How to make micro-empire with colonization?

[mkizub]

Let's say our squadron wants to make an own micro-buble, micro-empire.
Here are problems that I see:

a) only one pilot can be a system architect, and he cannot give these rights to others (even if he wants to leave or pause playing ED); even if the system was colonized with a common help from his squadron.
b) if we want to colonize system S which is 20 ly from existing populated system P, we'll need to colonize an intermidiate systems I; after I was colonized, someone else can claim to occupy S, because it's now 10 ly from I.
c) if our squadron supports minor fraction, and populates our own micro-buble with this faction, then any one can claim a system withing our micro-buble and expand their factions right inside our micro-bubble; this is especially strange, because currently BGS only allows expansion range of 20ly from it's own space, and using colonization BGS fraction can jump to any distance

Here are possible solutions:
a) Let pilots claim new star systems for him personally, or for the squadron he belongs to. In first case, squadron members will know, that this system is private and will help or will not help to build it. If it's claimed to the squadron, the pilot must loose his architect rights leaving the squadron.
b) the pilot/squadron that colonized a system, must have some time (one week, for example) to claim nearby systems from this newly colonized system.
c) CC must be issued only from minor fractions that rule a habitated nearby system (withing 20/40ly range, like for current BGS expansion). If multiple pilots/squadrons claim the same star system - they must fight for it, like for current BGS expansion when you displace a minor faction in another system.

 

[aRJay]

Let's say our squadron wants to make an own micro-buble, micro-empire.
Here are problems that I see:

a) only one pilot can be a system architect, and he cannot give these rights to others (even if he wants to leave or pause playing ED); even if the system was colonized with a common help from his squadron.

True

b) if we want to colonize system S which is 20 ly from existing populated system P, we'll need to colonize an intermidiate systems I; after I was colonized, someone else can claim to occupy S, because it's now 10 ly from I.

Yes just as in bidding for I to get S you will have to get your bid in first, assuming S is of any interest to anyone else.

c) if our squadron supports minor fraction, and populates our own micro-buble with this faction, then any one can claim a system withing our micro-buble and expand their factions right inside our micro-bubble; this is especially strange, because currently BGS only allows expansion range of 20ly from it's own space, and using colonization BGS fraction can jump to any distance

Why would your squadron leave holes in your micro bubble that would allow this, also think of it, if the situation arose, as your squadron’s bubble surrounding and isolating the interloper.

Here are possible solutions:
a) Let pilots claim new star systems for him personally, or for the squadron he belongs to. In first case, squadron members will know, that this system is private and will help or will not help to build it. If it's claimed to the squadron, the pilot must loose his architect rights leaving the squadron.
b) the pilot/squadron that colonized a system, must have some time (one week, for example) to claim nearby systems from this newly colonized system.
c) CC must be issued only from minor fractions that rule a habitated nearby system (withing 20/40ly range, like for current BGS expansion). If multiple pilots/squadrons claim the same star system - they must fight for it, like for current BGS expansion when you displace a minor faction in another system.

I dislike the idea of squadrons having more advantages over individuals.

 

[mkizub]

Why would your squadron leave holes in your micro bubble that would allow this, also think of it, if the situation arose, as your squadron’s bubble surrounding and isolating the interloper.

I dislike the idea of squadrons having more advantages over individuals.

There are too many brown dwarfs or other useless star systems that make no sence to populate. But for enemy BGS minor faction - they can serve as intrusion points. Whole BGS is build around 20 ly expansion distance, and expansion using 'colonization' will break BGS strategies completely.

Squadrons should not have advantages over pilots - for the case when the system was colonized by single human effort. But if the system was colonized teamwise - one architect pilot should not have advantages over the squadron. So, squadron members must be informed in advance, that the player wants to colonize by his own effort (and have all rights on result).

 

[aRJay]

There are too many brown dwarfs or other useless star systems that make no sence to populate. But for enemy BGS minor faction - they can serve as intrusion points. Whole BGS is build around 20 ly expansion distance, and expansion using 'colonization' will break BGS strategies completely.

If you are concerned about enemy BGS factions using 'useless' systems to disrupt your bubble then it makes sense to colonise them to deny the enemy the opportunity.

Squadrons should not have advantages over pilots - for the case when the system was colonized by single human effort. But if the system was colonized teamwise - one architect pilot should not have advantages over the squadron. So, squadron members must be informed in advance, that the player wants to colonize by his own effort (and have all rights on result).

But as the architect is a single player there is no difference if the colony was assisted by an official squadron or casual players helping out or even an industrious single player.
As, so far, announced colonisation isn't a team game.

 

[Rebel Yell]

As, so far, announced colonisation isn't a team game.

...this

 

[metatheurgist]

Even the theorycrafting of this is

 

[mkizub]

Oh... just tried to make a colonization path from nearest populated systems to a system I choosed as a good canditate for colonization. 27 ly from nearest habitated system. If max colonization radius will be 10 ly - 6 intermidiate colonizations are required. Instead on 2 intermidiate points, as one may think from the pure distance. And it's in a relatively dence place at the border of human's bubble.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

But for enemy BGS minor faction

Why would another player group, capable of running colonisation of its own and therefore gaining as many new uncontested star systems as they like, start a fight they might lose over one of yours?

Why be particularly concerned about this for colonisation specifically if your group hasn't already been crushed to nothingness in the existing bubble?

 

[mkizub]

Why would another player group, capable of running colonisation of its own and therefore gaining as many new uncontested star systems as they like, start a fight they might lose over one of yours?

Why do players play BGS, fighting for systems in the bubble?
Will it give them any profit? No.
There are rates for factions - amount of systems, total population in controlled systems, etc. Players just have fun rising those minor and major powers up.
Now, imagin you've made a micro-colony with big amount of population or star systems. They are much easier can be captured, compared to systems in the bubble. The squadron of pilots that made this micro-colony invested a lot of time and resources for colonization. But invaders did not. They can jump (colonize a system) inside this micro-colony and displace original colonists.

If original trailblazers made a 'path' between the big human bubble and their micro-bubble - they can protect their work by defending this 'path' (just like greeks blocked persians in Thermopylae). This could add a new dimension to BGS - some squadrons will prefear to conquer existing systems, others may prefear to colonize and develop new systems (add new stations to increase population, for example).

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Two issues I see here.

1) FDev have only recently updated powerplay with a view to this being the competitive multiplayer aspect of the game. Creating something that will intentionally compete for those same players' attention so soon after implementing the former does not seem sensible.

2) FDev will be very aware of how many players want nothing to do with a squadron and are quite happy playing the game by themselves. I don't know how many this is, but judging by the popularity of the current CG (as well as the various hauling ones over the years and all the players who got involved with Operation Ida's repair of the bubble after thargoid attacks back in the day) I'd say that number is somewhere in the region of many. There's a market there for gameplay that isn't impacted by groups coming along and affecting what you want to do - outside the normal BGS rules.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

They are much easier can be captured, compared to systems in the bubble.

Lower population also means easier to defend, though. That only really matters if there's no opposition.

Why do players play BGS, fighting for systems in the bubble?

The question is, how much actual fighting do they do? Is anyone attacking you right now? Are you planning to attack anyone? (as in, the factions adopted by other active player groups, not the unsupported HIP 1234 Crimson Corporation)

I see lots of questions about diminishing returns curves - which only really matter if virtually no other activity is going on in the system - and relatively few about how to win contested fights. Lots of questions about how to plan an expansion so it ends up in a system a different group hasn't already claimed; very few about how to target one of their systems to start a fight.

Most people want their 10/20/100 systems with minimal effort; getting into a fight with another group who, even if "defeated" in terms of system control can keep attacking their position indefinitely in revenge isn't generally their idea of fun. So they generally only start fights they can't possibly lose, with the 0-20 daily players of passing traffic who don't really care who's in charge of the system. That won't change just because the size of the bubble doubles.

Powerplay, which is intended as an explicitly competitive system, has rapidly moved to mainly being about reinforcing your own systems rather than attacking other Powers, because it's just easier to take uncontrolled space than it is to fight over existing territories. There are a few actual fights from people who find that interesting regardless of its low effectiveness, but they're limited to low tens of systems out of ten thousand.

The practical chances of anyone coming to attack by combined BGS and colonisation means some mini-bubble you set up fifty LY off the edge of the main one is basically zero.

 

[S0rkvild]

Probably that was answered many times, yet I haven't read all discussions; will a single pilot be able to colonize a sector on his own and how much time and resources will it take, assuming it will be a very basic build?

 

[Kzak]

Probably that was answered many times, yet I haven't read all discussions; will a single pilot be able to colonize a sector on his own and how much time and resources will it take, assuming it will be a very basic build?

We haven't gotten a list of required goods/credits yet. We'll probably get that on Feb 26th, and that will give us a better idea about how long it will take for a solo pilot vs a group.

 

[varonica]

We haven't gotten a list of required goods/credits yet. We'll probably get that on Feb 26th, and that will give us a better idea about how long it will take for a solo pilot vs a group.

We'll get a preliminary idea, with Trailblazers being in Beta what we know on the 26th may actually change once FDEV gets player feedback and that may change the dynamics of colonisation.

 

[Markov Chaney]

Oh... just tried to make a colonization path from nearest populated systems to a system I choosed as a good canditate for colonization. 27 ly from nearest habitated system. If max colonization radius will be 10 ly - 6 intermidiate colonizations are required. Instead on 2 intermidiate points, as one may think from the pure distance. And it's in a relatively dence place at the border of human's bubble.

FDev have made it extremely clear that the 10ly limit is an initial value, to get everyone started and let FDev get through the beta, and it is not any final, properly designed limit.

So don't over-read that limit, it's going to change!

I expect this kind of line of thought is exactly why they made it so low, so people don't go off building a second bubble immediately it gets released.

 

[Rat Catcher]

So don't over-read that limit, it's going to change!

It may change.
Who knows, they may even double it!

 

[Felix DiCestria]

Probably that was answered many times, yet I haven't read all discussions; will a single pilot be able to colonize a sector on his own and how much time and resources will it take, assuming it will be a very basic build?

Extrapolating from what we have been told current estimation is 1 system per Cmdr, per week, consuming 1 carrier-load of commodities (~20,000 tonnes).