DEVS: Why no social features like chat channels, guilds / corps and parties?
- Thread starter Dejay
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Sorry if i just pick this one out.
I have yet to see that i have to pick a profession in this game (and i'm glad for that).
This said: On my part, there can be any chat channel someone could think of... as long as i have to "opt in" and not "opt out".
I think "galayx wide" channels would ruin the game (because of information spread faster than intended)... but if you can't live without "facebook in space"... be it.
Galaxy wide Voice Chat would be an even better idea...great! But give me the option to opt out of VC completely. It's wasting the commanders time that tries to reach me that way. Most of the time i won't even "decline"... i never wanted that option, i have no automatic way to decline, it's not my time wasted.
I think some kind of optional global (or sector?) chat would be good because it's quite possible that 50% of players will be alone in the system they are in right now (Depending on how players spread out).
Maybe just see them as custom chat channel, like joining #spacetrucking or #horseheadnebula depending on where you are and what you do. The "job" chat channels would simply be predefined channels.
Maybe just see them as custom chat channel, like joining #spacetrucking or #horseheadnebula depending on where you are and what you do. The "job" chat channels would simply be predefined channels.
like i said... whatever you like, as long as i don't have to opt out of every channel.
and about joining #xxxxxx, that's fine and exactly what i'm talking about.
i don't even have a clue about what that hashtag thing is about... and i don't know because i don't want to know.
don't get me wrong, if people want to socialize that's pretty OK.
as long as i don't have to be involved (like sitting on a train in midst of a bunch of teens talking to each other on the smartphone...)
and about joining #xxxxxx, that's fine and exactly what i'm talking about.
i don't even have a clue about what that hashtag thing is about... and i don't know because i don't want to know.
don't get me wrong, if people want to socialize that's pretty OK.
as long as i don't have to be involved (like sitting on a train in midst of a bunch of teens talking to each other on the smartphone...)
It is 12v12 arena combat in MWO while ED has a 32 player + AI limit in an instance. Functionally, an instance is no different from an arena with join in progress ability. Join in progress has been around forever. They claim it as an MMO and the definition of what an MMO is is so loose I see no reason to argue it.
Mind pointing it out? Honest question cause I've seen all this stuff before aside from the planetary orbits. Some of it hasn't been in games considered MMO's (such as joystick support) but the p2p system moves it more into the traditional SP/MP game arena. And that has a long history of joystick flight. My first online combat flight sim was IL2: Sturmovik back in 2002-ish. It supported 32 player servers and could be hosted by basically anyone with a DSL connection. It wasn't the first either, just the first I bothered playing online.
I agree it is lacking the depth they promised in the DDA's. Smuggling has been reduced to crashing the docking slot as quickly as possible, piracy has been reduced to filing bug reports and being told it's working as intended while the dev on the forum says it's a bug and to report it (no joke, see the piracy threadnaught), trading still doesn't have even the most basic ability to record prices of visited stations or view them remotely and so on.
Sadly that isn't the impression I've gotten on this forum over the last 5 months. A large portion of the community here immediately tries to shout down anything related to multiplayer.
That's my concern too. I've already paid my money so if I have to wait another 4-5 months for a working game, it doesn't really matter. The problem is if it's fixed then but all the reviews have given it a 2/10 beforehand, there will be no one here when I come back and no future expansions. In any case, the reason I assumed you were one of *those* is because of your claim ED is doing something different. I just don't see it. The only thing that's different about it is being a space flight game. Which I'll admit is rather different to a lot I suppose, but coming from DCS, RoF and BoS, this is just my usual stuff.
I'm also all too familiar with waiting 5+ years between titles of the same genre.
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Well the difference is like like I've written before is that you could theoretically put 10.000 players from the UK in one system and you can each see them as you fly around. You can see the 32 players as basically only limiting the number of players you see on your screen (like a rendering limitation). Other than that you could have millions of players in one single shared galaxy.
The fluid instancing in ED compared to MWO is technically quite a bit more tricky. If you imagine a lot of dots on a paper and you want to cluster them into groups... how do you do it? A human can do this quite well intuitively but for a computer it's not really easy. These "clustering algorithms" are not too difficult but not trivial either so nobody has done it before. Especially not for P2P.
P2P is great because it scales (theoretically) without creating strain on a central server system. So if a lot more players join on release the players themselves will host and simulate the NPCs flying around etc. The actual ED servers can stay lean and cheap.
The cheap isn't really a pro for us of course, but it enables hosting without reliable revenue stream. (Without having to pay for lots of dedicated game servers like for WoW, EvE, MWO).
So all in all the technical design of it is basically as good and clever as you could possibly make it. Well you could add a few dedicated node servers in there to help with traffic and latency. How the implementation works out in practice we'll have to see lol.
The lack of social features in the game are beginning to worry me. We are so close to release now, and I am highly concerned that we have not been testing out player formed wings, and co-ordination etc. Some people want huge clans and alliances. Great! Some people don't want that, and just want to play solo, Great!, please click solo-online, and you have your multi-single player game there.
I just want to form up in a party with a few of my friends so we can co-operatively hunt/pirate/explore/trade whatever. As for those of us who want to be in a large clan or alliance or start one. Please let us do so. I hope the devs are reading this thread because the OP has a very strong point here. At the very least give us the option to form a squad and work together. Clans and alliances don't have to happen right away, but they still should come. People really need to stop being so timid about "META"
I can't even think of a reason why having groups/group chat or a channel list of different chats would be a bad thing. If you don't like then don't use it, but for those of us who need it, let us use it. If this is an MMO, and is now being treated as such, we need the MM out of the O quite badly here.
I just want to form up in a party with a few of my friends so we can co-operatively hunt/pirate/explore/trade whatever. As for those of us who want to be in a large clan or alliance or start one. Please let us do so. I hope the devs are reading this thread because the OP has a very strong point here. At the very least give us the option to form a squad and work together. Clans and alliances don't have to happen right away, but they still should come. People really need to stop being so timid about "META"
I can't even think of a reason why having groups/group chat or a channel list of different chats would be a bad thing. If you don't like then don't use it, but for those of us who need it, let us use it. If this is an MMO, and is now being treated as such, we need the MM out of the O quite badly here.
Player want many things, but only David Braben is the Person that say what we get, because it is his Game that we want to play, not our Game. If it would be our Game we had at the End another Crap Casual MMO that want to make it everyone right...
The sad thing is - you only have to look at the SC forums to see the nonsense involved in clans.
Boasts of Clan Deathbyboredom has X number of ships of Y type and Z spare pilots to do as the clanboss says. They put up a nice poster showing them.
Boasts of Clan Boredbydeath has X+Y number of EVERYTHING and an infinite supply of spare pilots to do as the clanboss says. They put up a nice poster showing them.
Deathbyboredom get upset, rage around on the forums, and then post another poster showing everyone they now have another big lego ship and everyone should be in awe of them.
Boredbydeath laugh, and reveal they had another five huge ships that wouldn't fit onto the original poster.
MOAR RAEG!!!!
It's pathetic really.
Boasts of Clan Deathbyboredom has X number of ships of Y type and Z spare pilots to do as the clanboss says. They put up a nice poster showing them.
Boasts of Clan Boredbydeath has X+Y number of EVERYTHING and an infinite supply of spare pilots to do as the clanboss says. They put up a nice poster showing them.
Deathbyboredom get upset, rage around on the forums, and then post another poster showing everyone they now have another big lego ship and everyone should be in awe of them.
Boredbydeath laugh, and reveal they had another five huge ships that wouldn't fit onto the original poster.
MOAR RAEG!!!!
It's pathetic really.
And to you sir I say, go play your multi-singleplayer game in solo-online or in a private group, Let the players who want to actually co-ordinate, form up in a party, wing, or squad, do so, because we have systems in place that, merit the necessity for such features.
Respectfully no - you have an imagined agenda in-place that depends upon such features. You can certainly form squads using the currently implemented tools, or if you like it easy-mode then use a 3rd party tool.
I'm a Kickstarter Backer and I backed for Brabens Vision of Elite Dangerous and not what the Player want to make out of it. So if Braben build it in it is all fine, but it is only his decision.
I don't like it when Players do so as have they anything to say how the Game should be. We are Players, it is ok to say "it would be great when we could get this", but often it sounds more like "Frontier must do this!!!".
If Braben would say "ED is about small Groups only" than you have two Option: accept it or accept that you buy the wrong Game. Crying like a little Kid is no Option at all.
And I know that the most Players didn't want to hear this Fact. They think they have bought the Game, but that is wrong, you only bought the right to Play this Game.
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What? I mean seriously what? executive controlled capital ships, multi-crew gameplay with other players on your ship. Potentially launching wings of fighters from your capital ship with people in those fighters, and you're telling me there shouldn't be some kind of squad interface for these things? I don't get it. There are no implemented tools for players to work as a team. They don't show up as "green" on my radar, we don't share bounties. We can't even figure out where one another is, without using 3rd party communications like Teamspeak. How is this a good thing?
Did you even read the diaries? He talked about players working together, wings and squads, were from my knowledge supposed to be a thing, here it says it right Here Scroll down it's a long read. We can't even form a small party, there is hardly an interface for it. I know what I spent my money on and I don't need to be reminded of it, thanks. As for "Crying like a little kid" No one here arguing for squads or wings or some kind of infrastructure to support that is crying, they are providing feedback. Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean the person is crying.
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Ok read the op and first page, didn't go through the other 15pages. Here is my two cents, I could care less about guild/clans/corporations I think maybe if after we have planetary landings and such it be cool to setup an outpost and claim a planet with some chums, but game current state dont' feel its needed. However I will say I feel (and hope will be there at release since they talked about linking jump drives and such) that we will have ability to for say a 6man wing seeing as the coms are there for it, in that wing you can trade goods (which if not mistaken that is in w/ 3.9) as well as credits. You also split bounties so you could go into a conflict zone or what have you and tear it up rogue squadron style flying formations and such. Problem with this though is the fact its p2p vs server based so instances/bubbles are so limited and still baffles me that it was done this way when everything else is done through and on the servers.
I could see a station chat if understand your meaning aka you are docked at a station and are able to join a galaxy wide chat via text, that wouldn't be bad as long as it was optional meaning I have to dock and then establish the link/connect in order to join the galaxy wide chat service. I think it be kind of cool being able to swap stories of our adventures possibly share with fellow pilots some grand mining spot I found and willing to share, and by sharing wings form up and try to lay claim to it or play police and fight of pirate wings. Again this would be cool if the player to player interaction was limited to a p2p (peer to peer) connection and such low numbers of people in one instance/bubble.
Just my two cents to the argument, either way I do feel some smaller things would be nice such as formin a wing w/ a group of friends and tackling the galaxy together and being able to share in our spoils. Think it be fun as hell to fly w/ my mates who also play and fly in formation taking down the federation scum and chatting and carrying on about how i just lit some sucker up or crap i can't shake him need somone to get him off my tail and buddy comes head on flying right overhead lighting up the bogey on my six. The OP does have some valid points in touted as online mp game where players mold the galaxy and can play the game the way they want yet lack many features to really allow players to play it there way via solo or in groups (groups being the one lacking the features).
I could see a station chat if understand your meaning aka you are docked at a station and are able to join a galaxy wide chat via text, that wouldn't be bad as long as it was optional meaning I have to dock and then establish the link/connect in order to join the galaxy wide chat service. I think it be kind of cool being able to swap stories of our adventures possibly share with fellow pilots some grand mining spot I found and willing to share, and by sharing wings form up and try to lay claim to it or play police and fight of pirate wings. Again this would be cool if the player to player interaction was limited to a p2p (peer to peer) connection and such low numbers of people in one instance/bubble.
Just my two cents to the argument, either way I do feel some smaller things would be nice such as formin a wing w/ a group of friends and tackling the galaxy together and being able to share in our spoils. Think it be fun as hell to fly w/ my mates who also play and fly in formation taking down the federation scum and chatting and carrying on about how i just lit some sucker up or crap i can't shake him need somone to get him off my tail and buddy comes head on flying right overhead lighting up the bogey on my six. The OP does have some valid points in touted as online mp game where players mold the galaxy and can play the game the way they want yet lack many features to really allow players to play it there way via solo or in groups (groups being the one lacking the features).
Lets go over that, shall we?
Executive controlled capital ships may appear later. Multi-crew gameplay may appear later. Potentially launching a sidewinder from an Anaconda may appear later. Squad interfaces will probably not appear.
What executive needs to know what his plebs are doing at any given moment? That is what his minions are there to do and report back. Working as a team is incredibly simple in Elite - but as with anything else in the game, you have to learn how to do it. It's not difficult - an email or forum post or phone call or text message to someone who may agree to play with (or against) you is all it takes. Teams are made of individuals, real people, and they all most certainly do not have little radars showing their mates green and their opponents red 24 hours a day like you get in games.
Why would you share a bounty? If you get it, and want to thank some other Commander who may have assisted you - drop some cargo with some value. It's not all regarded as stolen now.
If you can't figure out where you all are without Teamspeak, then I'm at a loss for words, even though instancing and islands are still not perfect.
Ok the radar thing give you, but no coms seriously every infantry unit in the world, fighter wings, naval groups, you name it has coms typically directly b/w the unit where the squad lead would have (but the others could but wouldn't as would be against protocol) ability to talk to platoon lead, etc etc. I don't see why ED would put out grouping methods and not coms and some way to at least no you linked up properly even if its just a simple alert in the coms panel say user joined your wing. and or name(s) being listed on left of coms panel, or a new holo interface one could pull up, or that little computer screen thing sitting in b/w all the pilots legs could be used for it. Gameplay in this case wouldn't be hampered by utilizing squad mechanics such as how coms work irl and imo would help. Not saing give me some bogus radar reading, or having their ship be highlighted in blue hue (though it is future so having a hud in the window of the cockpit being able to illuminate friendlies wouldn't be that much of a stretch), or a pic or health bar under their name, but something just simply showing whos in the wing and coms able to quickly be established (if not automatic upon joinging a wing 6man voice is in or will be in already) would not hurt gameplay in fact would help it.
Any XO would need to know what his "plebs" are doing at all times, part of being an XO... Also, do you know what in IFF is? Hmm? These ships are evolved from fighters of our generation, etc.. Yet they don't have a simple IFF function? Hmm.... This is supposed to be a "future" of sorts, yet communication is archaic at best... You can't tell friend from foe even if they're in front of you with out relying on a scan or prior knowledge. Sigh.. So, in the future, we have to travel to an alternate universe or dimension to speak to each other beyond six people at a time? Using a third party program such as TS or mumble, Skype and the like is a kin to doing that if you want to look at it that way.
Hell, with my cell phone I can talk to more than six people at a time, all over the world. The future seems pretty bleak.
As for not having the ability to form wings or squads officially... That itself seems a little backwards.. We choose to fly for different governments or alliances, etc.. Yet we can not officially have a group or team? I have never seen a military or government run like that.. Seems a little... I don't know... Improbable.
I'm all for following a vision, I am also all for keeping this game from becoming another EVE... But to deny certain features and force people to rely on outside devices is, in my opinion, a bad decision.
IFF is in-game already. Pick a faction in a combat-zone, or earn enough reputation with a faction, and they go green on your scanner.
And as for someone wielding supreme executive power and knowing everything that his underlings are doing - that is ridiculous. Are you suggesting that Barak Obama, Queen Elizabeth II, Hassan Rouhani and Joachim Gauck know what all their citizens are up to?
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And yet, my friends, whom fly with me.. Do not? Hmm...
No, however, that's what military structure is for. By your own words, an XO needs to know nothing at any given time. You can argue semantics all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the MULTIPLAYER aspect is severely limited... Which is detrimental to a game touting to be an MMOG.
No, however, that's what military structure is for. By your own words, an XO needs to know nothing at any given time. You can argue semantics all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the MULTIPLAYER aspect is severely limited... Which is detrimental to a game touting to be an MMOG.
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