Landable (Semi) Habitable Planets... Are A Thing?

[Starsong]

DISCLAIMER: This edge case doesn't appear to have been anticipated by Frontier, and as such isn't currently represented in the game mechanics. Therefore, this is all (for now) roleplay/immersion only.

As many of you probably thought upon the announcement of landable atmospherics, one of the major questions was - can we breathe on any of them? Unfortunately, with the highest atmospheric pressure we can land on being a mere 10% of Earth's, that seems unlikely. Even with a pure-oxygen atmosphere at the 10% threshold, breathing it would require an experienced mountain climber who was already acclimatised to the lowest pressure a human can be. Not much chance for the rest of us, then.

But. Whilst we're on the topic of mountains... if you can turn the breathable atmosphere of Earth into an unbreathable one by climbing to the top of Mount Everest, can you turn an unbreathable atmosphere into a breathable one by going down?
After a lot of surveying and calculations, it turns out the answer is... yes.
It's not uncomon for tenuous-atmospheric worlds to hold deep craters. Very deep craters. I've surveyed several that go down 8-10km below the planet's surface, with a couple even further.
But, what do the numbers say? Let's take Swoilz AC-G b3-8 2 as an example. Its major dayside crater (located at 13 46 latitude/longitude) goes down to 8.5km... which, assuming I've done the numbers right, gives it a pressure of 20.7% pure oxygen. That's about equivalent to an actual Earth-Like's oxygen content, and it's got a quite habitable regional temp of 10-15C!

All the maths, for anyone who wants to read it (or check my calculations)

Spoiler

First, we have to work out something called the scale height. This is the distance over which the pressure changes by the factor of e (2.718). According to Wikipedia, this is calculated by (Hc * T)/(m*g), where:
Hc = The Hoffman constant, or 1.381 x 10^-23. A very small number.
T = Average atmospheric temperature (in kelvins). More on this below.
m = Mass of each atmospheric molecule, so 5.314x10^-23 for oxygen.
g = Gravity in metres per second. For Swoilz's 0.48G, this is 4.7088.
Calculating the temperature is a bit complicated. The average given for Earth is 250K, but Swoilz is much colder than Earth in general (235K average temperature vs Earth's 288K) so we can assume it's lower than this. As a guesstimate, I've decided to take the difference in Earth (38K) and divide that by the difference between Earth and Swoilz's temps, then take that away from Swoilz's average surface temp. If that makes any sense. So 38 * (235/288) = 31, and 235 - 31 = 204.

So, the scale height is (1.381x10^-23 * 204)/(5.314x10^-23 * 4.7088) = 11.2588km. Finally, a useful number!

Then, we need to work out the actual pressure at 8.5Km down. Since the scale is exponential, the calculation should be Swoilz's base atmospheric pressure of 0.09727 times e^(8.5/11.2588), which equals 0.20695, or 20.695%. Probably better to round this to just 20.7% as there will be some inaccuracies in my measurements.
All stats on Swoilz's parameters come from Spansh's page on the planet.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

For reference, you can go down as far as 19.5% oxygen at 1 bar before an atmosphere is considered deficient.

Depends what else in the atmosphere though, I wouldn't fancy trace amounts of hydrogen sulphide, for example.

 

[Starsong]

For reference, you can go down as far as 19.5% oxygen at 1 bar before an atmosphere is considered deficient.

Depends what else in the atmosphere though, I wouldn't fancy trace amounts of hydrogen sulphide, for example.

Atmosphere compoisition is 99.5% oxygen, 0.4% carbon dioxide andd 0.1% sulphur dioxide. Should be fine, I think?
EDIT: Well, the SO2 would at the very least smell bad. I guess the colonists will have to invest in some atmospheric scrubbers…

 

[Greasetrap42]

But. Whilst we're on the topic of mountains... if you can turn the breathable atmosphere of Earth into an unbreathable one by climbing to the top of Mount Everest, can you turn an unbreathable atmosphere into a breathable one by going down?
After a lot of surveying and calculations, it turns out the answer is... yes.
It's not uncomon for tenuous-atmospheric worlds to hold deep craters. Very deep craters. I've surveyed several that go down 8-10km below the planet's surface, with a couple even further.

Larry Niven's Known Space (Ringworld) series includes a planet with Canyon. Most of the planet is a barren moonscape with very little atmosphere. But it has a deep canyon with breathable atmosphere that people can live in. A city evolves on the sides of the canyon cliffs. See The Ringworld Engineers, chapter 1.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Atmosphere compoisition is 99.5% oxygen, 0.4% carbon dioxide andd 0.1% sulphur dioxide. Should be fine, I think?
EDIT: Well, the SO2 would at the very least smell bad. I guess the colonists will have to invest in some atmospheric scrubbers…

One thing we do know about ED lore is that it's full of stories of groups who went through significant body modifications to live on certain planets. I wouldn't say this was impossible.

Although walking about in only shirt sleeves and a respirator outdoors still seems pretty habitable to me.

 

[Greasetrap42]

Although walking about in only shirt sleeves and a respirator outdoors still seems pretty habitable to me.

Just always carry an umbrella for when it rains.

 

[aRJay]

Atmosphere compoisition is 99.5% oxygen, 0.4% carbon dioxide andd 0.1% sulphur dioxide. Should be fine, I think?
EDIT: Well, the SO2 would at the very least smell bad. I guess the colonists will have to invest in some atmospheric scrubbers…

Is that enough CO2 to trigger the breathing reflex?

No matches or electrical discharges near anything that would burn in that much O2, which is probably pretty much anything.

 

[galahad2069]

Is that enough CO2 to trigger the breathing reflex?

The CO2 that triggers breathing is produced by your own body.

 

[varonica]

Larry Niven's Known Space (Ringworld) series includes a planet with Canyon. Most of the planet is a barren moonscape with very little atmosphere. But it has a deep canyon with breathable atmosphere that people can live in. A city evolves on the sides of the canyon cliffs. See The Ringworld Engineers, chapter 1.

There's Mt Lookitthat as well that does the opposite, a single high plateau on an otherwise barren planet. But yes an interesting observation, it's a pity the legendary deep craters are all gone, a 30km deep crater, now there's an atmosphere worth breathing I bet.

 

[IstvaanDCIV]

One thing we do know about ED lore is that it's full of stories of groups who went through significant body modifications to live on certain planets. I wouldn't say this was impossible.

Well that's interesting, because my impression has been that the Elite Dangerous setting has some rather oldschool sensibilities when it comes to the transhumanism side of things. Occasional individuals with minor cybernetics or minimal biological tweaking, in accordance with the series' origins in 1980s science fiction. Who are these groups?

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Well that's interesting, because my impression has been that the Elite Dangerous setting has some rather oldschool sensibilities when it comes to the transhumanism side of things. Occasional individuals with minor cybernetics or minimal biological tweaking, in accordance with the series' origins in 1980s science fiction. Who are these groups?

The Empire, for a start.

Children in line to be Emperor were genetically modified to be male for every Emperor prior to the current one. A tourist beacon in Achenar gives you that one.

Even the cybernetics can be pretty extreme when you consider Jaques, the barman running the Colonia system who by any measure is a cyborg.

 

[varonica]

Well that's interesting, because my impression has been that the Elite Dangerous setting has some rather oldschool sensibilities when it comes to the transhumanism side of things. Occasional individuals with minor cybernetics or minimal biological tweaking, in accordance with the series' origins in 1980s science fiction. Who are these groups?

Just ask the mad cyborg what he thinks of that! The thing is the ED setting you are discussing is the overarching position, just like our own world has a position regarding justice and social welfare, but it doesn't take much to get somewhere these things don't apply or apply in ways you don't agree with or even understand, and in a huge galaxy with many tens of thousands of inhabited planets groups with far different position are bound to exist, even if no-one outside their little community has no idea about them. There are going to be strange things out there, strange customs and different ways of doing things and people accepting of stuff we don't necessarily agree with, it's galaxy full of people!

 

[Shurimal]

One thing we do know about ED lore is that it's full of stories of groups who went through significant body modifications to live on certain planets.

Well that's interesting, because my impression has been that the Elite Dangerous setting has some rather oldschool sensibilities when it comes to the transhumanism side of things. Occasional individuals with minor cybernetics or minimal biological tweaking, in accordance with the series' origins in 1980s science fiction. Who are these groups?

And now I'm convinced that there're some weirdos somewhere who have given themselves cat ears and -tails

There's the reason for all those "Unknown Permit" regions, to keep those weirdos safe from certain other weirdos

 

[Dillon Fallon]

And now I'm convinced that there're some weirdos somewhere who have given themselves cat ears and -tails

There's the reason for all those "Unknown Permit" regions, to keep those weirdos safe from certain other weirdos

I mean, you're not telling me that in a universe that has genetic modification to the extent of repairing genetic damage, hyper capitalist societies and slavery that there's not some pretty dark stuff going on in places like the Omega nebula.

 

[Kira Goto]

Look up the Phagos Clan (if I spelled their name correctly). I believe they only appeared once during a halloween event before my time, but that’s some… uh… unpleasant stuff. Sure would not want to encounter those guys.

 

[Leadfoot]

Look up the Phagos Clan (if I spelled their name correctly). I believe they only appeared once during a halloween event before my time, but that’s some… uh… unpleasant stuff. Sure would not want to encounter those guys.

The Phagos Clan | Canonn Research Group

Note that the following information is from the Elite: Dangerous Horizon’s Beta. The information contained within is not currently available in the Live or Legacy versions of Elite: Dangerous Horizons or Odyssey. Consider anything below with a healthy dose of skepticism. It is only recorded here...

canonn.science

Yup, you did spell it correctly.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

One of the FFE journal storylines had an Imperial prince (might even have been Aisling's father, I forget) turned into an ape by experimental genetic modifications intended to treat his male pattern baldness (for which they were, admittedly, entirely successful in that regard). He got better.

FFE in general had the most "modification" involved in the lore - from the extreme genetic modification of the Empire to the Federation's major use of cybernetic rebuilds of workers and soldiers, to the "we'll just grow you a fresh body daily because the environmental damage is so severe" of Lucifer in Sirius.

ED has generally dialed back on that whole side of things a lot, so all that's really left are the occasional cyborgs (Jaques surviving from FFE as the only one modified to the extent of not merely being "human with a few prosthetics"), progenitor cells to extend lifespans a bit, and a few references left over from the earlier games as easter eggs / tourist beacons but not really followed up.

 

[Jinx Chrome]

[...}
ED has generally dialed back on that whole side of things a lot, so all that's really left are the occasional cyborgs (Jaques surviving from FFE as the only one modified to the extent of not merely being "human with a few prosthetics"), progenitor cells to extend lifespans a bit, and a few references left over from the earlier games as easter eggs / tourist beacons but not really followed up.

IMHO it was dialed back a bit too much. ED plays more than 1000 years in the future and humankind hasn't evolved / 'improved' in the area of technical and genetic modifications. A bit more advance in biotech and cybernetics would do the game very good because it could create more story.
Also humankind's ban of AI technology could be fleshed out a bit more. Without knowing the lore it is somewhat hard to understand why our ship's computers are so incredibly incapable

 

[Shurimal]

A bit more advance in biotech and cybernetics would do the game very good because it could create more story.

When it comes to biotech, there are two distinct possibilites:
-You don't even notice the tech exists. Until you realize that congenital diseases, cancer, physical disabilities etc are perfectly fixable and don't really exist (at a large scale) in the society.
-It's a sarkicist hellscape where everyone and everything is an everchanging mutated collage of whatever biomods they need at the current moment.

Of course, an in-between version is also possible where some people decide that cat ears are really neat things to have, but society at large stays visually unmodified

 

[Jinx Chrome]

When it comes to biotech, there are two distinct possibilites:
-You don't even notice the tech exists. Until you realize that congenital diseases, cancer, physical disabilities etc are perfectly fixable and don't really exist (at a large scale) in the society.
-It's a sarkicist hellscape where everyone and everything is an everchanging mutated collage of whatever biomods they need at the current moment.

Of course, an in-between version is also possible where some people decide that cat ears are really neat things to have, but society at large stays visually unmodified

A third arm for ski-boxing is probably too much but I could agree with some extreme physiques for high-g or very low-g worlds, different skin colours depending on the sun's spectrum and yes, feline ears or canine teeth. Would add a bit of variety in the station's concourse.