But Colonization is the way to fix excessive amount of money in pilot's pockets. Just by allowing players to colonize spending 20 billions per system.
Elite Dangerous | System Colonisation Beta Details & Feedback
- Thread starter Paul_Crowther
- Start date
Why put it into a sinkhole, when you can put it in the hands of other players for what you think the effort is worth.
The game's economy has been non-existent for years. Inflation is at the level where credits are trash. Players and common sense have been asking for years to be able to spend them on something more or less meaningful. Colonization is something more or less meaningful. People don't like inflation and the fact that credits are worthless, but at the same time they are again against being able to spend them on something meaningful. I swear, some people are the reason we can't get nice things, because there will always be someone who will justify tremendous-awful game design, because "efforts". (40 hours of hauling from a to b, yeah. They call this efforts, jeez.) Reading the thread, I felt like I was in a madhouse.
I dunno. All i hear is "too much hauling, i want to pay npc's" from players who don't want to pay players for the same service.
I'd build your Orbis for 20b.
So, acknowledging that the devs want colonization that takes effort, market commodities, and that credits are worthless.
That still leaves plenty of room to add colonisation that isn't the most boring form of hauling (seriously, even mission hauling is more engaging than 50 straight visits to a refinery).
Simplest could be to recycle the mission boards, except this time rewards is commodities from flush markets within range being sent to construction sites, this way you can bypass the games 10 year in cutting edge gameplay of the plainest form of hauling, while still allowing the player to put in effort toward colonisation.
Hell if they were willing to get spicy and put in a minimum amount of effort, put missions at the construction site/colonisation ship too, except these ones encourage the player to exploit their new system, interact with it, explore it, get to love it, i didn't even know i had 2 more terraformable planets, never aproached my planets during colonisation, i was just hauling! Isn't that crazy? I was building a base for a faction that didn't even know the system they were getting!
I feel like anyone asking for NPC haulers, or the panther clipper, is asking for a bandaid over the larger issue of how goddamn boring and grindy is hauling everything, and any request to try to distribute the work falls on deaf ears, because unless you are a youtuber and have a larger audience, "i won't have to take 10 kicks to the nuts if you take 5" doesn't exactly get people lining up to help you with colonisation.
While maybe colonising farlands should be a challenge left to the "trailblazers" developing systems in already developed space could feel more like gathering seed funding round from neighbours, getting their support and investments to build up a facility trought politics and favours.
That still leaves plenty of room to add colonisation that isn't the most boring form of hauling (seriously, even mission hauling is more engaging than 50 straight visits to a refinery).
Simplest could be to recycle the mission boards, except this time rewards is commodities from flush markets within range being sent to construction sites, this way you can bypass the games 10 year in cutting edge gameplay of the plainest form of hauling, while still allowing the player to put in effort toward colonisation.
Hell if they were willing to get spicy and put in a minimum amount of effort, put missions at the construction site/colonisation ship too, except these ones encourage the player to exploit their new system, interact with it, explore it, get to love it, i didn't even know i had 2 more terraformable planets, never aproached my planets during colonisation, i was just hauling! Isn't that crazy? I was building a base for a faction that didn't even know the system they were getting!
I feel like anyone asking for NPC haulers, or the panther clipper, is asking for a bandaid over the larger issue of how goddamn boring and grindy is hauling everything, and any request to try to distribute the work falls on deaf ears, because unless you are a youtuber and have a larger audience, "i won't have to take 10 kicks to the nuts if you take 5" doesn't exactly get people lining up to help you with colonisation.
While maybe colonising farlands should be a challenge left to the "trailblazers" developing systems in already developed space could feel more like gathering seed funding round from neighbours, getting their support and investments to build up a facility trought politics and favours.
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Nothing to be fixed with insulating membranes... max you need for a single thing is just 1200t
Elite Dangerous | System Colonisation Beta Details & Feedback
Very hard to find Insulating Membranes. Even when visiting stations that carry a higher number of them (like 70 wow!), by the time you get there they are all gone. Waiting 10 minutes and trying again at the same station, gives you 2 - 12 at a time. See attached screenshot Click this: Set...
Atlternately... How many do you need? Put up a buy order on an FC for 20k/t, I'll have up to 3500t to you within... 6 hours? (I can't get on for another 4-5h, and I'm not close to the bubble atm)
But yeah... emergency power cells will be a problem.
FYI: In Austria we need to get a
Pickerl every year and you only get it if you let a certified car repair shop do it. If you don't have it you are not allowed on public roads. I think in germany it's every two years and I believe most countries in europe have something like that.
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No, no, no. Construction by other players is not an option. Firstly, there is no way to inflate the prices on the Carrier to pay 20 billion to players, secondly, not everyone has Carriers, thirdly, where is the guarantee that there will be willing players who will build your facility, and not go and build it for someone from their Squadron? There is no such guarantee. What is needed is just an "Order" of resources with delivery time and price. Just like calling a ship from one shipyard to another for money.
I'd actually like to see expansion of the "refinery contact" to include industrial/HT manufacturing, sourcing goods from in l extraction, agri, and ofc, refinery.
of course you can. Just because you don't know how doesn't mean you can't.
and yet we have enough credits to throw at npcs to do 80 hours of hauling, which you would price at 100b since you said the price should be "high".
Know the word "motivation"?
because you offer something they need.
And break the much needed demand on market goods by magicking them out of nowhere. Way to undo the update.
Let's pay npcs to disappear Titans next.
quite right, but I think he refers to drivers license - actually in Japan they do that.
You start as a bronze driver, every year theory & practical exam, for 3 consecutive years. If no accident/traffic violations, after 5 years you get promoted to silver rank, needs annual theory exam only, after another 5 years you are promoted to gold - every two years theory.
You cause an accident (above a certain damage or injuries invold)? -> back to bronze.
You get older than 70 years - even if you have gold status its back to bronze again.
They drive quite safely over there......
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Before FOCUSING the mechanics on trading between players and getting into the MMO experience, it would be nice to make sure that trading between players exists at least without the need to get into inara + three thousand discord/reddit channels and post "oh, I put 6 thousand metal up for sale for a billion, it would be nice if someone flies in and fills the hold before the heat death of the universe." In order to focus the mechanics on interaction between players, MMO and UI elements must be included, which are not even half a crutch in the elite, and this is not an opinion, not a "should", this is a REQUIREMENT so obvious that it is shameful to even try to explain such simple things.
But okay, let's pretend that "trading" on carriers works without bunch of problems. How does this solve the inflation problem? Credits will simply circulate between players, and there is nothing to spend them on anyway. That is, in terms of inflation, nothing changes again, and also on the condition that someone will trade with you at all. There is no guarantee that someone will bring you the goods in general. So what's the point?
Why not give the simplest thing in the form of ordering resources, like now with ships, with the same dependencies that require a cup of coffee for implementation and kills two problems at once: partially solves the inflation problem and gives CMDR's an alternative in the form of transforming "My favorite activity is credits - ordering resources for credits + delivery time = building in colony". No one takes away your hauling, no one takes away the ability to order goods from 50-60 24/7 haulers CMDR's for if you think it's better. That's it, simple as that. I'm not even talking about completely doing at least a partial rework of colonization, although in the current implementation it is nothing more than a disgrace, written in five minutes and does not even fit the description of the minimum finished product of ten years ago project .This is not a fundamental change. Why are people so against QoL? Why are people against real fundamental changes AT ALL and think that it is wrong to demand improvements in gameplay from a developer, to whom you pay real money one way or another, whose product you ultimately love and stay with for a decade, despite all the spitting? Why do people talk about such things, obviously not understanding how the game works at all? This is all beyond me, but I know for sure, partly because of such people the game was on the verge of death literally a year ago.
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Explanation. Let's say, 20% of players like targoid war. If there will be nothing in ED, except targoids - rest 80% of pilots will leave shortly. And 100% of forum members will tell you, that ED is about targoid war. Those 100% of players - are just 20% of all interested in space games, but they will dominate on forum, explaining that ED needs nothing but targoids. The same I see here for hauling. Some players state that colonization needs only hauling, it's the way they prefer to play it. Currently here only 20% of hauling lovers, but if the colonization mechanics will not be fixed, 100% of trailblazers will be sure that the right way of being an architector - is to be a space trucker. Rest of ED pilots will not use colonization at all, it will be a dead feature. Like we have a dead features related to blackmarket or caravan robbery, trading using fleet carriers, etc.
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I haven't tried it yet so just spit balling but.... my next system I am gonna experiment by putting a profitable buy order on my fleet carrier abd try to get the community to load it for me
then all I have to worry about is unloading it.
.
unfortunately I can't think of a way to get people to unload it for me (I mean I could put a cheap sell order in but I could not stop bad actors from just robbing me)
so 1 suggestion could be to allow the architect to subsidise deliveries at the construction dock, so I could say add 1000 credits per ton to all goods delivered on top of the modest profit given
the tier 3 stations are a significant boost over the coriolis so ideally my forever system really needs one of those (and I would love a large ground installation too one day)
if we can't have npcs to play with imo FD should at least give us the tools to use the player base ***
*** use in a symbiotic sense !
Is this at me? Because you won't find any argument from me here. You'll get plenty of opposition from the people who want to just pay NPCs and be done with it though.
Personally, I don't use discord or anything like that to conduct my business.
You now get into a huge swath of issues which I'll just say I fundamentally agree with, but the problem with forum discussion is I don't want to have to write an entire essay on the state of the game, just to respond to one trash suggestion.
It won't... but the fundamental problem in this context is players with money want to use that money to hasten the build of their stations.
Pretty sure if you threw up a reddit post or something on here in GD saying you were paying, let's go something ridiculous... 440k/t for steel to your FC, and dropped it's location, people would come.
But I'll be blunt... people shouldn't have so much money in the first place. I've been on about the state of the economy since well before Odyssey and FCs. It's an utter shambles. Of course people get a dopamine hit from "big number get bigger, faster"... FD should've reined this in years ago though.
But you don't fix a busted economy by going "Here's a big content update, but the only way to do it is if you use the busted credit spinners we've not fixed in the game". That's how you make inflation worse, because you steer everyone to those credit fountains instead... because everyone wants to get into the new content, and FD for the sake of sales want to make it accessible to everyone, not just people who consider billions pocket change.
There's nothing QOL about it for me.
There used to be a strategy for fitting ships before we had ship transfers and FCs. I hang out at location X, where I keep my ships. There's a combat CG 250Ly away that I want to participate in, but how can I get to it? My tankaconda only jumps 10Ly. I could:
- Taxi out there and build a cheap , disposable fit to do the CG and sell it after
- Build a fit that's a little less tanky, but is fit for NPC combat and still has a 20-30Ly range
- Refit the conda for travel, and source fittings locally to bring it back up to it's strength before
- I thought about this already, and staged some combat ships in strategic locations so I never need to go more than 50Ly to get a combat capable ship to the fight.
- Build a very lightweight shipwhich gets there fast, and refit in-situ using local facilities.
- Slog the 25 jumps to get there 10Ly at a time.
Now, all that's disappeared, because I can just throw money at a ship transfer or some tritium and make the problem disappear. That's a reduction in the game.
Who's going to deliver goods when they could deliver to their own facilities? Who's going to even ask for goods when anyone can make the problem disappear with credits to an NPC.
Colonisation got me back into the game because it presents big projects to sink teeth into for a while. If it's faster for me to just achieve that by stacking massacres like I used to... then Colonisation offers nothing... it's just more of the same. It works against the update at it's core.
I dunno who you're addressing all this to. I can't get any of that from anything I've been saying.
I want to play the game, not pay an NPC to do it for me. Happy to hear that "what passes as play for Colonisation isn't good"... I agree with that. Paying NPCs is not the fix to that problem.
e.g People are screaming for Insulating Membrane spawns to be buffed; they obviously don't understand how the game works at all to me. A player market starts with player demand.
I have taken a punt on a system with a tritium hot spot on a ring in the hope I can do summat with that..
for me the BGS is a mysterious box however, some bits seem logical but others seem counter intuitive (for instance the ground port where i am loading up my carrier has 10000s of various warez..............
however the massive orbis in the same system just has biowaste and hydrogen.... it is really stupid, so alas it makes me doubt anything when it comes to logic in the game.
logic dictates if i build a platform or station or even ground base on a moon around a ring system with an ice belt and tritium hot spot, then it should most certainly sell tritium.
but after seeing how some things appear to work i cant say i am holding my breath. and as echoed by others.... when logic plays such a small role in the game then having a suck it and see to figure it out is awful design when spinning the wheel to try something takes so long.
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Yes. Piracy is dead, smuggling is dead, the trade of materials between players is dead, trade with the exception of several organized groups and random missions or just a rank grinder is in a semi-dead state (until now, but not for long), explorers are climbing into a loop due to the fact that cartography has not brought anything relative to other types of activities for years, the powerplay still broken since November, the 'investigations' with rares and with the space coffins have not been fixed to this day (the config needs to be adjusted, also PP trading broken too), the BGS broke completely after the start of colonization, and the bubble map turns into garbage due to outposts for six thousand people, "one time" outposts breeding like rabbits in the spring due to the funniest radius of the claim. But hey, giving an alternative to players instead of just hauling is wrong, because "efforts". Ridiculous
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Question about Refineries & Economy:
I am a bit confused about refineries. Apparently the only refinery installation can be built on surface, as a refinery hub, and no refinery building in space.
How can my colony then can produce space refinery items, especially Insulating Membranes? Will my orbital outposts or ports produce it automatically if I build a refinery hub? Or should my space port be in the orbit of the planet/moon the refinery hub was built?
And in some systems, we can find orbit ports differ in economies; like in 1 system; there can be 1 agriculture, 1 refinery 1extraction space ports. How is the economy determined for the orbit and surface settlements? Is it dependent on the number of facilities that the planetary port orbiting the planet (or gas giant or asteroid belt) and its moons, or is it detemined randomy throughout the system?
The outposts in orbits is another question; except for extraction hub, the space outposts doesnt seem to be contributing to the facilities in the system as a prerequisite, they just increase values in a system. How can an orbital outpost affect an economy of a surface or orbital portal?
I am a bit confused about refineries. Apparently the only refinery installation can be built on surface, as a refinery hub, and no refinery building in space.
How can my colony then can produce space refinery items, especially Insulating Membranes? Will my orbital outposts or ports produce it automatically if I build a refinery hub? Or should my space port be in the orbit of the planet/moon the refinery hub was built?
And in some systems, we can find orbit ports differ in economies; like in 1 system; there can be 1 agriculture, 1 refinery 1extraction space ports. How is the economy determined for the orbit and surface settlements? Is it dependent on the number of facilities that the planetary port orbiting the planet (or gas giant or asteroid belt) and its moons, or is it detemined randomy throughout the system?
The outposts in orbits is another question; except for extraction hub, the space outposts doesnt seem to be contributing to the facilities in the system as a prerequisite, they just increase values in a system. How can an orbital outpost affect an economy of a surface or orbital portal?