Joystick Opinions On The VKB Gladiator NXT Evo?

[Garix]

Just replaced my X56 with a VKB Gladiator NXT and NXT OTA.
The OTA as a throttle is taking a bit of getting used to (had every intention of using the throttle from my X56 but it died) but I'm getting there with it.
The joystick is a joy to use to be fair. Never had any real issues with my X56 but it was getting a little long in the tooth and wanted something a bit smoother.
The Gladiator NXT is certainly that. With spades.

Cracking bit of kit

 

[krazmuze]

I use dual VKB NXT sticks and VKB pedals, as it says in my sig

Erm... they is good !
Might get myself one of them fancy sideways sticks, if I have any dosh after Crimbo.

It is way more comfortable on the hand for sure, it can revert to sticking up as well. I might buy an adaptor for the main stick if twisting it starts to give me carpal tunnel. - though not sure how well that will translate pitch/roll/yaw as far as the hand/brain is concerned.

And the current rev has extra connector ports for attaching all kinds of other accessories.

If my hand/brain can adapt it to xbox emulation I might put away the console controller for other games. I have already been thru 2 of the starfield special edition controllers and the B button is now getting stuck (starfield is what got me interested in ED for all the sim stuff I wish starfield had done). So VKB being modular and inherently supporting right to repair - that itself is a big win. I have a huge collection of Logitech ergo mouses because the fire button always mushes out on me after about a year.

 

[krazmuze]

Yeah there are no defaults / presets for those but you can find lists (and images) of other people's bindings at edrefcard:

EDRefCard: supported devices

Was not clear to me if it was just for printouts or for saving/loading the game profile itself. Bookmarked it as I thought I found another post saying the game wipes your profile if it ever starts with the stick disconnected - I do that with the xbox controller all the time. So is it useful for just that? - I prefer to build my own profile one button at a time - best way to learn it.

 

[Fnord Velkor]

Was not clear to me if it was just for printouts or for saving/loading the game profile itself. Bookmarked it as I thought I found another post saying the game wipes your profile if it ever starts with the stick disconnected - I do that with the xbox controller all the time. So is it useful for just that? - I prefer to build my own profile one button at a time - best way to learn it.

The link I gave was just to all the supported devices. If you click on one it gives you a picture showing the button numbering - you can use that to write your own assignments.

The site has a range of published bindings - there you can see what other people have assigned to their sticks - you can even download one (or more) of the bindings file to act as a starting point if you wish. If you select the stick you want to see in the top panel, then click the "Search" bar - the site shows all those that people have published for that stick.

EDRefCard: public configurations

The only time you get your bindings file "wiped" is if you use "custom" as the bindings file name - rename as per the instructions in the thread I link below and you will have no problems. (I have never had my bindings "wiped".)

lost your binds? want hasstle free backed up binds look no further

keybindings can reset if you visit the control section without one of your usual devices used to play the game ie hotas , xbox pad etc not plugged in or at that present moment is undetected by windows as it thinks your just using keyboard and mouse it simply rewrites your binds for you...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[krazmuze]

The only time you get your bindings file "wiped" is if you use "custom" as the bindings file name - rename as per the instructions in the thread I link below and you will have no problems. (I have never had my bindings "wiped".)

lost your binds? want hasstle free backed up binds look no further

keybindings can reset if you visit the control section without one of your usual devices used to play the game ie hotas , xbox pad etc not plugged in or at that present moment is undetected by windows as it thinks your just using keyboard and mouse it simply rewrites your binds for you...

forums.frontier.co.uk

[EDIT Ooops I missed that it saves to users appdata and did not find it - so I went looking for it in the game install dir and got confused- then I was looking on my D: drive where I had remapped My Documents, but like a lot of annoying programs it insisted on using the AppData over on my C: drive - so the instructions was fine and I can see the files I need to rename to save them to the menu when I finish with Custom]

I am OK starting with an empty one as I will go thru control mapping and map things one by one

So I was able to push up on the right stick for pitch and it registered it as [Joy Y-Axis] the problem is I did the same for throttle on the left stick and it also shows up as [Joy Y-Axis]. It kept both of them so it seems to know there are two sticks, I would expect if it saw only one stick then it would assign one or the other not both.

So is there something I need to do to give it the labels of JoyL and JoyR - this is going to get very confusing. I do see in the .binds file they got different device numbers along with the key name - but I highly doubt I can change that since I did find G:\Program Files\Epic Games\EliteDangerous\Products\elite-dangerous-odyssey-64\ControlSchemes\DeviceButtonMaps\Readme.txt which says how IF the device is in the DeviceMappings.xml and the example is for VPCThrottle/Panel - but I suspect even if I could find the VID/PID for NXT Gladiators they might be the same product since they are the same stick and base for OTA with just a sideways hardware adapter. And even if I did figure it out - every update would wipe this installed file change anyways.

So did I miss something or do all these two stick setups just have confusing mappings where they cannot ref the controls in game and figure out which stick is which?

 

[Uname654]

I have been thinking about getting VKB Gladiator but the software, to get the stick configured, is Windows only. That's a serious show stopper unless it runs with Wine.

 

[Riverside]

I have been thinking about getting VKB Gladiator but the software, to get the stick configured, is Windows only. That's a serious show stopper unless it runs with Wine.

The stick itself is recognised as a generic USB controller & should work with any OS that supports USB. The software is powerful but it's not essential.

What OS are you using? Could be worth asking on the VKB forum maybe? What are you currently using that works with your OS of choice?

They make good quality, good value hardware. I went through several sticks with most lasting less than a year in my hands, I've had my Gladiator MkII for nearly 4 years & thousands of hours of use. It's loosened up a bit but it's still tighter than a new T-16000.

 

[Fnord Velkor]

...
So I was able to push up on the right stick for pitch and it registered it as [Joy Y-Axis] the problem is I did the same for throttle on the left stick and it also shows up as [Joy Y-Axis]. It kept both of them so it seems to know there are two sticks, I would expect if it saw only one stick then it would assign one or the other not both.
...
...And even if I did figure it out - every update would wipe this installed file change anyways.
...

Yeah the bindings system in Elite is not exactly the best thought-out system (I am being polite) it is so bad that in over 10 years they have not found (time / anyone who knows how / any other excuse / delete as appropriate) to provide a "SAVE AS" facility for our controls settings.

Yes the in-game pages only show Joy axis or Joy button but not which joy it is referring to. For example I have two VKBs and two MFDs so there are four different "Joy button X" and only within the binds file can you tell which device it is referring to.

I have never updated my stick's firmware so the ID never changes. Running a find-and-replace in notepad on one's binds file is not very difficult if you ever have such an issue I would have thought.

 

[Fnord Velkor]

I have been thinking about getting VKB Gladiator but the software, to get the stick configured, is Windows only. That's a serious show stopper unless it runs with Wine.

I did a quick search on their support forum for the info but it was not very successful. People have used the sticks under Linux and Mac but I can't see any specific reference to WINE (I know nothing about that). Here is a bit from an official VKB reply to someone on their forum:

" ...
you don't need our software utilities to fly; you need them to configure your devices and diagnose the problems.
Calibration is a VERY important thing, and it MUST be performed inside our soft. For that you may use a friend's PC or a Windows virtual machine on a Mac.
Profiles and settings are stored in the device. So calibrating your device on computer A makes it ready to be used on computers B through Z, regardless the OS. Same goes about the profiles. Set up your joystick on a PC, save, disconnect it from the PC, plug it into a Mac, and enjoy all your settings the way you edited them."

I don't know if that helps you.

 

[Uname654]

I did a quick search on their support forum for the info but it was not very successful. People have used the sticks under Linux and Mac but I can't see any specific reference to WINE (I know nothing about that). Here is a bit from an official VKB reply to someone on their forum:

" ...
you don't need our software utilities to fly; you need them to configure your devices and diagnose the problems.
Calibration is a VERY important thing, and it MUST be performed inside our soft. For that you may use a friend's PC or a Windows virtual machine on a Mac.
Profiles and settings are stored in the device. So calibrating your device on computer A makes it ready to be used on computers B through Z, regardless the OS. Same goes about the profiles. Set up your joystick on a PC, save, disconnect it from the PC, plug it into a Mac, and enjoy all your settings the way you edited them."

I don't know if that helps you.

Wine is just a compatibility layer that allows Windows programs to be used in Linux and yes, I know the software is only needed for configuring the stick.

 

[Uname654]

Oh, and one more thing. As I was admiring the Gladiator NXT Omnithrottle, I realized this has no center detent and searching for a possible solution I fond it cant be done.
The dead zone, I currently have set for the Thrustmaster T16000 throttle, is not really a solution. It's more like a halfarse hack . I do not like using a button to reverse the direction. DZ is all i got.
I think getting the STECS Throttle System would be absolute overkill assuming I can program it to flip the thruster direction.

 

[the100thmonkey]

I have been thinking about getting VKB Gladiator but the software, to get the stick configured, is Windows only. That's a serious show stopper unless it runs with Wine.

The software might run, but as the USB devices are abstracted, I doubt it will see the stick.

Depending on what you want to do, you could use Input Remapper, but that does come with limitations, such as only being able to create one virtual controller.

I guess you could set up a VM and pass through a USB controller to the guest, install the software on that and then program the stick. It seems like using a hammer to crack an egg, but it's an option.

 

[BL1P]

It is way more comfortable on the hand for sure, it can revert to sticking up as well. I might buy an adaptor for the main stick if twisting it starts to give me carpal tunnel. - though not sure how well that will translate pitch/roll/yaw as far as the hand/brain is concerned.

And the current rev has extra connector ports for attaching all kinds of other accessories.

If my hand/brain can adapt it to xbox emulation I might put away the console controller for other games. I have already been thru 2 of the starfield special edition controllers and the B button is now getting stuck (starfield is what got me interested in ED for all the sim stuff I wish starfield had done). So VKB being modular and inherently supporting right to repair - that itself is a big win. I have a huge collection of Logitech ergo mouses because the fire button always mushes out on me after about a year.

So my controlas are :-
Left stick is :- thrust , left, right, up, down.
Right stick is :- pitch, roll, yaw.
Pedals are :- throttle, forward and backward.

I fly 99.9% FA OFF.
0.1% FA ON is for combat in gravity (planetary AX). Because I tend to crash into the surface because gravity gets a hold and you cant get out of it with fa off.
So I turn it on to counter the Gravity Glide Speed.

 

[krazmuze]

Yeah the bindings system in Elite is not exactly the best thought-out system (I am being polite) it is so bad that in over 10 years they have not found (time / anyone who knows how / any other excuse / delete as appropriate) to provide a "SAVE AS" facility for our controls settings.

Yes the in-game pages only show Joy axis or Joy button but not which joy it is referring to. For example I have two VKBs and two MFDs so there are four different "Joy button X" and only within the binds file can you tell which device it is referring to.

I have never updated my stick's firmware so the ID never changes. Running a find-and-replace in notepad on one's binds file is not very difficult if you ever have such an issue I would have thought.

I guess I could just use the control card ref site to read what I got. Pita in vr to use. Bring it up in meta browser and toggle back to meta home to read it I guess or see if meta overlay works with virtual desktop or put it on my phone and read it in mr. I replaced steamvr so cannot do steam overlay

So my controlas are :-
Left stick is :- thrust , left, right, up, down.
Right stick is :- pitch, roll, yaw.
Pedals are :- throttle, forward and backward.

I fly 99.9% FA OFF.
0.1% FA ON is for combat in gravity (planetary AX). Because I tend to crash into the surface because gravity gets a hold and you cant get out of it with fa off.
So I turn it on to counter the Gravity Glide Speed.

I was thinking similar but use the throttle wheels on base use the digital wheel set for 25% step up/down so I can center throttle on the important points and use thrust as deltav keeping center springs in. Coming from starfield seems might be hard to learn how real fa off space flight works having to counter thrust but I love the idea of newtonian reality. Found a video series from a crew teaches it first lesson was stationary orbit pointing at rotating station.

 

[BL1P]

Found a video series from a crew teaches it first lesson was stationary orbit pointing at rotating station.

I used the station orbit technique too.
FA OFF feels like doing ballet in space.
Once you get used to it that is.
The bad part is going back to FA ON feels like your flying in syrup, with blinkers on.

 

[Uname654]

I think the Gladiator NXT EVO ‘Space Combat Edition’ + VPC CDT-VMAX Throttle should do the trick. It has a detent!!! Nice.

 

[krazmuze]

I used the station orbit technique too.
FA OFF feels like doing ballet in space.
Once you get used to it that is.
The bad part is going back to FA ON feels like your flying in syrup, with blinkers on.

Indeed if I learn faoff in ED I may not be able to play anything else! That is my fear - I just bought every joystick sim I could find on GOG. I used to have ball controllers (great for pitch/roll/yaw!) and played descent with those as well as a cheap TM for .mil sims - but that was when I was a kid been key/mouse a long time and only did controller recently for starfield. Even got SW Squadrons on epic despite my hate of the annoying forced EA login/launcher/DRM - it even infested my boot tray as everyone one was saying that was best SW space flight. And I still want to get back to Starfield to do the DLCs using the sticks remapped as xbox.

Are space/air the same - impulse keeps you going? My guess only used for landing/takeoff they probably did not bother with airflight sim since atmosphere was new? That would be interesting if they had different air/grav to deal with. Seen the videos of stars and black holes sucking you in and nearly destroying the ship (probably only ever posted their escapes!)

Still waiting for the lapdesk/hub tried the sticks on the recliner arms and aside my thighs and its not stable enough, and putting them on cofee table killed my back reaching for them (using media room recliner not a desk). I did see their SW lets you map a mouse HATS so I might do that since VR does not need POV HATS, put it on stick rather than taking hands off and wasting lapdesk space.

 

[krazmuze]

Oh, and one more thing. As I was admiring the Gladiator NXT Omnithrottle, I realized this has no center detent and searching for a possible solution I fond it cant be done.
The dead zone, I currently have set for the Thrustmaster T16000 throttle, is not really a solution. It's more like a halfarse hack . I do not like using a button to reverse the direction. DZ is all i got.
I think getting the STECS Throttle System would be absolute overkill assuming I can program it to flip the thruster direction.

See the other comments - idea is use the base wheel instead for throttle. You could use both analog wheels for forward and reverse throttle so it is easy to slap to zero, or you could use the digital wheels as throttle baseline steps. Then use the stick with faoff to delta base throttle with thrusters, springs return you to zero delta thrust. Have not tried setting it up yet myself and it seems faoff requires lots of training.

 

[Uname654]

@krazmuze , what is a "base wheel"?
What is actually kinda surprising is that there are no mid price level (150-250) throttles with a center detent.
A tiny spring plunger ball-bearing + spring in a tube - one end closed - would do the trick while sliding over a notch/hole (btw, what is it called? I am sure it has a name)

edit: found it: https://www.mcmaster.com/2277A51/

 

[krazmuze]

@Uname654 you can see them on their website the ota is same base and grip they only change the grip adaptor and it's convertible. Base is three function buttons and three wheels . One is digital up down center could map that as a throttle stepper One is analog but no center detent so for throttle use one base for forward the other for reverse like if you mapped throttle to floor pedals. Last one is just like a mouse wheel how fast you spin it which way. Then stick is thrust.