Powerplay kills the fun!

[Neilski]

On the other hand, it would be nice to have a better grip on exactly how much hacking those ads will cost me in reputation, because it's pretty much a guaranteed source of undermining merits. It's quite the quandary, which IMO is a good thing.

I tried it in one of the weeks when I had that as a weekly task. I think I was allied with the faction at first, and found myself right down in the unfriendly zone by the time I had finished (relogging to reactivate the ads, cough ). I then chose to do a few missions to improve my rep, which was harder than it would have been if I'd done so before getting all the way to unfriendly, of course.

My only real complaint about PowerPlay 2.0, besides the still disabled activities, is that relative to Reinforcement, Undermining is both much less efficient, and much less rewarding.

This is something I've been a bit puzzled about but have yet to actively test.
I don't fully understand what the idea is behind the SSP (the BFP makes more sense, loosely speaking). However, taking for granted that penalties exist for undermining, it still makes little sense to me that the control points earned from an action AND the personal merits earned from that action BOTH need to be nerfed by those penalties. Have I got that right? It would be more rewarding if the personal merits were untouched by the penalties, though obviously doing the actual undermining would still be a slog.

 

[Markov Chaney]

It works as that, but on the other hand it also works perfectly fine solo provided you don't expect to be making big changes to the map on your own.
- you always end up equal or ahead by having access to Powerplay rank rewards (too often "equal" because a lot of them are really situational, but still)
- no matter how slowly you gain merits while pledged, you gain them faster than you do unpledged.
- anything you do to get merits is at least marginally useful to the strategic game too

I honestly think there are corners of the bubble (yeah bubbles have corners, they are just metaphorical corners, no you shut up) where a solo player could certainly Acquire a system at least, especially if they did all the minimax nonsense like emptying a T8 1T at a time. Getting all the way to stronghold, not so much.

 

[Darkfyre99]

This is something I've been a bit puzzled about but have yet to actively test.
I don't fully understand what the idea is behind the SSP (the BFP makes more sense, loosely speaking). However, taking for granted that penalties exist for undermining, it still makes little sense to me that the control points earned from an action AND the personal merits earned from that action BOTH need to be nerfed by those penalties. Have I got that right? It would be more rewarding if the personal merits were untouched by the penalties, though obviously doing the actual undermining would still be a slog.

I believe that “system strength penalty” is a function of population. I get why larger systems would be harder to influence, but not why it only applies to undermining, and not acquisition or reinforcement, As for why personal merits also get the penalty… I assume that the math for personal merits is done after control points are calculated, not afterwards.

The bottom line is, based on the relative level of activity in this area, it makes little sense for those of us operating in either system to undermine the others, and there are still easily pickings as far as acquisition systems are concerned.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I don't fully understand what the idea is behind the SSP (the BFP makes more sense, loosely speaking).

It feels like a leftover from an earlier iteration of the design - and agreed, BFP makes sense in a way that SSP doesn't.

The pre-release Q&A says

Can you elaborate on how high population systems will impact Powerplay?​

Higher population is one of the many system statistics that go into determining the value of a system this also informs the resources available to the controlling Power for defending the system so those with higher populations will tend to be harder to undermine.

But this ends up just as a loop:
- why is a higher population system more valuable?
- because it's harder to undermine.
- why is a higher population system harder to undermine?
- because it's more valuable.

There isn't any obvious intrinsic reason to value one system over another
- there's potential for bridging for further Acquisition, but the bubble is mostly dense enough with inhabited systems that this mostly won't matter
- there isn't CC any more, so high population systems don't intrinsically give more to the owning Power (leaderboard position - not that that appears to do anything either! - is based on total system count, not total population or log(population) * fortification level or anything else like that)
- more valuable systems being harder to undermine is exactly the wrong way round anyway: they should be the easiest targets to encourage ongoing fights over them!
- any system is valuable as a Fortified or Stronghold for its commodity production and support radius (and possible carrier, which is based on range to other carriers, not population)

 

[DjVortex]

Stop pointing fingers at a single individual. Have you ever looked at top 10 list in your PP window? every single cmdr on that list got there through mining, and the top 1 usually makes a mil or over in a single week.

Pointing fingers? What are you even talking about?

I have been asking SEVERAL TIMES for people to explain how you get millions of merits via mining and everybody is REFUSING TO ANSWER, instead throwing some really strange incomprehensible accusations at me. You yourself now included. As if asking how is somehow wrong.

 

[Jmanis]

The factions themselves, naturally. Every time you visit a station, you can get a list of tasks (AKA missions) they need you to do . If you’re actively manipulating the BGS, you do which ever mission which is the best fit for your agenda given the constraints on your time, regardless of what it is.

That’s one way of looking at it. A needless to say, I view it completely different. I’m no longer a slave to the tyranny of the mission timer, and that’s a very good thing.

TBH, I can't make heads or tails of the point you're trying to make. In the first sentence you're saying missions let you do what best fits your constraints, in the next you're saying missions are a tyrant to your time. They're two polar opposite positions, which means i can't really address anything else.

Suffice to say, missions are no more of a "task list" than USS are. But the PP "Weekly assiugnment", that very much fits that "tyrant" descriptor.

 

[Doctor Dread]

Stop pointing fingers at a single individual. Have you ever looked at top 10 list in your PP window? every single cmdr on that list got there through mining, and the top 1 usually makes a mil or over in a single week.

Not necessarily mining.

This is mine, from the last week (all made in just one day, to be precise)

pay attention to the bar on the right, there were 10 more on the same day

Pointing fingers? What are you even talking about?

I have been asking SEVERAL TIMES for people to explain how you get millions of merits via mining and everybody is REFUSING TO ANSWER, instead throwing some really strange incomprehensible accusations at me. You yourself now included. As if asking how is somehow wrong.

...and I made it in lucrative trading (palladium, gold and silver) selling one at the time. From 52 to 78 in a looong day.

I got a mild cold with running nose 'n all, wife made me soup and tea and deserted me to her mom. I had a day off, all alone and a bit down with flu I spent the whole **** day clicking one per one per one, 362 tones in Type-8.

It was excruciatingly boring and tedious, but with good music in the background and incapacitated for anything else, it suited me for that day to sit very still and move just my index finger.
(and the day after, when I made 100 and scratched that itch)

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Not necessarily mining.

This is mine, from the last week (all made in just one day, to be precise)

pay attention to the bar on the right, there were 10 more on the same day




...and I made it in lucrative trading (palladium, gold and silver) selling one at the time. From 52 to 78 in a looong day.

I got a mild cold with running nose 'n all, wife made me soup and tea and deserted me to her mom. I had a day off, all alone and a bit down with flu I spent the whole **** day clicking one per one per one, 362 tones in Type-8.

It was excruciatingly boring and tedious, but with good music in the background and incapacitated for anything else, it suited me for that day to sit very still and move just my index finger.
(and the day after, when I made 100 and scratched that itch)

Yeah, I remember doing this trick to fix rep up to allied with near hostile factions. It's hilariously dumb.

What was someone saying about optimising the fun out of the game?

For what it's worth, I'm not blaming people for using this as a shortcut. The expression "Don't hate the player, hate the game" comes to mind.

 

[Knuttin Atoll]

Yeah, I remember doing this trick to fix rep up to allied with near hostile factions. It's hilariously dumb.

What was someone saying about optimising the fun out of the game?

For what it's worth, I'm not blaming people for using this as a shortcut. The expression "Don't hate the player, hate the game" comes to mind.

I've done it once (also in a T8) to push me over the line to unlock the concord cannon, after I burnt out on several core mining sessions previously.

Suffice to say, I will never do it again. It was one if not the most idiotically mindnumbing thing I ever did in 10 years of playing the game. Still a little ashamed of succumbing to it, tbh. Life is too short and playing games should be fun, and not be more tedious than actual work.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

gears of war 2 seriously 2.0 achievement was where I had my moment of clarity.
swinging smoke grenades in KOTH matches for hours on end to boost XP all in the name of an achievement.
thankfully that was a wake-up call which helped me escape my addiction.. sure I won't lie I may sometimes go a little out of my way to get a little something extra but am done ruining games for it.
that said.... I do wish they would put console achievements into the pc game (just so long as sensible)

 

[Dillon Fallon]

I've done it once (also in a T8) to push me over the line to unlock the concord cannon, after I burnt out on several core mining sessions previously.

Suffice to say, I will never do it again. It was one if not the most idiotically mindnumbing thing I ever did in 10 years of playing the game. Still a little ashamed of succumbing to it, tbh. Life is too short and playing games should be fun, and not be more tedious than actual work.

It just shouldn't be a thing IMO. Trade 1 ton, get 1 merit. Trade 700t, get 700 merits. That's how it should go.

I'm not going to criticise people here though because I'm old enough to remember when most games had a high score table and your name at the top of that was what was important. If there was a way to spam points to make sure we got to the top of it (and making sure your siblings didn't find out what it was) you were doing it.

 

[Darkfyre99]

TBH, I can't make heads or tails of the point you're trying to make. In the first sentence you're saying missions let you do what best fits your constraints, in the next you're saying missions are a tyrant to your time. They're two polar opposite positions, which means i can't really address anything else.

<<< Double checks the meaning of constraint, just in case I'm using it wrong.

Ok, I'm not. Here's the deal: My time to play games is very limited, and tends to come in small packets of time. Twenty minutes here, thirty minutes there. Furthermore, until PowerPlay 2.0, Elite Dangerous I always put in my "high attention" category: I can't play it, unless I know I don't have to share my attention with other tasks. As a result, there have been many missions that I would've loved to take, but couldn't due to my time constraints.

And that is because missions have timers. If I take a mission that will fail after six hours, I'm going to need to finish it before I need to log out, because picking it up again the next day isn't an option.

And there's no guarantee I'll even get to play the next day.

That isn't the case with PowerPlay 2.0. Earning merits isn't tied to a timer, with the possible exception of the weekly tick... and even that has little bearing on what I want to do. Let's say I'm in the mood for some good old fashioned infiltration to undermine my adversary. When manipulating the BGS, I have to hope that I find an appropriate mission as soon as I log in, because I need to complete it before I log out, or it fails. There's no saving it for later.

But under PowerPlay 2.0? I can take an Apex taxi to an appropriate settlement while I'm preparing supper; scout out the settlement while I'm waiting to leave to drop off someone; and then execute my cunning plan the next evening.

Suffice to say, missions are no more of a "task list" than USS are. But the PP "Weekly assiugnment", that very much fits that "tyrant" descriptor.

Why? There's no penalty if you don't complete any of the tasks, or even completely ignore all of them.

 

[Doctor Dread]

For what it's worth, I'm not blaming people for using this as a shortcut. The expression "Don't hate the player, hate the game" comes to mind.

Exactly this.

I rather enjoyed bringing rares for merits. It involved flying, searching for good rares, jumping and jumping with "tasty cargo", a proper gameplay. Most of all, it was a clear task, not requiring figuring out what to do and where, in the most unfriendly PP interface(s).

Then in their infinite wisdom FDevs removed it.

 

[Rock Hunter]

Stop pointing fingers at a single individual. Have you ever looked at top 10 list in your PP window? every single cmdr on that list got there through mining, and the top 1 usually makes a mil or over in a single week.

Not necessarily mining.

This is mine, from the last week (all made in just one day, to be precise)

[snipped for post length]

Mining seems to be extremely popular but certainly isn’t the only way.
Prior to pledging to ALD I started with Grom (only got to around level 7 or 8) then pledged to LYR where I found a system taking Palladium and Tritium donation missions. I was levelled up, and a little lighter in my pocket, in two weeks…had I been pushing and the system had a large landing pad it would’ve been a week easily.

Of course, that doesn’t help the balancing issues but mining being meta doesn’t make it the only way to make vast merit gains.

 

[Zador]

I have been asking SEVERAL TIMES for people to explain how you get millions of merits via mining and everybody is REFUSING TO ANSWER, instead throwing some really strange incomprehensible accusations at me. You yourself now included. As if asking how is somehow wrong.

You get millions of merits via mining by doing it a LOT. and a LOT more. Not just one trip. Laser mining in a Cutter for 2 hours to get 400+ Platinum nets me 60k merits. So yes I can make a million merits in one week, it would take me approximately 20 hours adding in the trading time.
I find a metallic ring with Platinum hotspot in a stronghold system for my power, mine Platinum until full, then go sell at one of the stations in the same system. Repeat... only by that point I'm bored with it and go do something else.
I tried core mining, could not get on with it. I can laser mine while half watching TV.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I thing I don't get (ok there is probably a lot I don't get)
why does the mined oods have to be mined in the local system for it to count.

surely platinum is platinum and the people asking for it why would they care if it came locally from a ring in their system or from a different system?.

I guess I get why trade may want it from certain systems (with you scratchy back in scratch yours logic between the importer and exporter but mined goods? if anything they should want them from a rival powers system that way it is depleting someone else's reserves and not their own.

gameplay wise that would work as well. bonus merits for taking reserves from a rival power system but at the same time risking rival power ships trying to boot you out.

 

[DjVortex]

Laser mining in a Cutter for 2 hours to get 400+ Platinum nets me 60k merits.

Well, isn't that interesting. In this other thread, someone told me:

In a metal rich asteroid field, platinum can only be core mined, you need the prospector limpet to tell you what is in the core. Laser mining in a metal rich asteroid field will never produce platinum

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Well, isn't that interesting. In this other thread, someone told me:

there is more than 1 way to skin a cat.... but that said I mine in metallic personally not metal rich. plenty of platinum there esp if you find a platinum hotspot.

PS you seem to be pretty aggressive against people trying to give you advice!

 

[Fnord Velkor]

Well, isn't that interesting. In this other thread, someone told me:
In a metal rich asteroid field, platinum can only be core mined, you need the prospector limpet to tell you what is in the core. Laser mining in a metal rich asteroid field will never produce platinum

That is quite correct, see this rather old chart:

 

[DjVortex]

PS you seem to be pretty aggressive against people trying to give you advice!

I'm not aggressive. I'm frustrated. Some people say one thing, other people say the completely opposite thing.