Any date on when thr Mandalay goes on sale for in game credits?

But becoming a gamble with loot boxes would generate even more money so why not just add those as well? After all as long as FDEV gets more money that’s great, that’s what counts right? Why have any limits? They should just copy the SC model, that seemed to generate a ton of cash.
For this the ship has already sailed, so to say. But you are right, loot boxes would even generate more money by means of introducing heavy gamble into the game. This I see problematic from the PEGI point of view. Offering new ships for ARX is not a gamble, you know what you get.

And again: it doesn't help to always fall into extremes in these discussions. P2W is a spectrum, not a clear line. Elite already is in it, and in a very reasonable way I might say. I just think that FDEV can expand on it, that's all. I love seeing new ships being added to this game, so I appreciate the approach FDEV is currently going. YMMV.
 
For this the ship has already sailed, so to say. But you are right, loot boxes would even generate more money by means of introducing heavy gamble into the game. This I see problematic from the PEGI point of view. Offering new ships for ARX is not a gamble, you know what you get.

And again: it doesn't help to always fall into extremes in these discussions. P2W is a spectrum, not a clear line. Elite already is in it, and in a very reasonable way I might say. I just think that FDEV can expand on it, that's all. I love seeing new ships being added to this game, so I appreciate the approach FDEV is currently going. YMMV.

You’re right that extreme examples are not that relevant. However if we make excuses and justify these gradual but constant extensions of the limits, then we will inevitably arrive at that same extreme point that now seems so far fetched.

Originally it was just cosmetics only and for small prices. That’s fine, it helps out with the game. Then prices increased significantly. Then it was not just cosmetics but ships as well. That’s ok though because it’s just for a limited time, only about 3 months. Then the next one was closer to 4 months. We’ll see how long the third ship takes but suggestions now are than it may take even longer than the second one.

Now if we start to justify that it would be okay to introduce large ships, more powerful than any current large ships, and make them Arx only for 6 months to a year that would move the limits yet again. Sure it’s not the extreme of gambling and loot boxes so that’s ok right?

Once that becomes normal after a while, why not start pushing the limits even more, a bit a time so that it can become normalized?
 
You’re right that extreme examples are not that relevant. However if we make excuses and justify these gradual but constant extensions of the limits, then we will inevitably arrive at that same extreme point that now seems so far fetched.

Originally it was just cosmetics only and for small prices. That’s fine, it helps out with the game. Then prices increased significantly. Then it was not just cosmetics but ships as well. That’s ok though because it’s just for a limited time, only about 3 months. Then the next one was closer to 4 months. We’ll see how long the third ship takes but suggestions now are than it may take even longer than the second one.

Now if we start to justify that it would be okay to introduce large ships, more powerful than any current large ships, and make them Arx only for 6 months to a year that would move the limits yet again. Sure it’s not the extreme of gambling and loot boxes so that’s ok right?

Once that becomes normal after a while, why not start pushing the limits even more, a bit a time so that it can become normalized?
Extreme examples are important, at least - as an example of how not to do. Frontier could go for any extreme long time ago, they didn't, for whatever reason. In the past, they had tried DLCs, Season passes, some cosmetics - nothing really worked for them. Now it looks like they're experimenting with a different approach - Monetization for an easier start, Cosmetics and Early Access for things. Any business has to change with the times, adapting it to specifics of that individual business. To me, it looks like going back to DLCs is not an option anymore, as current experiments look good and successful, plus a much safer for them, as they can produce content incrementally without big/long investments upfront, get returns faster and promote the game to get new players/sales.

It's very easy to look at it only from a point of view of bad and predatory monetization strategies other companies use, completely ignoring the fact - that there was an option to do them (for example, sell ships like that other game), yet for whatever reason the choice was made for a different approach (Early Access for a comparatively reasonable price), much more ethical, imo. Same with other things on the store.

In any case - a meaningful metric for how far it could go - are how much income it generates and how ethical Frontier decides to be about it - both are completely out of our control as players/customers, unless "Vote with your wallet" after the fact. If anyone wants for the monetization strategy to change - don't participate, if many would do that - changes would happen, although what changes they would be is impossible for us to predict, only guess - could be more predatory, could be something different, could be a shutdown.

With how prices for games and DLCs are going up right now all across the industry (because of many other factors, not just greed) and all the development/investments that go into creating new thing - if the choice is to have a DLC level content in batches sold by Early Access, or wait a long time to get it for the full price - I like the first one better. The point is - current strategy was proven successful by the previous year, and it is very flexible to what and how it can be applied, while at the same time - it is very far away from really bad and predatory practices, and with how it is right now - it looks like it specifically made not to go for the worst.

New content costs money to develop. If a player wants it now - buy it. If for whatever reason that is not an option - wait until it's available for free, as it will because it is an official strategy. Since it's for free for something that is not free to develop - wait for as long as needed. For any other company that does Live Service the same thing would look like - buy EA for a higher price or wait and then buy it for a lower price.

Yes, that is the new normalcy, and it could change again and again in the future with however the industry would change. Many changes are not good for us as consumers, but the extent of them is important - as I'm glad that Frontier doesn't give in to temptation to go for a much easier and predatory practices. If they are to continue like that - time will tell, but right now - I don't know any comparable live-service game with a better (from a consumer pov) monetization strategy.
 
In what way does the game confer permanent advantage to those who pay for something in the store?
Zero rebuy for certain ship/module combinations. This is a permanent advantage you have by just paying for it in the store, and you can't get it in the game. Yes, there are hulls that have zero rebuy from past events, but nothing similar to the pre-builds or stellar-packages of the new ships. Another permanent advantage of paying for something from the store is immediate transfer by means of selling it and deploying it again for zero costs. Is it a practical or huge advantage? No, it is not, but it confers a permanent advantage nonetheless.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Zero rebuy for certain ship/module combinations. This is a permanent advantage you have by just paying for it in the store, and you can't get it in the game. Yes, there are hulls that have zero rebuy from past events, but nothing similar to the pre-builds or stellar-packages of the new ships. Another permanent advantage of paying for something from the store is immediate transfer by means of selling it and deploying it again for zero costs. Is it a practical or huge advantage? No, it is not, but it confers a permanent advantage nonetheless.
True, noting that Powerplay rank can confer zero rebuy on any ship in particular circumstances, and that any store purchased ship will arrive "as is" in the sell / deploy scenario, i.e. specced exactly as it is in the store with no additional engineering that the player may have applied to the copy sold - and the store ships, even those with some engineering, don't seem to be that impressive.
 
You’re right that extreme examples are not that relevant. However if we make excuses and justify these gradual but constant extensions of the limits, then we will inevitably arrive at that same extreme point that now seems so far fetched.
This is a slippery slope argument. Of course FDEV can go to the extremes if they want, they don't need excuses for that, anyway. However, at a certain point in the spectrum, chances are that people are appalled by the amount of P2W and refrain from playing/paying. I think we are currently far away from that point.
 
True, noting that Powerplay rank can confer zero rebuy on any ship in particular circumstances, and that any store purchased ship will arrive "as is" in the sell / deploy scenario, i.e. specced exactly as it is in the store with no additional engineering that the player may have applied to the copy sold - and the store ships, even those with some engineering, don't seem to be that impressive.
As I wrote: it is not that much of an advantage, but still it is one. Thus pay to win. Again: very low on the spectrum, but still within it. The same would be true for large ARX ships as well, BTW.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
As I wrote: it is not that much of an advantage, but still it is one. Thus pay to win. Again: very low on the spectrum, but still within it. The same would be true for large ARX ships as well, BTW.
It is certainly on the scale of pay-to-win, but very near the bottom, as mentioned - in which case it's a datapoint, not a justification to go further up the scale.

Previously the same could be said of Engineering, only available to those who had bought Horizons (which, by the time that it was folded down into the base game, was ultimately around half of those who had bought the base game) and conferring a significant advantage over those base game players that shared the same instances.
 
It is certainly on the scale of pay-to-win, but very near the bottom, as mentioned - in which case it's a datapoint, not a justification to go further up the scale.

Previously the same could be said of Engineering, only available to those who had bought Horizons (which, by the time that it was folded down into the base game, was ultimately around half of those who had bought the base game) and conferring a significant advantage over those base game players that shared the same instances.
Just as the base-game/Horizons advantages evolved into Horizons/Odyssey advantages, the current P2W elements are a consequential development of monetization strategies. IMHO it is a very good development and should continue. The only justification it needs is if it works or not, and it seems to work very well. And you know, who are we to demand justification from FDEV for their monetization strategy?

We will see what FDEV comes up with, I for sure root for more ships and new interesting content. Let's hope they find a way to finance this.
 
We're customers, those who ultimately decide whether their monetization strategy works or not.
This is true, and if we look at it in this holistic way, "we" have currently decided that this is just fine. I bet "we" will decide that more ships for ARX is fine, too. Besides, your personal strategy quite obviously doesn't bother them that much, just like the personal strategies of many console players. Or Apple users. Or those preferring Legacy technology.
 
This is true, and if we look at it in this holistic way, "we" have currently decided that this is just fine. I bet "we" will decide that more ships for ARX is fine, too.
Indeed, and we both have access to the game whether I choose to support Frontier or not.

Thanks for subbing me :)
 
people asked for this. heres a good one..

random forum dad : i wish frontier would listen to the playerbase and have ships for sale for real cash..

monkey paw curls..

the community asked for ships to be sold for real money . and they lisnted .. so next time ask for other things or just spam report those treads that ask for stuff for real money .because if you dont there sure is a chance of the game being more ruined. insted ask for frontier to do ship interiors.
 
people asked for this. heres a good one..

random forum dad : i wish frontier would listen to the playerbase and have ships for sale for real cash..

monkey paw curls..

the community asked for ships to be sold for real money . and they lisnted .. so next time ask for other things or just spam report those treads that ask for stuff for real money .because if you dont there sure is a chance of the game being more ruined. insted ask for frontier to do ship interiors.
Problem with that: the community (who?) asks for everything. Blind chickens and grain 🤷‍♂️
 
the community asked for ships to be sold for real money . and they lisnted .. so next time ask for other things or just spam report those treads that ask for stuff for real money .because if you dont there sure is a chance of the game being more ruined. insted ask for frontier to do ship interiors.
I fail to see how adding more ships and content ruined the game. But maybe I'm in a lone position with that here.
 
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