PSA: Ship-launched fighters do NOT cause lag in instances with more than one player.

[Sophokles Logimo]

Apparently this old bug is still alive in the minds of a significant portion of people.

Many years ago, there used to be an issue that was causing lag when players were using the ship-launched fighters in instances with more than one player. That was fixed I believe in 2017 or so. Still, certain people insist that it was still the case, but tests show clearly: It is not.

Be aware, though, that some people use 3rd party tools to cause lag in opponents (which is possible due to the P2P nature of some aspects of the game). Some people who dislike the general notion of ship-launched fighters in PvP thus run around and claim the lag issue was still there, and when asked for proof, they challenge you to a duel and then use the 3rd party tool to cause lag. (You can see this with tools like Wireshark.)

So if you want to use ship-launched fighters, do not be discouraged, just do it. It's fine, really.

 

[GroG79]

Ty for the PSA

Perhaps remove the part where you claim PVPers (all) use lag tools

 

[Sophokles Logimo]

Ty for the PSA

Perhaps remove the part where you claim PVPers (all) use lag tools

By no means all. Just a small subset of them. But that is how the myth is kept alive.

 

[Sophokles Logimo]

It was still causing lag in Open during the early days of the Thargoid war. While fighting a Hydra with someone’s SLF out we were all lagging, when it was destroyed it stopped.
[... ]

Interesting, though that was more than 2 years ago. Did you make a deep analysis to the cause of this? Post hoc ergo propter hoc and all that?

 

[Sophokles Logimo]

[...]
It seems unlikely that anyone was using 3rd party software to intentionally induce lag in the CZ though.

I agree, but aren't there other possible causes for lag that may have just coincided with the SLF usage in that particular instance?

Anyway, many tests by myself and others have shown that it is no longer a problem. If anyone has any current information to the contrary, I'd be very interested to hear.

 

[Sophokles Logimo]

I’m sure you’ll be happy to share the extensive testing.

It is a bit difficult to report that nothing extraordinary happened.... :->

 

[Sophokles Logimo]

Would seem quite simple to me. A simple video showing zero lag, repeated on multiple occasions with different CMDRs and different numbers of SLFs would no doubt be sufficient proof.

Ah, but that's more than just a test, that's the whole video recording and uploading thing added.

Still, it's a valid request. Might take a moment to get it done, though.

 

[Mako The Grey]

Many years ago, there used to be an issue that was causing lag when players were using the ship-launched fighters in instances with more than one player. That was fixed I believe in 2017 or so. Still, certain people insist that it was still the case, but tests show clearly: It is not....

...So if you want to use ship-launched fighters, do not be discouraged, just do it. It's fine, really.

It's still an issue. While working the last Titan core...I worked with 2 other commanders in a 3 person private group. One of the commanders was new to the Thargoid fight and was part of the group to get him familiar. While we were working the Titan core he launched his fighter (we hadn't let him know about the fighter warning) and the group immediately started experiencing a lot of lag. No third part software was at play. Personally, I think the bug is very inconsistent (hard to repeat consistently) but happens enough that the AXI group I fly in requires them not to be used in community play along with keeping crime reporting off.

 

[Sophokles Logimo]

[...]
While we were working the Titan core he launched his fighter [...] and the group immediately started experiencing a lot of lag.

Do you have a video of that, or could you make one?

Personally, I think the bug is very inconsistent (hard to repeat consistently) but happens enough that the AXI group I fly in requires them not to be used in community play

That may just be a case of outdated ideas (which this thread is supposed to finally kill) being reinforced by random happenings that were then attributed to that idea.You know, we players as Skinner pigeons.

 

[BDelacroix]

Apparently this old bug is still alive in the minds of a significant portion of people.

Many years ago, there used to be an issue that was causing lag when players were using the ship-launched fighters in instances with more than one player. That was fixed I believe in 2017 or so. Still, certain people insist that it was still the case, but tests show clearly: It is not.

Be aware, though, that some people use 3rd party tools to cause lag in opponents (which is possible due to the P2P nature of some aspects of the game). Some people who dislike the general notion of ship-launched fighters in PvP thus run around and claim the lag issue was still there, and when asked for proof, they challenge you to a duel and then use the 3rd party tool to cause lag. (You can see this with tools like Wireshark.)

So if you want to use ship-launched fighters, do not be discouraged, just do it. It's fine, really.

Good luck getting anyone to believe this.
Players kill others on site if they suspect you are using an SLF. The belief that SLF cause lag is engrained in the culture now.

 

[Mako The Grey]

Do you have a video of that, or could you make one?

Titans are no longer so no vid by me...but AXI group did a lot of vids/SLF research so might see it on there sites.

That may just be a case of outdated ideas (which this thread is supposed to finally kill) being reinforced by random happenings that were then attributed to that idea.You know, we players as Skinner pigeons.

Not really the case (in the instanceI referenced above the bug was obviously related to a SLF launch) and I also saw the bug from time to time at spire site events and smaller group AX conflict zone events...easily confirmed at the time. Last time I experienced the bug was maybe 2/3 months ago.

I've never seen it happen at non-Thargoid instances. Perhaps you're only referring to non-AX play. In that case, I agree with you from my experience. You might grab some commanders and go to the remaining AX conflict sites and test it there. Didn't see the bug at the recent HIP 22460 event...but in that case extreme precautions/directions were in place to keep SLF's away so I doubt any showed up

 

[Sophokles Logimo]

I've never seen it happen at non-Thargoid instances. Perhaps you're only referring to non-AX play. In that case, I agree with you from my experience.

Interesting. That would imply that the bug is related to the NPC's and how they react to SLF's, and not so much to the players or their SLF's themselves.

 

[Sophokles Logimo]

[...]
Players kill others on site if they suspect you are using an SLF. The belief that SLF cause lag is engrained in the culture now.

Well, luckily, we are all enlightened people who will put evidence before belief. Are we not?

 

[Mako The Grey]

DemiserofD (member here) was doing the SLF lag research on Discord. Might PM him and see if there is anything new

 

[BDelacroix]

Well, luckily, we are all enlightened people who will put evidence before belief. Are we not?

You keep telling yourself that...

 

[Elpapo]

Surely there is some PVP'ers who somewhat get laggy when its convinient for them, but thats same preety much with every other PVP game. There is just bunch of ppl who abused lag, and this is nothing new.

P2P system that elite uses its outdated and poorly made, and current generation of Fdevs have clearly no idea how to fix it, as ppl who could, are long time gone from that company - this is nothing new either.

That being said, Ship launched fighter lag is not begone, and even now, it causes quite of rubberbanding, and off-sync issues, especially if there more than two cmdrs in instance.

Even yesterday, I did indeed interdicted an random Vette in deciat, who soon as launched hes fighter, started rubber-banding all over place, while everytime I poped the SLF out of existance, that off-sync was gone...

The only times when SLF does not causes more lag than already it is, its when both cmdrs are relative close to each other and have both strong connections and both uses proper network settings (fast net - not mcdonalds wifi), but when two cmdrs are like US to EU or EU to Asia, you will get lag when such distances, and even worse lag when SLF are involved.

 

[Sophokles Logimo]

We have found the first PvPer who wants to save his preferred playstyle without ship-launched fighters, it seems.

 

[aRJay]

Well, luckily, we are all enlightened people who will put evidence before belief. Are we not?

You are from an alternate universe and I claim my five pounds.

 

[Disemboweled Ego]

It's a hard to test issue since it could be related to bandwidth and network conditions so reliably breaking things would require more players and more players already fairly reliably breaks things under the best of conditions.

I do some group stuff where we're lax about fighter use and sometimes do stuff where using them is the goal and no one is surprised that it lags, but it often does, as long as you're not using fixed weapons it can be bearable.

I was also always under the impression that the only thing fixed about fighter lag in the past was command spam which was an issue resolved way past 2017.

 

[Elpapo]

We have found the first PvPer who wants to save his preferred playstyle without ship-launched fighters, it seems.

Did I ever said that SLF are bad and needs begone or did you recall Me telling others that they should not use SLF? Did I? I dont think so. Re-read my post carefully, use german translator if must.

Look, I dont really mind SLF's in open, I can and know very well how to handle such. In-game, I dont bother telling all cmdrs around that they "should use it or not", I simply send them to thier rebui screen - like since always - them using SLF or not, have very litte to it - but just in case you did not get what I mean here, it does not save them from Me.

I dont really care about other cmdrs using SLF or not. Its thier thing and choice to being nuiance to others... but hey, its not them being nuiance, its more like other way around when I am dealin with such, so its "fair" to them, I suppose

But it all above does not change the fact that SLF are not being fixed. I deal with enough cmdrs from all over world in daily basis to be able to tell diffrence everytime there is lag or not, since my total encounters with others cmdrs are way beyond what you can comprehend. During last 10 years, I had several dozens of thousands DIRECT encounters with cmdrs - during wich - I learned and saw preety much everything about lag and its quirks. If SLF lag would be resolved properly, I would be more than happly to confirm it - yet it still have lot to be desired.

About 90% times when SLF are causing lag, its when I deal with cmdrs from obviously other part of world. Like from other literally other side of earth.
The remain 10% its when I deal with cmdrs who basically are my neighbours, and this is when lag is not noticable as with other cases.

The thing that P2P is flawed.


Lastly I might add, even if SLF would be fixed, I still rather not use them... because I simply find better use for size 5 or 6 slot for my bulids, and also, I dont limit myself to only ships that can launch SLF's - you on other hand, sounds like someone who does not dare to show up in open in anything that is not fully shield stacked vette or cutter.


I bet you started this thread because you picked fight with someone(or someone picked fight with ya), while using either vette or cutter and used SLF at it, and probly later got roasted in chat because of doing so, because the other side got rubberbanded and offsynced. As there quite lots of PVP'ers who still are quite vocal about in game, but I am not one of them - cuz again in case you misinterpert Me, I dont care about SLF's in-game and wont be stoping anyone else from using it - cant say others are in same opinion.