The situation with Fleet Carriers being unable to jump is beyond a joke!

EDIT SEE 3 POSTS DOWN

tl;dr Will a CM please reply to this message and let the community know what is being done to address the issue of not being able to jump fleet carriers.

First I would like to say I have being playing Elite Dangerous since 2014 and I love it. I used to work in IT support so I have cut FDev a lot of slack in the past regarding issues with the game but this problem really is an own goal of the worst order.

For context I have spent over 24 hours, trying at all hours of the day and night, to jump my carrier.

Just in case anyone at FDev is unsure; a "Fleet Carrier" carries stuff from one place to another. That is the whole point of a "carrier". If I had spent over 8 billion credits on a "Glorified shelving unit" then I would have no problem that it was unable to jump its joyful way around the galaxy as shelving units, generally speaking, stay pretty much in the same place. But I did not.

Was it not blindingly obvious to FDev that when you introduce a much desired cool new feature, a very significant number of players are going to pile into it like nothing before? I don't know the exact figures but given we have been told that over 8000 new colonies have been created, I believe the term "a very significant number" is not an exaggeration.

And was it also not blindingly obvious to FDev that if you introduce a feature that requires players to shift millions of tons of cargo around the galaxy then their transport vehicle of choice was probably not going to be, for example, a Hauler?

Surely it was obvious that fleet carriers would become a core method of transporting cargo, even over short distances yet alone to the fringes of the bubble, and so the demand for carrier jump slots would increase by orders of magnitude? Especially in the light of past experience from Community Goals and so on?

The whole point of having cool features in the game, such as fleet carriers and your own star system, is to attract more players to the game. And if you are going to attract more players then you are going to need more hardware to support this.

I pretty certain the lack of jump slots is a software issue where the fleet carrier jump process has been deliberately limited to stop it overwhelming the rest of the game. But when you introduce a feature such as fleet carriers you are, presumably, intending to expand your user base. Therefore it would make an incredible amount of sense to design any process involving the new feature that you limit, to be easily extensible so that when your dreams of loads of extra users comes true, with a metaphorical flick of a switch you can easily increase the capacity of your limited areas to keep all your new users having tons of fun so they tell their mates how great it is and you get even more users etc. etc. etc.

As opposed to, for example, driving your player base insane when they cannot use one of the major features of the game!

It would be an act of great, well, stupidity, to design such a critical part of the system as a closed box because even a child would be able see that, sooner or later, it will all end in tears.

And this problem is NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT going to go away such as with a community goal. There are 400 billion stars in the ED Galaxy and the player base is not going to be content until they have built a space station in every last one of them. OK, possible exaggeration, but players continuing to expand the bubble is going to be a major feature of Elite Dangerous FOREVER! And fleet carriers are going to become an ever increasing part of that effort FOREVER!

So FDev, throw your suffering player base a bone, are you working on solving this problem or do you believe this is an "acceptable" part of the ED experience going forward?

Just asking.
 
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Them scutter hamsters again, little furry slackers.
Gotta say... I'm at my colony about 100ly out of the bubble and it jumps 15mins np. So yeah it's bubble related high traffic.
We need bigger hamsters
 
Just checked it. Oddly, jump waits are only about 30 minutes right now, and no special rituals were needed to get the jump to succeed.

Same thing last night with 12k players online. Got a jump first try. Though the wait was long, it wasn't capped.

Possibly FD have introduced additional jump queues? It might explain variable user experience, depending on which queue you're in.
 
Grrr...

Commander Biscuit - you were correct! I can immediately jump straight away to a destination 500 ly away in the middle of nowhere, but not to my target system in the bubble.

Worse yet. I can also immediately jump to the system next to my target system in the bubble.

So dear FDev, looks like you did a good job of the carrier jump system after all.

I never doubted you for a moment.

Except for the stupid error message.

There are only 7 carriers in my target system but I get the "No slots available" message which I am pretty certain I got on an earlier jump to a different system but then later on I was able to jump to my target.

As there are only 7 carriers I thought that "slots" could not possibly refer to there being too many carriers already in system, so in the light of my previous experience I "assumed" (always a bad idea) that it referred to time slots.

I still have no idea why I cannot jump to LTT 4337 as there does not appear to any reason this would be so.

So please could we have a more meaningful series of error messages such as "No time slots, try again later", "Too many carriers already in system", and maybe something like "Not allowed, we won't tell you why but have a go at trying the system next door".

Ta lots and keep up the (mostly) good work!
 
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The bigger joke is this company not even acknowledging these issues or even the rampant disconnections that have been happening all weekend. They’ll happily post about the twitch drops or skin sales though.
 
Pretty sure there was no requirement to haul insane amounts of cargo for most of ED, at least from when I started playing the 1st beta. It became necessary when repairing Thargoid damaged stations (which I did with operation IDA - great bunch of players) and at first we did it without fleet carriers, but when carriers came along it made it so much easier.

Also players did just fine without:

module choices
engineering
drones for all their uses
stations out of the bubble
landing on planets
storing more than 300 units of materials in total
getting more than a single material for each lump collected
ports on planets
walking around places
building their own stations
and especially not having to work very hard for a ton of credits

and so on.

Personally I think that FDev should make the 1st ever live version of ED permanently available so that new players, and old ones who have forgotten, can see just how limited the game was at first and just how amazing it is now.

But hey ho, just my opinion.
 
And for decades before that we managed just fine without ED at all, what’s your point?
My point is, what exactly has changed in the game that has made fleet carriers mandatory? Why is it considered a catastrophe if you can't move your carrier? People managed without them just fine for five years. What changed?

(And before anybody responds with "system colonization happened", people have been complaining about this very thing for years before trailblazers. It's not something new that only now has resulted in complaints.)
 
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My point is, what exactly has changed in the game that has made fleet carriers mandatory? Why is it considered a catastrophe if you can move your carrier? People managed without them just fine for five years. What changed?
I'm actually finding that hauling for colonisation systems is quicker if I just use my Cutter and leave the Carrier out if it. I'm only loading and dropping off once then.

At one point last night I was outpacing someone loading cargo to their carrier in orbit while I was jumping to the next system over.
 
I'm actually finding that hauling for colonisation systems is quicker if I just use my Cutter and leave the Carrier out if it. I'm only loading and dropping off once then.

At one point last night I was outpacing someone loading cargo to their carrier in orbit while I was jumping to the next system over.
I think whether using one or not to make building a colony faster depends on where the supplies and colony system are in relation to each other.

If the two systems are near each other, I can see the carrier not being useful. If you’re like me and the colony is about 250 ly away from the supply system, then I think the carrier middle man is faster.

Reminds me of an old 70’s / early 80’s Sesame Street skit comparing how fast it is to shuttle 30 kids from one location to another with car vs with a school bus. School bus won by a mile. And the school bus even gave the car a head start.
 
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rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
My point is, what exactly has changed in the game that has made fleet carriers mandatory? Why is it considered a catastrophe if you can move your carrier? People managed without them just fine for five years. What changed?
Imagine it is 2015 and you're in the starting Sidewinder. And you manage to get enough money for Anaconda! If you've been around since the beginning, you know how long it took back then.

You get your lovely Conda out into the hangar, outfit it, and finally hit that launch button to try out your new ship... and it says "Launch in 125 minutes".

And then someone comes along and says "people have been flying Sidewinders all the time, why are you angry that after spending 3 months of time and effort you can't fly your shiny new ship?"

If you still don't get it, then there is no point discussing this further with you.
 
Grrr...

Commander Biscuit - you were correct! I can immediately jump straight away to a destination 500 ly away in the middle of nowhere, but not to my target system in the bubble.

Worse yet. I can also immediately jump to the system next to my target system in the bubble.

So dear FDev, looks like you did a good job of the carrier jump system after all.

I never doubted you for a moment.

Except for the stupid error message.

There are only 7 carriers in my target system but I get the "No slots available" message which I am pretty certain I got on an earlier jump to a different system but then later on I was able to jump to my target.

As there are only 7 carriers I thought that "slots" could not possibly refer to there being too many carriers already in system, so in the light of my previous experience I "assumed" (always a bad idea) that it referred to time slots.

I still have no idea why I cannot jump to LTT 4337 as there does not appear to any reason this would be so.

So please could we have a more meaningful series of error messages such as "No time slots, try again later", "Too many carriers already in system", and maybe something like "Not allowed, we won't tell you why but have a go at trying the system next door".

Ta lots and keep up the (mostly) good work!
Try clicking on your carrier's jump button exactly at the full minute and 00 seconds. Works every time for me.
 
I'm actually finding that hauling for colonisation systems is quicker if I just use my Cutter and leave the Carrier out if it. I'm only loading and dropping off once then.

At one point last night I was outpacing someone loading cargo to their carrier in orbit while I was jumping to the next system over.
I suppose that if you need to haul the cargo a very large distance, at some point using a fleet carrier might outpace just direct transport. However, given that, when you use a fleet carrier, a) you need to essentially do the cargo transport twice (rather than just once), and b) even in an optimal situation a fleet carrier jump still takes some time, I would guess that it would require quite many Cutter/Type-9 jumps before it becomes slower than using a fleet carrier. (Since each jump takes about a minute, perhaps a tad bit less, I would estimate that maybe something along the lines of 10 jumps maybe?)
 
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Imagine it is 2015 and you're in the starting Sidewinder. And you manage to get enough money for Anaconda! If you've been around since the beginning, you know how long it took back then.

You get your lovely Conda out into the hangar, outfit it, and finally hit that launch button to try out your new ship... and it says "Launch in 125 minutes".

And then someone comes along and says "people have been flying Sidewinders all the time, why are you angry that after spending 3 months of time and effort you can't fly your shiny new ship?"

If you still don't get it, then there is no point discussing this further with you.
You are comparing apples and oranges. Fleet carriers are not ships, nor can they be used for anything that ships are used for. They have a completely different role.

Also, fleet carriers have always had a jump delay since the very beginning. Your analogy makes it sound like normally there is no delay but now there is. That's not the case.

I am still waiting for an explanation of what exactly makes fleet carriers so crucial that them taking a bit longer to jump is such a huge catastrophe. I have been playing the game for a bit over two years now, and I have never felt the need to get a fleet carrier. What would I even use one for? A mobile space port? Meh. There are already thousands of space ports. Mobility doesn't really give me anything I feel the need for. Maybe it would be a nice-to-have if you are doing some exploration for months on end without ever coming back to the bubble, but other than that... meh.

(And even for that exploration thingie, I feel like fleet carriers are just too slow. I can travel from the bubble to colonia in less than 2 hours. How long does it take for a fleet carrier to get there?)
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
You are comparing apples and oranges. Fleet carriers are not ships, nor can they be used for anything that ships are used for. They have a completely different role.

Also, fleet carriers have always had a jump delay since the very beginning. Your analogy makes it sound like normally there is no delay but now there is. That's not the case.

I am still waiting for an explanation of what exactly makes fleet carriers so crucial that them taking a bit longer to jump is such a huge catastrophe. I have been playing the game for a bit over two years now, and I have never felt the need to get a fleet carrier. What would I even use one for? A mobile space port? Meh. There are already thousands of space ports. Mobility doesn't really give me anything I feel the need for. Maybe it would be a nice-to-have if you are doing some exploration for months on end without ever coming back to the bubble, but other than that... meh.

(And even for that exploration thingie, I feel like fleet carriers are just too slow. I can travel from the bubble to colonia in less than 2 hours. How long does it take for a fleet carrier to get there?)
As I said, if you can't get your head around why it's important for people, then I don't see any point trying to explain.
 
As I said, if you can't get your head around why it's important for people, then I don't see any point trying to explain.
I have always loved the completely asinine "if you don't understand it, I will not explain it to you" attitude. It's like the epitome of illogical irrationality, and just does not make any sense.
 
Well that all got out of hand pretty quickly.

Point 1) Moving fleet carriers. The whole thing is my fault really. I worked in IT support for many years and the one thing I hammered into my teams was "Never assume anything, always test". But did I do that? Oh no! You get out of practice after a while of being retired.

I assumed all my problems were due to too many jumps being made at the same time and I couldn't get a time slot. But I never tested against other jump targets, I just threw a hissy fit and tried the same thing over and over again for 24 hours. Not exactly what you would describe as a sophisticated analysis technique.

However following Commander Biscuit's clues I actually put my brain in gear and had some success. In mitigation I have a great deal of experience jumping my carrier around out in the black but not much in the bubble.

I was trying to Jump next to Wang Port in LTT 4337. Looking at the system chart there were only 7 carriers in the system, 1 next to Wang Port and 3 next to Grabe City, an identical station at the next planet out. Therefore it is a) "obvious" there is enough room in the system for another carrier, and b) "obvious" that there is enough room for another carrier next to Wang Port. But every time I tried to target Wang Port I got the no free slots available message, so c) it is "obvious" that it is a lack of overall jump time slots that is causing the problem.

But it isn't.

After successfully jumping to the uninhabited system next to LTT 4337 and having done a few cargo runs, for a laugh I tried simply targeting LTT 4337 as a system for a carrier jump. And lo and behold - no problem. Jumped in just fine arriving next to the star. However if I try to jump next to Wang Port, Grabe City or even Harbaugh Station which has no carriers next to it, I still get the no slots available message.

But having just typed the above I had another thought that probably a whole bunch of you have been shouting at you screens. If I target the PLANET the station orbits it all works just fine.

So my underlying false assumption was: When ED offers me the opportunity to jump my carrier to a target I have selected, the fact I have been offered this opportunity means that the target is actually valid for a carrier jump.

What a fool I am. I have seen so many varieties of this issue in 25 years of tech support that I cannot believe I fell for the old trick of actually believing that what the software is telling me is true, is actually true.

So a question for FDev - WHY OH WHY OH WHY OH WHY OH WHY CAN I SELECT A STATION AS A VALID CARRIER JUMP TARGET IF SELECTING A STATION DOES NOT ACTUALLY APPEAR TO BE A VALID CARRIER JUMP TARGET???????????

Point 2) Use of carriers. As there is no right or wrong way to play ED, everyone's opinion on the use of fleet carriers expressed above is true IN THEIR OWN CONTEXT!

If you think using carriers is awesome, good for you. If you think using carriers is a complete waste of time, also good for you. BUT you do not get to tell other people that their opinions are wrong. If you do not understand why someone has an opinion that contradicts yours, ask them why they have that opinion, at the very least you will learn something new and at the best it may open up a whole new way of playing ED for you with even more fun.

I am using a carrier to haul stuff to my new station build site because it is on the very edge of the bubble and I can't be bothered with all those jumps. Yes, it may be quicker for me to use the cutter and ignore the carrier, but I will have a bunch more fun zipping between the carrier and the station/port/megaship than I would endlessly jumping back and forward.

AND HAVING THE MOST FUN IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING!

If someone wanted to use a carrier for intra-system cargo hauling I would struggle to understand the logic or where the enjoyment comes from, but hey, each to their own.

So please stop shouting at each other on my thread.

This thread is solely to demonstrate my incompetence at error analysis and my discovery that at least someone in ED did not appear to read the program specification document correctly.

Anyone who replies to this post with "Your opinion is wrong" in a sense of irony can award themselves a Kitkat.

Anyone who replies to this post with "Your opinion is wrong" because they truly believe it - oh dear oh dear oh dear.

Have fun!
 
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