist. Titan builds, for example, generally favor the use of regular enhanced AX multicannons because their thermal load can be controlled much easier than the Azimuth counterpart, so a single C2 beam can keep the ship's heat level under the detection threshold.

B. Technically no argument about the Guardian weapons except for the Gauss cannon, its pre-engineered version is generally regarded as an inferior module or sidegrade due to a nonsensical rapid fire modification and lowering the optimal range before damage dropoff. Plus you also can't take modshards to a Titan.
 
I see what you did there. But popular locations like these I definitely never visit in Open...

... and what do you mean with "non-dual-purpose defenses" and making defensive/offensive options the same? Not to divert the thread too much (if it hasn't already), but my brain is not getting it.
I'll throw it in spoiler tags to keep it aside

So when I say dual-purpose, I'm meaning in a role context, rather than a function context. So... shields are single-purpose from a functional perspective, but dual-purpose in that it can be used by, say, combat players as well as non-combat players.

In Elite, essentially, anything a non-combat player could use to defend themselves from PvP can also be used by an aggressor to attack you successfully in relative security. Shields, Weapons, Chaff, Heatsinks, Speed, Agility... it's all available and usable by combat and non-combat pilots.... there's no subtlety to it. A key part here is it's impossible for a non-combat pilot to fit their ship in such a way that forces an combat pilot to compromise their own combat fit, in order to counter that. It's just a glorified "my numbers are bigger than yours" and throw in some twitch reflexes.

Meanwhile in EVE, Combat pilots will invariably fit a combination of Weapons, Armour, (or[1]) Shields, Speed, Agility and EW. But what's a non-combat pilot fit? The main differences are they'll fit PvE enabling equipment and counter-EW equipment.

One example is warp-core stabilisers. I won't go through the mechanics, but combat pilots will usually fit a warp jammer or similar to lock-down a target in order to kill them.
Non-combat pilots will fit warp-core stabilizers which are non-dual-purpose counters to warp jamming effects.
Why are they non-dual-purpose? Because they tank your targeting time hard, so much so your ship could be destroyed before getting a targeting lock... so combat pilots simply can't practically use them as a defence.
But why do Non-com players? Because (activity-dependent) they won't fit guns, as they never intend to shoot... so who cares that you can't lock quickly... you never wanted to shoot anyway.
Combat pilots can counter this with more jammers. But what do jammers come at the sacrifice of? Shields... creating an exploitable vulnerability. This is a common thread for all fittings.

Then there's cloaking systems which are able to be used for very specialised combat vessels and PvE fittings... but are fairly useless for PvP due to a hard-cooldown on targeting. There's ways to counter these too.. but then there's the equivalent of SCO-ready ships, which can exclusively use an advanced cloak with no drawbacks, but they're also not great at combat, yet excellent at PvE.

Speed and agility for combat is usually an Afterburner for +100% speed. But for PvE you can go a microwarpdrive for +500% speed, at the expense of signature radius... but if you're in a chonky hauler, things would be getting wrecking shots already, but it's enough to make speed-based combat ships get wrecked if they use them.

There's definitely awkward/specialised combat fits that might use some of these, but they're memes at most.

Lastly, it's possible to fit a combat ship that carries all the counters to these defence systems and can lock down even the most seasoned PvE pilot. You know what that combat ship is vulnerable to then? Everything. They'll have no defences or weapons to speak of, and a basic transport with a couple missiles or a single escort would wreck it.

There are sufficient of these systems that a thoughtful player can create a fitting and plan their activity to their strengths. And EVE puts PvP as a first-class citizen... which not only means providing the right environment for dynamic PvP, but also giving non-com players the ability to A) defend themselves, and B), still undertake the activity they wanted to do.

There's heaps of things Elite could do in this regard. Unfortunately when it intorduces activities, it does so with no regard for PvP and both how to undertake it, and how to avoid it.

Like, seriously, what's a player in a salvage ship meant to do about a PvP combatant at a titan wreck, except "Be somewhere else" or otherwise go to another wreck? That's not interesting at all.

And most obviously, an AX fit has no place in PvP.

[1] In EVE, dual-tanking is generally a bad idea and doesn't work for most things.
 
And they wonder why Open Only would never work, anytime we get to team up for some fun and the general good there are those that just want to ruin the fun.
PG and Solo are the only places to enjoy yourself.

O7
Actually Block works well. There aren't really many of them, and once Open is cleansed it's the best AX experience. The present passenger evacuations might be a special case; you don't really need co-op play for those.
 
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I laugh when they call themselves pvpers. As if their victims have builds that can fight back.
I laugh everytime when I see such post. Gankers dont gank becaue they look for "challenge" but because of how fast ships can go boom, given poor quality bulids that are around in open... such ships that die in few seconds after interdiction.... and best part that open is full of such.

Also, the majority gankers I am aware of, are pvp'ers by default, often with years of PVP experience, and countless 1v1's or wing fights done under thier belt, with equal bulids and skilled opponents, before they went into gank. Some of them surely favors going after "fodder", since its easy way to rack up cmdrs kills, and threads like that is surely extra "bonus" as some might already mentioned.


Whenever in case of "fodder" can fight back or not, they not gonna win (they can either only can run or die), unless they are pvp'ers themselfs, because of what I did explained above. And mostly fodders are far from being PVP'ers themselfs... very far.

They may as well shoot NPCs. They get more of a fight with the AI.
Npc dont come to forums and make such threads, neither post such as you did. Certian gankers will actually take that as extra win for them.

But youre right, npcs are usualy more competent in combat than majority of "victims", thats for sure. :ROFLMAO:
 
Threads of this nature are the reason players gank.
The reason players gank is because they have no skill or no appetite for a fair fight.
Remember; no tears = no fun.
The tears i constantly see are from ganlers on here complaining they have no targets or because they get blocked

Either way, having a blast in SOL on Mobius, no gankers, Lots of fun

O&
 
"Down with the Humanity. Hail to the Far God." - Im fighting for the Thargoids and im scanning AX pilots for bounties. Stay clean or die, Criminal scum.

As long as you communicate that in game, and not just outside of the game as an excuse, that's not ganking. Carry on, CMDR.
Not like you did at the Spire;
I watched you send the Orthrus hunters to the Rebuy screen and saw them repeatedly ask why you were shooting.
An incoherent statement after they were destroyed doesn't meet the criteria.
 
Gankers have ruined this game for pirates. I used to dabble a little bit back in the early days. Instead of paying tribute and going on their way, people just run away or log off in fear of being destroyed. Can't blame them.
It isn't fear, they'd wish that. It is disgust and visceral hatred for the kind of bullies whose only game is to ruin someone else's. Until the developers change their stance on this "culture", everything to do with player cooperation and social functions remains hampered.
 
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