Elite Dangerous | System Colonisation Beta Details & Feedback

[cidiantoby]

It wouldn't be a deduction from anything, so you would never lose credits.

It would be an increase in material costs for your next initial claim.


As above, it wouldnt take anything away... it just means taking more costs more, unless you use what you have already.

Nothing in the game currently does that. The whole taking more costs more like that. Thats like saying i want 40 sidewinders. The first 10 are normal price but every 10 after that doubles the price and so on. Eventually having a sidewinder cost more than a Fed Corvette. Ohh but its a "discount".

Thats why its a surprise to everyone.

 

[Jmanis]

Look: I think they should have dropped a document outlining all the rules of this board game they've created, along with descriptions of all the building types and how all those sliders and modifiers work. And then all the theorycrafters and speculators and everyone else can get preemptively angry about it, or not. And then frontier can listen to the furor and change things preemptively, or do what they typically do and keep it all as-is for a while and see how people deal with it. That's effectively what they're doing now, anyway, just minus the communication.

As it stands, if they don't communicate matters of massive operational importance to this system they're building, then all the feedback they get, even from players with direct experience, is partially coming from a place of ignorance, which is ultimately going to make the feedback less useful anyway.

I don't think the whole "mess around and find out" ethos is very fun for anybody in this context.

And it upsets people to have the rug pulled out from under you especially when it's a huge thing you're not going to encounter until you've already made All The Wrong Choices.

If this deception was intentional on Frontier's part, it's very low of them is all I will allow myself to say.

shrug

I mean, i think there's some valid points... i just don't think accusing FD of being malicious or any other emotive words is useful to anyone during a beta test.

 

[Jmanis]

Nothing in the game currently does that. The whole taking more costs more like that. Thats like saying i want 40 sidewinders. The first 10 are normal price but every 10 after that doubles the price and so on. Thats why its a surprise to everyone.

It's literally how the bgs works right now. The more influence you have, the harder it is.

The whole motivation of this though is that there's nothing to be lost to just continually expand outposts... or more directly, there is lots to be lost to pause gobbling up systems with outposts in order to grow the systems you have.

That's pretty bad design imo.

(That is, what would you choose? Spend time building up the facilities in a system to surface a good couple markets with high population, or spend the same effort claiming 20 systems, giving you the capacity to make dozens of such systems.... it's a no brainer right now. )

 

[Kaocraft]

shrug

I mean, i think there's some valid points... i just don't think accusing FD of being malicious or any other emotive words is useful to anyone during a beta test.

Normally I'd agree but I don't think it's good practice to always assume best intentions when there's a longstanding pattern. And my definition of malice is perhaps wider than yours - to my mind intentional negligence is the same as malice because it comes from the same position of disregard towards the people affected. If you knowingly withhold important information from a group of people WHO SUPPORT AND WANT TO LIKE YOU, and you did it because . . . you didn't want to hear their complaints about it, or something? It speaks to a general disrespect for those people. Sorry. I don't see any other way to interpret that.

Now - the lack of communication could have happened for any kind of reason, and maybe there's a good explanation, but until Frontier addresses it, what it LOOKS like is . . . not a good idea to articulate further.

 

[cidiantoby]

I choose to build up ONE system with high population. Now that i chose to be the one to go that route. I'm penalized vs those that will expand multiple different systems at the 11 structure mark.

Those like me that want to hyperfocus on one large system are at a disadvantage vs those that will colonize the same number of "slots" in multiple separate systems. 1 for 1, large systems are now useless and undesirable because of the penalty.

I could have 13 systems claimed at the 11 structure mark before the "discount" takes effect or i can do the same in ONE system without being penalized with double construction costs.
^^^
This should be a no brainer as to why increasing costs for having more structures is bad. You take out the options for those that want to, or only have the time and/or attention for, build up a single system and not multiple for the same 1 for 1 "slots" cost.

 

[Jmanis]

I choose to build up ONE system with high population. Now that i chose to be the one to go that route. I'm penalized vs those that will expand multiple different systems at the 11 structure mark.

Those like me that want to hyperfocus on one large system are at a disadvantage vs those that will colonize the same number of "slots" in multiple separate systems. 1 for 1, large systems are now useless and undesirable because of the penalty.

I could have 13 systems claimed at the 11 structure mark before the "discount" takes effect or i can do the same in ONE system without being penalized with double construction costs.
^^^
This should be a no brainer as to why increasing costs for having more structures is bad. You take out the options for those that want to, or only have the time and/or attention for, build up a single system and not multiple for the same 1 for 1 "slots" cost.

I think you might have conflated something here... since i don't have a particular stance on this issue?

In fact, like my other posts i think building up needs incentivising versus continual expansion (which tbh, needs throttling)

I'm just saying, it's beta, and so feedback on these things is what that's for. But implications of malice like some suggest, or other motives just isn't useful?

Coz, well, if FD were being deliberately malicious, they're certainly not going to listen just because someone points that out... but FD's track record is really one of pulling big play systems like this together in a meaningful way... so feedback is useful and what they need... if they weren't interested in feedback, this wouldn't be a beta.

tl;dr just because i don't agree with the way the feedback is being delivered, doesn't mean i don't agree with the core feedback.

 

[Zador]

Should have known the Mechan video would blow up here. I have had 10 x construction bonus since Monday and at no point has the cost of construction of anything increased.

So it is NOT the case that this is a blanket increase, there must be either a bug or some other factor at play.

My system does not have a tier 3 port, so its possible that building one could result in increased costs, the video he posted does not show the details of the system to see what those 10 installations are, but simply reaching the 10 x bonus does not on its own have this effect despite his sensationalist claim.

 

[Tifu]

Watching the forums, it's clear that some people want to build empires but I'm not sure the current setup supports it. We don't own or command anything, I can't even direct my outpost to have a special trade route with another station nearby because it gives the best profit.

I can't choose or hire station staff, can't determine where the station's profits will be invested or even ask for extra security patrols for the last planet in the system because of increased NPC pirate attacks. BGS is starting to drive my station dynamics and I have very little control over it.

We may have to temper our expectations of establishing our own little fiefs because it doesn't look like FD intends it to be that way.

 

[Novarek]

Mechan just made a video about it the points requirements inexplicably increase as your "reward" for industriousness.

Source: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EKkVUW0fF0Y

Ah FDev and there love for Softcap....
EDIT: Oh? It's a bug? I said nothing then.
But while I'm here, does someone figured out what are actualy doing tech level, wealth, developement level and standard of living to a system?
I assume some play a role on the system market (which would be in the end partialy useless if the Coriolis / Orbis / Ocellus perma keep the "colony" economy type), but the rest?

 

[Ian Fleming]

Should have known the Mechan video would blow up here. I have had 10 x construction bonus since Monday and at no point has the cost of construction of anything increased.

So it is NOT the case that this is a blanket increase, there must be either a bug or some other factor at play.

My system does not have a tier 3 port, so its possible that building one could result in increased costs, the video he posted does not show the details of the system to see what those 10 installations are, but simply reaching the 10 x bonus does not on its own have this effect despite his sensationalist claim.

Whats your system's name?

 

[Zador]

Whats your system's name?

HIP 73012. I have 6 tier 3 construction points with which it will let me build a port. I'm having to try very hard to resist the tempation to click the Begin Construction button knowing how may hours I've already spent on this just this last week...

 

[Frankymole]

It certainly seems malicious. Think of all the thousands of systems that would have changed their build plan for the system had they known this was a wall they would hit. There is no documentation no communication in any channels that this would have happened.

Nor for the "happiness", wealth, development, standard of living, tech level, security, initial population and or max increase. We all are flying blind here against the house with all the cards.

I was aware of faction happiness, used in the BGS. How does this relate to colony "happiness"? Surely you can't have them at opposite poles?

 

[Jmanis]

penalty

I was aware of faction happiness, used in the BGS. How does this relate to colony "happiness"? Surely you can't have them at opposite poles?

I don't think anyone really knows what, if anything happiness does, or how to affect it in BGS terms... I've seen entirely happy populations in a faction with lockdown and Famine, with 1% influence... while discontented pops in boom/ civil lib controlling factions. It was meant to be "happiest faction is where expansion happens from".. but that was ditched a long time ago and seemingly replacedc with nothing observable.

I guess it's entirely possible for a colony to be overall happy when 1% in the downtrodden anarchy is despondent?

 

[cidiantoby]

I was aware of faction happiness, used in the BGS. How does this relate to colony "happiness"? Surely you can't have them at opposite poles?

I think faction happiness is going to be different than population happiness.

 

[Ian Fleming]

So do we have anyone backing up the numbers on this issue? Currently we have Zador showing its not changed for him and i just visited the system to confirm over 10 stations built. Plus on the reddit post ive seen no one else say they have the increase, just people who dont.

 

[cidiantoby]

It is possible not many have gotten to that point yet. If there are certain conditions we are unaware of that triggers it, misinformation, a bug, it was already reverted before the video upload, or he fabricated it because his initial video i say was fully negative.

Once again. More time and testing is required among all of us until FDev either confirms or denies it.

 

[Ian Fleming]

It is possible not many have gotten to that point yet. If there are certain conditions we are unaware of that triggers it, misinformation, a bug, it was already reverted before the video upload, or he fabricated it because his initial video i say was fully negative.

Once again. More time and testing is required among all of us until FDev either confirms or denies it.

Of course, im just kinda skeptical cause he didnt show up any corraborating evidence of someone else experiencing the issue before posting a video about it and going around reddit saying he thinks its intentional.

 

[cidiantoby]

Of course, im just kinda skeptical cause he didnt show up any corraborating evidence of someone else experiencing the issue before posting a video about it and going around reddit saying he thinks its intentional.

NGL. Looking at his videos. He has rarely had anything good to say. Just a lot of complaints. Its is odd how for a few frames his mouse was not where the next menu selection was highlighted too. Wonder if there was a process to force the build menu to get that to happen.

Or it was AI GENERATED.... (Im kidding)

Its my bad if I got wrapped up in the bad information and acted on it if it was all false or bugged information.

 

[Ian Fleming]

NGL. Looking at his videos. He has rarely had anything good to say. Just a lot of complaints. Its is odd how for a few frames his mouse was not where the next menu selection was highlighted too. Wonder if there was a process to force the build menu to get that to happen.

Or it was AI GENERATED.... (Im kidding)

Its my bad if got wrapped up in the bad information and acted on it if it was all false or bugged information.

Its all good, i said in an Elite discord i participate in that if this is a bug i hope its fixed fast so it doesnt affect others and if its intentional i hope they change it to back to the regular amount if not lower it. But it just bothers me to blow it up before we can even confirm if its a widespread issue or even what causes it.

 

[Tifu]

What factors determine whether a station has a shipyard & outfitting or not? Is it the station size? Station type?

Very happy with my science outpost but I'm thinking of building another space station with a shipyard in the future. I'm wondering whether I'll have to bite the bullet and build a Coriolis by myself.