Everyone new to the Thargoid war needs to understand first that Sol cannot be defended directly!

[Alaska Sædelære]

They don't want it to be over too soon. It would be a waste of development effort to tell everyone upfront how to solve this episode.

Also, does a majority really want to save a virtual Sol when you can shovel credits and ranks in senseless cycles?

 

[Kayvan]

Thanks for posting this thread. Now, how to get the memo to all the CMDRs that don't visit the forum?

I already made an equivalent post on the FB community group. I guess it has helped a few players to find their way. But still a drop in the ocean compared to the recorded traffic.

IDK which youtube content creators are reading here, but if they made videos spreading the message, that might help.

 

[Tifu]

Thanks for posting this thread. Now, how to get the memo to all the CMDRs that don't visit the forum?

Someone could regularly post the link to this thread and the invasion status report @Aleks Zuno posted on the Sol system chat. Not everyone will listen but it's a start

DCoH Overwatch - Thargoid Overwatch - Defense Council of Humanity

DCoH Overwatch tracks the progress of humanity's war against the Thargoids in Elite Dangerous.

dcoh.watch

 

[DjVortex]

Because why would anyone ever need this sort of information IN THE GAME, is anyone's guess, and apparently a community fad.

One of the things I like about Elite Dangerous is the lack of hand-holding. There are many, many things that you have to discover yourself, or get help from others, because they aren't explained in the game. And that's not always a bad thing.

When unusual events happen in real life, do you get a long pamphlet posted to your home address explaining everything in excruciating detail about it? No. People need to figure it out.

 

[Vlad plus]

No. People need to figure it out.

What do you need to figure it out here? There is nothing new here, these activities are not one year old, everything has been known for a long time, there are also sites axi and dcoh

 

[DjVortex]

What do you need to figure it out here? There is nothing new here, these activities are not one year old, everything has been known for a long time, there are also sites axi and dcoh

Read the part that I quoted, which is what I was responding to.

 

[Doctor Dread]

My house is on fire! But forget about that, let's hose down the other homes in the neighborhood instead!

I guess this works okay as a game mechanic, but as a story about defending Sol, it's disappointing.

I agree.

Yes I know this is how it goes, you defeat the Titan by liberating the worlds it controls and then blah blah... but we're defending Sol!
It is natural to fight around Earth, Mars, Moon, that's what everybody imagine when they say "let's defend our planet!". Not 61 Cygni or WISE 1506+7027.

Anticlimax of something that could have been epic.

 

[Brrokk]

I agree.

Yes I know this is how it goes, you defeat the Titan by liberating the worlds it controls and then blah blah... but we're defending Sol!
It is natural to fight around Earth, Mars, Moon, that's what everybody imagine when they say "let's defend our planet!". Not 61 Cygni or WISE 1506+7027.

Anticlimax of something that could have been epic.

It's epic.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Anticlimax of something that could have been epic.

Well, this is where a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

If you don't know how the Thargoid war works - because you've not been paying much attention, since it hasn't hit any important systems before - you can grab a ship, show up to Sol, probably get blown up repeatedly but nevertheless see all the Thargoid stuff for the first time and be excited about it. At some point, maybe in a few weeks, you'll get a message that the Titan is vulnerable and you can rescue (what's left of) the Sol system ... and essentially get to speed run through most of the interesting Thargoid War scenarios of the last two years, without so much of the repetitive bits in between.

Who cares that you're not actually progressing the conflict in the optimal way, and therefore the Titan might take a week longer to fall? The vast majority of players are not speed-runners anyway.



Meanwhile, on the spreadsheet-and-optimisation side:
- for the first time since Hadad went down (and arguably longer than that) we have a Titan that's actually throwing out attacks fast and hard enough that its containment isn't a foregone conclusion where I can read out the likely course of the war three weeks in advance with minimal error
- rather than fighting for the last two weeks over a bunch of serial number uninhabited Col 285 ballast systems because they need to be sorted out eventually, the fight is over a whole bunch of inhabited systems (i.e. Invasions, more interesting Control fights, etc.) and they're ones people have heard of
- Cocijo finally gets to be positioned somewhere that "only attack inhabited systems" rule change really works to its advantage.

That's pretty exciting too.



This is basically just the same concern as two years ago when AX defenders were winning twelve systems out of eighty, but if you added up all the fractional percentages across the rest of the systems it could theoretically have been fourteen. Yes, it's worth letting people politely know that they have other options for where to fight - but it's not worth worrying about not being able to reach everyone.

It wouldn't even make that much difference if you did: the distribution of AX activity is going to follow the same distribution it always has where the top player is putting in as much firepower as maybe a hundred median players. The top player also knows where to fight, whose spreadsheets are best for focusing that, etc. So long as they're in the right place (they are, and so is probably everyone else in the top 100) don't worry if not all the hundred median players are.

 

[Uname654]

...and suddenly, my Krait Mk II, with a fancy Thargoid killing multi cannons I bought from a stronghold carrier, has became practically useless.
I used it last week to transport cans out of Sol and kill few cosmic flower-power acid heads on the way. Not any more.

Now what? I guess it's time to go back to Synuefe NL-N C23-4 and start the material grind...

 

[Brrokk]

...and suddenly, my Krait Mk II, with a fancy Thargoid killing multi cannons I bought from a stronghold carrier, has became practically useless.
I used it last week to transport cans out of Sol and kill few cosmic flower-power acid heads on the way. Not any more.

Now what? I guess it's time to go back to Synuefe NL-N C23-4 and start the material grind...

Why is it useless? My laser/AXMC Krait is still OK.

 

[Uname654]

Why is it useless? My laser/AXMC Krait is still OK.

I got blown to pieces really fast and 3 MC's+ beam had no effect on the "new?" Thargoid.
Usually, they blew up after getting hit for so long. Not this one.
I crawled out of there with 8% hull and front window mostly gone.
Usually, I managed to kill them all, collect my cargo and what ever they drop and leave with ~80% hull + fat paycheck.

 

[Uname654]

This is a slightly modified build from antixenoinitiative Krait II

EDSY

EDSY is a ship outfitting tool for Elite Dangerous

edsy.org

Not sure about the shieldless part. Feels kinda naked
Not exited about the Guardian grind. I also recall reading that Thargoids melt all that stuff anyway (could be I misunderstood).


EDIT: Forget this build. I do not have the combat level for Broo Tarquin - Beam lasers, long range.

 

[Brrokk]

I got blown to pieces really fast and 3 MC's+ beam had no effect on the "new?" Thargoid.
Usually, they blew up after getting hit for so long. Not this one.
I crawled out of there with 8% hull and front window mostly gone.
Usually, I managed to kill them all, collect my cargo and what ever they drop and leave with ~80% hull + fat paycheck.

Then that sounds like a bug. My AXMCs (you have got AX ones?) were fine last night. I soloed a Cyclops and along with some NPCs killed a Basilisk. AFAIK there are no very recent new Thargoids, although with the change in strategy I suppose some could turn up.

 

[Brrokk]

This is a slightly modified build from antixenoinitiative Krait II

EDSY

EDSY is a ship outfitting tool for Elite Dangerous

edsy.org

Not sure about the shieldless part. Feels kinda naked
Not exited about the Guardian grind. I also recall reading that Thargoids melt all that stuff anyway (could be I misunderstood).

Shields are not really much use against Thargoids and they increase heat, shouting "Look, here I am, over here!"

 

[Aleks Zuno]

Indeed it is ever so much more about knowing what affects the war then leaving Commanders to make an informed choice; the difference is only of whether one is presuming Sol activity is useful versus simply wanting to go to Sol! Said another way, if there were a Community Goal for total system strength contribution (revealed as a number for the first time!), this is for Commanders trying to affect that number.

Ideally there should not be an element of letting Commanders think that Sol actions help at present; as bad as it can be to discover that something did not help, it can only soften the impact if said discovery occurs sooner! Given the message text, it is not as if Commanders are supposed to experiment with Sol and conclude that nothing happens—unlike previous events with the Thargoid war, this time everyone is being informed about it, albeit slyly.

...and suddenly, my Krait Mk II, with a fancy Thargoid killing multi cannons I bought from a stronghold carrier, has became practically useless.
I used it last week to transport cans out of Sol and kill few cosmic flower-power acid heads on the way. Not any more.

Surely if you have a good escape-pod-evacuating vessel which can remove Scouts along its path—and perhaps even Scythes trying to stop the escape—that is very useful for any of the Invasion systems! Notably, a Scythe hyperspace attack while attempting to leave an Invasion system means that the Scythe kill counts for the Invasion, unlike with an Interceptor attack on the way in.

I got blown to pieces really fast and 3 MC's+ beam had no effect on the "new?" Thargoid.
Usually, they blew up after getting hit for so long. Not this one.

There are three different classes of Thargoid you can encounter during flight and the best AX weapon choice varies for each. It is deliberately difficult for any one starship to bring everything it needs for every possible Thargoid target!

Not sure about the shieldless part. Feels kinda naked
Not exited about the Guardian grind. I also recall reading that Thargoids melt all that stuff anyway (could be I misunderstood).

Shields are not really much use against Thargoids and they increase heat, shouting "Look, here I am, over here!"

Shielding is a choice to make, and in my opinion it helps to understand them a bit before making it! For a long time, AX combat was all about the art of the single Interceptor duel, where indeed there is a lot of merit to favouring hull instead of any shield at all. For the benefit of @Uname654, using a shield:

• Increases your heat and power usage, which needs to be lowered to avoid being targeted.
• Increases the volume in which you can be hit.
• Makes your hull vulnerable to normal Swarm attacks due to their phasing damage, also ignoring any Caustic resistance.
• Can be rendered useless within seconds if hit by a lightning attack, or if you need to use Silent Running to survive (for silence or for Caustic removal).
• Can drain your SYS power at a critical moment when you need to use a Neutraliser, Heat sink or such.

However, equipping a Shield can also be helpful:

• Swarm missiles become much less threatening to exterior modules while a Shield is active.
• Phasing is a much lower problem with normal Interceptor and Scout attacks.
• Modules are not exposed to direct attacks, noting that Glaives love to destroy FSDs, and indeed canopy is protected.
• Scythe breach drones cannot attach.
• Titan energy attacks cause much less heat or module damage.

As with almost any module, try it both ways!

 

[Phill P]

However, equipping a Shield can also be helpful:

• Scythe breach drones cannot attach.

I know you're talking about combat but, perhaps ironically, shields are actually the worst thing for rescues, as then the Scythe will slow you with it's lightning attack and take away your best defence which is speed and the ability to permaboost. Shields on a rescue ship against a Scythe don't work, they just make your life harder. Go shieldless or turn it off on your first jump out with passengers.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

Definitely that becomes a perfect example for @Uname654; if an evacuation strategy involves killing the Scythe for extra system progress then a shield can help, as opposed to an evasion strategy more focused on maximum passenger and escape pod numbers!

 

[Phill P]

if an evacuation strategy involves killing the Scythe for extra system progress

It doesn't. We didn't just theorise about this in the abstract, we tried it.

Again, rescuing and killing Scythes at the same time slows down both activities, risks losing even more people and you have to compromise your rescue ship to do it. The "extra progress" is negated by the extra time and risk and if the Scythe has company you have more of a fight on your hands than you need in a rescue ship. Time that could be spent doing more rescues. It simply doesn't work in practice. Everyone who tried was slower than those who focused on AX or rescues.

The fastest strategy that works for rescues is to stack mission bonuses as quickly as possible, anything else is more of a distraction than its "progress" is worth.

I'd have added it as an option to our documentation for those who don't mind fighting if it was useful. As well as specifying that it is optional. Because there's another factor involved.

Many people do rescues (and deliveries) as a way to help without having to fight. The first thing you see when you enter our Discord is this;

"Rescues provide a non combative way of helping to defeat Thargoid attacks for those who don't wish to fight the aliens, or to provide a mixture of activities for everyone else. Supplies and support are just as important as soldiers in a war."

Non combative. They are not just words to be casually ignored. We have no "strategy that involves killing", we are not "a branch of AX" and that's not a debate.

Asking them to fight or trying to persuade them to fight is, knowingly or otherwise, trying to coerce them into doing what they specifically don't want to do and didn't come to us for. Discarding the philosophy that is fundamental to the squad's core values as if it was nothing more than a thought experiment. Tone deaf, overbearing and unacceptable.

And that is why I always tell people what combat is going on but never order anyone to do it, even when it's not a waste of time. It would go against the entire humanitarian and above all neutral philosophy of the squad to do so. I leave it to them as individual pilots in the knowledge that they don't represent the squad when they fight, only themselves, and include myself in that because I wouldn't be the head of anything if I didn't feel I could lead by example. I'm PDES when I rescue, when I fight I'm Phill P. And that's not going to change no matter how many people with calculators think they know better.

For the same reason individual squad members who want to do Powerplay can pledge to who they like but don't represent the squad when they do. The reason for this should be obvious but in case it isn't, we are the in game equivalent of an emergency service and that is for anyone who needs it, not just those in the right gang. You wouldn't ask the fire brigade to take sides, or the paramedics, and you don't ask us either. The answer will be no. Powerplay therefore has nothing to offer us as a squadron.

 

[Tifu]

Again though, trying to rescue and kill Scythes actually slows down both activities, that's why I say kill or rescue but not both at once. Plus if the Scythe has company you have more of a fight on your hands than you need for a rescue ship, so the extra progress is balanced by the time wasted to achieve it. Time that could be spent doing more rescues.

I was thinking that a wing of three ships, two scythe killers and one rescue ship, makes sense. The rescue ship would concentrate on rescues but it's also bait.