"Development Level >>"? Figuring out what all these numbers do.

[Ian Doncaster]

I admit I didn't read the backlog of this thread, so hopefully this isn't redundant to another post, although I didn't see it on the summary page.

Great stuff - I've just linked your post from the initial one, rather than retype it all.

The two facilities on Planet 2 are the Decima Civilian Port and the Mantus Medium Mining Settlement.

The Civilian Port has a Colony economy and currently buys and sells nothing. However, I only completed it at the weekend, so it has not been through a Server Interval on Thursdays yet.

The mining settlement should be influencing the port towards Extraction, but that might not take until it's up and running fully.
(Your population only being 6000ish suggests that Civilian Port hasn't woken up yet - wait for that to happen)

Will that affect the economy of the Civilian Port and/or the Orbiting Industrial Outpost?

Yes.

Can the economy of an Industrial Outpost evolve?

Yes, it seems so (but you might not want it to!)

Or should I build the Refinery Hub on a different planet and build a new Starport around it, that it can influence?

This is probably better. If you build it on the same planet you'll get mixed Extraction/Refinery (or extraction/refinery/industrial) economies - which will consume their own production before it reaches the open market.

If you want strong production of exports, then "one economy per planet/moon" is - for now, hoping Frontier don't change it in a kneejerk way - the way to go.

Also, has anyone built an Agriculture Economy yet?

Yes, my system has a planetary port with a large agricultural settlement next to it. It exports (well, it doesn't right now, because of the Outbreak) a few agricultural goods.

 

[Kzak]

Great stuff - I've just linked your post from the initial one, rather than retype it all.


The mining settlement should be influencing the port towards Extraction, but that might not take until it's up and running fully.
(Your population only being 6000ish suggests that Civilian Port hasn't woken up yet - wait for that to happen)


Yes.


Yes, it seems so (but you might not want it to!)


This is probably better. If you build it on the same planet you'll get mixed Extraction/Refinery (or extraction/refinery/industrial) economies - which will consume their own production before it reaches the open market.

If you want strong production of exports, then "one economy per planet/moon" is - for now, hoping Frontier don't change it in a kneejerk way - the way to go.


Yes, my system has a planetary port with a large agricultural settlement next to it. It exports (well, it doesn't right now, because of the Outbreak) a few agricultural goods.

Another thing that we don't know yet is how much of the production e.g. a tier 2 Industrial settlement consumes of other economies. Will this settlement, for example, consume most of the production from refinery hubs that are constructed on the same planet, regardless of the number of refinery hubs, or is there an upper limit?

So far, from my own numbers, one T2 industrial settlement consumes much of the production of 3 refinery hubs. I'm just curious that if I built 2 more refinery hubs, if that could outpace the T2 industrial settlement's consumption.

 

[Xenia_K]

Yes, my system has a planetary port with a large agricultural settlement next to it. It exports (well, it doesn't right now, because of the Outbreak) a few agricultural goods.

out of curiosity - is that a T1 or T3 Port? And did it, prior to outbreak) have more than 3 commodities to sell?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Another thing that we don't know yet is how much of the production e.g. a tier 2 Industrial settlement consumes of other economies. Will this settlement, for example, consume most of the production from refinery hubs that are constructed on the same planet, regardless of the number of refinery hubs, or is there an upper limit?

So far, from my own numbers, one T2 industrial settlement consumes much of the production of 3 refinery hubs. I'm just curious that if I built 2 more refinery hubs, if that could outpace the T2 industrial settlement's consumption.

Could you give some more details of how you arrived at those numbers?

out of curiosity - is that a T1 or T3 Port? And did it, prior to outbreak) have more than 3 commodities to sell?

T1. (I doubt I'll ever have the patience to build a T3, which is unfortunate as there's an experiment I want to do which needs one)

And no, just three commodities: started out as Algae+Fruit+Grain, then switched to HFuel+Tea+Leather after I built some other stuff elsewhere, then the Outbreak blanked it completely.

 

[Xenia_K]

Could you give some more details of how you arrived at those numbers?


T1. (I doubt I'll ever have the patience to build a T3, which is unfortunate as there's an experiment I want to do which needs one)

And no, just three commodities: started out as Algae+Fruit+Grain, then switched to HFuel+Tea+Leather after I built some other stuff elsewhere, then the Outbreak blanked it completely.

and there go the hopes for autarchy of a mini-bubble - at least Ceramics and CMMs we still will have too import....

 

[hutandrei]

I admit I didn't read the backlog of this thread, so hopefully this isn't redundant to another post, although I didn't see it on the summary page.

The AXI and XSF communities have been working to build a couple of truly large systems, and in some of them they have build more than 2 "ports" that count towards the increased build points needed for future "ports". They confirmed that the price continues to increase after every additional port is built.

What was already known:

• A "port" means a tier 2 starport (Coriolis and Asteroid), a tier 3 starport (Orbis and Ocellus), or a tier 3 planetary port. All other installations do not contribute to the increased build point costs, nor are their own build point costs effected.
• The initial starport does not count as a port, at least as far as counting towards the facilities that increase the cost of additional ports.
• A port is counted as soon as construction begins. Unfinished ports still count towards the increased costs, even if no ports have completed construction.
• The first two ports in a system cost either 3 tier 2 build points, or 6 tier 3 build points.
• The third port in a system costs either 5 tier 2 build points or 12 tier 3 build points.
• The only documentation of this build point increase is in the last (third of three) help page available when you click on the guide button while claiming a new system at a colonization contact. That help page says "Tier 2 and 3 port Construction Point costs increase as more are built in a system, this increase starts after the second port has begun construction."

What AXI and XSF discovered:

• The fourth port in a system costs either 7 tier 2 build points or 18 tier 3 build points
• The fifth port in a system costs either 9 tier 2 build points or 24 tier 3 build points.

This gives enough data points to extrapolate a pattern, although I don't have any hard data beyond the cost of the fifth port.

Ports Started	Tier 2 Cost for next port	Tier 3 Cost for next port
0	3	6
1	3	6
2	5	12
3	7	18
4	9	24
5	11	30
6	13	36

So I'm in a pickle.
My system has 48 orbitals and 54 ground slots. That does not include the primary port. So 103 slots total.
To maximize the amount of T3 ports (seven), I would have to build 48 Tier 1 assets and 48 Large Settlements Tier 2 (they give double T3 points).
That would allow me to build 7 Tier Ports, because I started with one as well.
In my case though, I'm exactly on the edge. If I do this, I cannot build any Refinery Hubs.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

and there go the hopes for autarchy of a mini-bubble - at least Ceramics and CMMs we still will have too import....

I think with the right build-up it should be possible to produce everything except Emergency Power Cells locally.

Ceramics, CMM and Muon Imager might well be a case of "keep building up a system until its surface ports start producing that, then never touch it again just in case"

 

[Kzak]

Could you give some more details of how you arrived at those numbers?

See my Coriolis' market here, with the aforementioned 1 T2 industrial settlement and three refinery hubs:

Spoiler

Normally there'd be ample amounts of metals such as steel and titanium available, but this simply isn't available in my Coriolis' market. I assume the industrial settlement consumes the production before the metals make it to the market, and as mentioned, I was wondering if I could outpace the industrial settlement's consumption or if it would flat out consume everything above basic refined metals (steel and titanium foremost among critical missing metals due to their use in further construction).

 

[hutandrei]

About CMM production, there is an interesting topic here:

My colony makes CMM Composite after I placed an Industrial Settlement :: Elite Dangerous General Discussions

Not sure what the secret sauce is, but I put down the following structures (in roughly the order listed). Though extraction settlement is required for Refinery Hub, CMM Composite did not show up until I put down the Industrial Settlement. System is still tagged as Colony/Extraction, maybe that...

steamcommunity.com

 

[Xenia_K]

I think with the right build-up it should be possible to produce everything except Emergency Power Cells locally.

Ceramics, CMM and Muon Imager might well be a case of "keep building up a system until its surface ports start producing that, then never touch it again just in case"

well, haven´t found a planet with 14 surface slots yet -1xmining, 3 x refinery-hub plus 10 ports T1 to get that 30 Market slots????

 

[Xenia_K]

About CMM production, there is an interesting topic here:

My colony makes CMM Composite after I placed an Industrial Settlement :: Elite Dangerous General Discussions

Not sure what the secret sauce is, but I put down the following structures (in roughly the order listed). Though extraction settlement is required for Refinery Hub, CMM Composite did not show up until I put down the Industrial Settlement. System is still tagged as Colony/Extraction, maybe that...

steamcommunity.com

could you PM me that - in china i cannot open steam forum

 

[hutandrei]

Did you try that combo mentioned earlier (Large Extraction + Refinery + Large Industrial)? That industrial settlement could sell CMM.

Basically that's the story on that Steam forum. Oh, and before that the player had a Coriolis - Starting base, Agriculture Installation, Communication Installation, Satellite Installation. I think the system is HIP 102611.

 

[Xenia_K]

Did you try that combo mentioned earlier (Large Extraction + Refinery + Large Industrial)?

nope, not yet. First want to finish my Hightec + Industrial system (Hightec at A2, Industry at B4). with the refinery-system i´ll start Saturday/Sunday after i finished that Coriolis for the Industry-Market. For the Hightec-Market and the amount of goods needed from there the Outpost is just fine.....

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Normally there'd be ample amount of metals such as steel and titanium available, but this simply isn't available in my Coriolis' market. I assume the industrial settlement consumes the production before the metals make it to the market, and as mentioned, I was wondering if I could outpace the industrial settlement's consumption or if it would flat out consume everything above basic refined metals (steel and titanium foremost).

Ah, right, in that sense.

(Could you send the Journal "Docked" event for that station, please? That's probably needed to fully answer the question by determining the exact proportions of both market types)

In a concrete rather than RP sense, it's not the industrial settlement itself that's doing the consuming in this case - it's the industrial component of the Coriolis' own economy, as set by the settlement's influence, which is doing it.

This is going to get into the details of station specialisation

Trade specialisation

Steel seems to have production generally higher than consumption for equivalent-sized markets - but there is a wider range on the steel consumption with a very high peak, so you could have that be consumed.
(Copper is surprising that you're getting exports for - though there is scope to get lucky and have a low-consumption market for it on the industrial side)

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Did you try that combo mentioned earlier (Large Extraction + Refinery + Large Industrial)? That industrial settlement could sell CMM.

It'd be interesting to see also if the other two are actually needed. Odyssey settlements are weird and don't have a native Refinery type, so the refinery exports for the NPC ones are already split across the other economies.

So this may just be a case of
- build a Large Industrial
- get lucky and have it produce CMM
- assume that this is somehow connected to other things built on the same planet

well, haven´t found a planet with 14 surface slots yet -1xmining, 3 x refinery-hub plus 10 ports T1 to get that 30 Market slots????

Oh, interesting - I hadn't considered that it might be 3 production slots per influencing station. Is that something you've seen in practice (build the second one and you get six exports) or a theory you think worth testing?

 

[Lu-v H8-2020]

Still waiting past cycle to do the full description of my system changes doc, but I'll reiterate the last issue/questionably working as intended design (at least imo) - still hoping that cycle might fix it, in case this isn't meant to work as is.

So I've been purposefully keeping my eco as colony for reliable market changes to spot. After 10+ space installations, I decided to add a t1 Planetary port to compare market numbers with my starter Orbis. Here's the "finding": I had a strong gut feel the market was like a 0 stat broad boost from system installations. To be sure, I finished up today a commercial outpost (so a 3rd colo economy). After reading the general trend of starter ports that have been posted here when they were freshly laid down with no bonuses whatsoever, I can certify the numbers are idd NOT taking into account the current system's Dev and Wealth, as my outpost has the same baby market I've read as reference points. Uncertain for Tech for the services being unlocked or not properly as it is irrelevant for me since I haven't pushed the stat up hard yet.

The commercial outpost giving a slight up in Wealth, as usual I go check the Orbis change and ofc, verify the planetary. Orbis had the changes in pricings as expected and roll the drums, the planetary t1 port was also affected. So... here begs the wonder(s):

_Intended that fresh ports built later do not benefit from system bonuses, only taking the others that gets added after their constructions? If so, wouldn't that mean that anyone wanting to fully develop a system and optimize it would feel forced to preplace every possible port intended long term before building anything else?

_Is it a bug?

_Although doubtful due to the applied change in planetary t1 port from the commercial outpost's wealth bonus, would it fix itself once past the next cycle maintenance as it never updated market after 2 daily ticks?

After this cycle maintenance I guess I will have to send a "bug or not" ticket >_<

 

[Xenia_K]

It'd be interesting to see also if the other two are actually needed. Odyssey settlements are weird and don't have a native Refinery type, so the refinery exports for the NPC ones are already split across the other economies.

So this may just be a case of
- build a Large Industrial
- get lucky and have it produce CMM
- assume that this is somehow connected to other things built on the same planet


Oh, interesting - I hadn't considered that it might be 3 production slots per influencing station. Is that something you've seen in practice (build the second one and you get six exports) or a theory you think worth testing?

nope - other way round - build 10 T1 ports to cover 30 possible slots where CMM/Ceramic composits could be offered.....

 

[Tifu]

could you PM me that - in china i cannot open steam forum

Here it is:

 

[Ian Doncaster]

nope - other way round - build 10 T1 ports to cover 30 possible slots where CMM/Ceramic composits could be offered.....

Ah, got it.

You wouldn't necessarily need all those slots to be on the same planet, at least - you could just keep sticking down Industrial T2 Settlements on any spare moon, or Refinery Hub+T1 Planetary Outpost combinations on the slightly larger ones, until one of them got it.

Though that does raise another interesting question: if you have two planetary outposts influence by the same (or different but in the same system) settlements, do they produce the same three or different three? Another one for the experiment list, I guess...

 

[Ralph Vargr]

I'm wary of putting things down, since I mucked up my original station placements. I'll just have to make do with a less than optimal start. Good thing I'm not way out on the fringe. It's still possible for me to source things within sixty light-years.