Another Ship interior thread, and some suggestions

[Kraenor]

After I had my carrier awhile I stopped walking through it for any reason whatsoever. This is how useless it is to walk around even in a ship that you have a reason to (I did when i was doing exploration). Adding ships that have interiors because, 'Oh Oh, wouldn't interiors be awesome' is a waste of Dev time.

Also your entire thread amounts to, 'Oh and another idea just popped into my head, I'm going to add that to my pointless wish list" and "Oh there is another idea in my head that simply must be added to the game, Oh wait there is another gem right there...."

NO

Dev time for what?
Is not pointless what I'm saying it's a broken promise from Frontier, the vision of this game is not fulfilled at all "You will be able to walk inside your ship" That's a David Braben statement.

Maybe I'm just putting too much hope in this game and I should take my time and money somewhere else, remember that at the end of all, this game is a business like every other game.

 

[Raedawn]

Dev time for what?
Is not pointless what I'm saying it's a broken promise from Frontier, the vision of this game is not fulfilled at all "You will be able to walk inside your ship" That's a David Braben statement.

Maybe I'm just putting too much hope in this game and I should take my time and money somewhere else, remember that at the end of all, this game is a business like every other game.

You can walk around in your carrier. Was that their original design vision for ED, perhaps not but there it is anyways so promise fulfilled. After decades of this game being out isn't about time you came to the realization that what you want isnt going to happen so that you should as you put it, 'take [your] time and money somewhere else...'.

And yes, walking around a ship for no reason is pointless and a waste of Dev time and resources and even if their original vision had us walking around ALL the ships, they may have realized the pointlessness of doing so and thankfully did not implement walking except; in the case of the carrier.

I'm imagining doing Exobiology with a "Cockpit Walk" both entering and exiting the ship each exobiology sample and a cold shiver runs down my spine as a terrifying vision shatters my tranquility !

 

[Tryohazard]

You can walk around in your carrier. Was their original design vision for ED, perhaps not but there it is anyways so promise fulfilled. After decades of this game being out isn't about time you came to the realization that what you want isnt going to happen so that you should as you put it, 'take [your] time and money somewhere else...'.

And yes, walking around a ship for no reason is pointless and a waste of Dev time and resources.

Stop thinking so cynically. If it's what the user base wants and what we're paying for by buying ARX, then that's what the team could possibly choose to work on. You risk asking with your rhetoric what the point of the game is at all. Whats the point? There's no point; it's just a game; we don't need this game why does it even exist? What a waste of devs time. All you do is fly a ship around. For your information, it exists because we wanted it to, and we like playing it. And we want to see it grow and we want to share our experiences with others. We want to see it become more than it is now and improve.
"Waste of Dev time" cut me a break.
Interiors could just as easily serve a gameplay purpose too. That would be optimal.

 

[sidereal6]

voiced NPCs

Any game company, including FDev, that isn’t leveraging ai to make npc voices is a dinosaur.

The station flight controller voices predate this tech. So do the Covid voices. FDev has to hire actors and record the voices in a studio. We now have the tech to create those programmatically.

At the very least, they should create 30 or 40 more options for each. Sell them in the store! What would the size of that be, in mb? Does it even matter at this point?

They should really be looking into generating the voices on the client. At least look into it.

 

[Raedawn]

Stop thinking so cynically. If it's what the user base wants and what we're paying for by buying ARX, then that's what the team could possibly choose to work on. You risk asking with your rhetoric what the point of the game is at all. Whats the point? There's no point; it's just a game; we don't need this game why does it even exist? What a waste of devs time. All you do is fly a ship around. For your information, it exists because we wanted it to, and we like playing it. And we want to see it grow and we want to share our experiences with others. We want to see it become more than it is now and improve.
"Waste of Dev time" cut me a break.
Interiors could just as easily serve a gameplay purpose too. That would be optimal.

You are confusing a cynical attitude with a realistic view of a game with very limited financial resources and how it should allocate those resources. Other game aspects have a point, building an complete solar system, sneaking around assassinating people on contract to do so, mining and hauling it back to market. Those are activities with a 'Point' to them, walking around a ship interior does nothing worth investing resources into.

What game play are you imaging in your half-baked idea of walking around in ship interiors: players hand-loading 792 tonnes of cargo into an Imperial Clipper......Holy Hell, that would send the game's playerbase anywhere but here overnight !

 

[Tryohazard]

No you're right. The game is so much better when we just sit in our seats and watch numbers move up and down. In fact, why did we stray so much from the original 1984 game? There really wasn't a need to do all this when you think about it. IDK why they bothered to make such incredible visuals that dont make the numbers go up and down. Could have just given us a spreadsheet to play with. Waste of FDev's time, really.

 

[Raedawn]

View attachment 428658
No you're right. The game is so much better when we just sit in our seats and watch numbers move up and down. In fact, why did we stray so much from the original 1984 game? There really wasn't a need to do all this when you think about it. IDK why they bothered to make such incredible visuals that dont make the numbers go up and down. Could have just given us a spreadsheet to play with. Waste of FDev's time, really.

That your half of this debate has fallen to this level is telling.

Don't worry, I recognize your White-Flag Waving surrender and applaud your realization that in ship walking is a waste of time and resources.

 

[Kraenor]

You can walk around in your carrier. Was that their original design vision for ED, perhaps not but there it is anyways so promise fulfilled. After decades of this game being out isn't about time you came to the realization that what you want isnt going to happen so that you should as you put it, 'take [your] time and money somewhere else...'.

And yes, walking around a ship for no reason is pointless and a waste of Dev time and resources and even if their original vision had us walking around ALL the ships, they may have realized the pointlessness of doing so and thankfully did not implement walking except; in the case of the carrier.

I'm imagining doing Exobiology with a "Cockpit Walk" both entering and exiting the ship each exobiology sample and a cold shiver runs down my spine as a terrifying vision shatters my tranquility !

You get bored to walk around the carrier because it is the same as getting into a station, there's no game loops around the system.
For example, do you really think that exobiology is completed and fun? It's boring AF, that was a dev time waste. Add a cave system in the planets, let us explore and get that plant from inside a cave, get only 1 sample instead of taking samples 10km spread of each other on an empty planet.

Sorry, but in that context, walking around my ship is more fun than driving on an empty planet without life, water, clouds, caves, etc.

When you create a feature it should be completed, ship interiors could open a lot of game loops that could be fun for a lot of people from the possibility to exit in space and get into a derelict ship to explore or something else.

Are there more important things to improve in the game? Yes, maybe more than ship interiors to walk around, but take that dev time and do it... fixing odyssey for example?

 

[aRJay]

You get bored to walk around the carrier because it is the same as getting into a station, there's no game loops around the system.
For example, do you really think that exobiology is completed

Hopefully not.

and fun?

Yes, at least for me.

It's boring AF,

Obviously not for you.

that was a dev time waste. Add a cave system in the planets, let us explore and get that plant from inside a cave, get only 1 sample instead of taking samples 10km spread of each other on an empty planet.

The height map technology they use doesn’t allow the generation of caves we are told, personally I have never encountered any exobiology that has a fixed minimum of more than ~1km. But then while I enjoy exobiology I am not obsessive about it and am content to skip worlds.

Sorry, but in that context, walking around my ship is more fun than driving on an empty planet without life, water, clouds, caves, etc.

Even on such planets there is more variation than walking around a ship should provide.

When you create a feature it should be completed, ship interiors could open a lot of game loops that could be fun for a lot of people from the possibility to exit in space and get into a derelict ship to explore or something else.

Could open… could be fun… are the worrying bits especially which bit if the player base might find them fun.

Are there more important things to improve in the game? Yes, maybe more than ship interiors to walk around, but take that dev time and do it... fixing odyssey for example?

 

[Inscydeus]

Yep so folks keep telling us

O7

TBF, I'm fairly certain they meant "finished" as in "not in alpha".

 

[Kraenor]

I don't care at all about system colonization and base building,i guess that for some ppl it's important.For me a walkable ship interior is important as for some people exobiology or colonization.

System colonization for me was a dev time waste, but i understand that for some ppl that feature was a game changer.

For example , core mining is awesome in comparison to exobiology, the difference between the systems polish is really notorious.

Can some part of the community understand that for some ppl like me, ship interiors are important as for you taking samples from an empty planet?

 

[Andy Gee]

You are confusing a cynical attitude with a realistic view of a game with very limited financial resources and how it should allocate those resources.

When a game reaches the point where some players are monitoring whether other players have considered the developer's financial resources when requesting new content, then something is seriously wrong. Therefore, I would like to give this unfortunate trend a nudge in the positive direction as a constructive contribution to this discussion:
I hereby demand that the ED franchise be sold to a development studio that has sufficient resources to implement user requests!

What game play are you imaging in your half-baked idea of walking around in ship interiors: players hand-loading 792 tonnes of cargo into an Imperial Clipper......Holy Hell, that would send the game's playerbase anywhere but here overnight !

Since I don't enjoy the privilege of being part of the player base like you (how does one actually become one?), I can boldly suggest the implementation of the following:
Analogous to container shipping in the ancient world of 2025: Mini-game in the cargo hold of the ship - loading logistics for cargo transport (user defined order of loading / moving around of cargo assets in cargo hold to optimize unloading speed on a trade route with multiple stops) connected to a new game loop: large trade routes, reward for fast unloading (who is the best at cargo hold Tetris?).
Visual quality: Just like today's settlement storage rooms with the cargo assets already in the game. Simple animation of the movements of items, supported/directed by a schematic representation of the cargo items and the cargo hold on a superimposed hologram image. Everything takes place in the docked state – thus in its own temporary instance without interactions with the outside world.

 

[Raedawn]

When a game reaches the point where some players are monitoring whether other players have considered the developer's financial resources when requesting new content, then something is seriously wrong. Therefore, I would like to give this unfortunate trend a nudge in the positive direction as a constructive contribution to this discussion:
I hereby demand that the ED franchise be sold to a development studio that has sufficient resources to implement user requests!


Since I don't enjoy the privilege of being part of the player base like you (how does one actually become one?), I can boldly suggest the implementation of the following:
Analogous to container shipping in the ancient world of 2025: Mini-game in the cargo hold of the ship - loading logistics for cargo transport (user defined order of loading / moving around of cargo assets in cargo hold to optimize unloading speed on a trade route with multiple stops) connected to a new game loop: large trade routes, reward for fast unloading (who is the best at cargo hold Tetris?).
Visual quality: Just like today's settlement storage rooms with the cargo assets already in the game. Simple animation of the movements of items, supported/directed by a schematic representation of the cargo items and the cargo hold on a superimposed hologram image. Everything takes place in the docked state – thus in its own temporary instance without interactions with the outside world.

Changing studios does not help as I'm guessing you are already aware. You would need to change the financing model to something like Subscriptions or mandatory microtransactions. Since the game has been marketed for so long as a neither of these two models, suddenly changing to one, the other or some other similar means might bring lawsuits against the games designers.

Now your idea of walking around in ships has become an even more expensive proposition and still doesn't save poor Exobiologits from a ridiculous number of animations of them entering and exiting their ships while doing Exobiology just so once in awhile you can see yourself enter, move around in pointlessly, and exit your ship.

 

[Andy Gee]

Now your idea of walking around in ships has become an even more expensive proposition

Oh - silly me. Have I just thoughtlessly made things worse with my naive ignorance...or is it just that you've concocted a clever straw man argument?

 

[Elyssaen]

Ship interiors are home to some of the best content in other space games, and while the feature poses challenges, I think they're surmountable and it's well worth Frontier doing.

Some thoughts:

• I think each ship interior should programmatically be in a different space than the spaceship flight. The lack of windows in ships helps, and for the cockpit window itself (when out of the seat) it should be possible to draw a viewport onto the "spaceship flight" space from the "spaceship interior" space so you can see what's happening outside.
• Internal to external space mapping doesn't have to be perfect. We can fudge the Sidewinder.
• They probably shouldn't try too hard to make things like inertia during turns or even general zero-g accurate. They already don't!
• You should be allowed to just teleport from pilot seat to exterior, and back, if you want.
• There can be a significant degree of modularity. Each ship interior would be: a) living quarters (may be same/similar between some ships), b) key reserved spaces like the cargo bay door and where a vehicle hangar goes, c) core/optional internal spaces and d) a network of corridors connecting everything. All the cores/optional internals are of course modular between different ships.
• A size X+1 module will likely need to be more than twice the size of a size X, to account for awkward ship size scaling. An Imperial Cutter isn't really that much bigger than an Eagle but it's roleplaying that it is, and it doesn't hurt to just make the big modules look bigger to fit the vibe.
• Telepresence could allow you to holographically 'return' to the cockpit instantly if you suddenly need to fly the ship.
• Customisation options for real money. There's a lot of room for revenue generation here for Frontier.

Then... gameplay! Awkwardly this is an RPG that uniquely has many fans who frame progression mechanics as power creep, when they're just core to the RPG experience. It's awkward because we can't introduce gameplay inside our ships without giving us something worth doing, and that means progression / power creep. My idea is module tuning, a skill-based manual activity that has a secondary effect of increasing module integrity (not a repair, but an overshield effect), but a main effect that's more interesting and specific to the module type.

The ideal balance would see most tuning not improve the core properly of the module, like an FSD's range, power plant's power generation or weapon's damage. Ideally it's genuinely worth tuning some modules depending on what you're doing, but not worth bothering with all unless you enjoy it. e.g. tuning an FSD might reduce cooldown times and heat generation, which would save explorers time for long trips (esp. if they're skilled and can do it fast) but non-explorers might not bother. Getting out in an EVA suit and tuning your weapons might just save on heat generation and not matter for some builds.

Other than tuning, ship boarding is a huge area of gameplay. It'd interact amazingly with existing hostage rescue missions and it'd be able to use a lot of Odyssey content. It should offer another way to do piracy, as well as a way to outright steal ships, and we could get experiences like salvage operations boarding derelict ships – classic sci-fi stuff.

 

[Kraenor]

Changing studios does not help as I'm guessing you are already aware. You would need to change the financing model to something like Subscriptions or mandatory microtransactions. Since the game has been marketed for so long as a neither of these two models, suddenly changing to one, the other or some other similar means might bring lawsuits against the games designers.

Now your idea of walking around in ships has become an even more expensive proposition and still doesn't save poor Exobiologits from a ridiculous number of animations of them entering and exiting their ships while doing Exobiology just so once in awhile you can see yourself enter, move around in pointlessly, and exit your ship.

Ah, but yes, it does... you can keep the blue teleportation circle. If you want to enter the ship as usual, just do it. On the other hand, you could enable the option to go up the ship's stairs and enter through the door.

One feature doesn't have to kill the other; both can coexist. That's also the developers' misconception or excuse: keep the teleportation.

 

[Kraenor]

Ship interiors are home to some of the best content in other space games, and while the feature poses challenges, I think they're surmountable and it's well worth Frontier doing.

Some thoughts:

• I think each ship interior should programmatically be in a different space than the spaceship flight. The lack of windows in ships helps, and for the cockpit window itself (when out of the seat) it should be possible to draw a viewport onto the "spaceship flight" space from the "spaceship interior" space so you can see what's happening outside.
• Internal to external space mapping doesn't have to be perfect. We can fudge the Sidewinder.
• They probably shouldn't try too hard to make things like inertia during turns or even general zero-g accurate. They already don't!
• You should be allowed to just teleport from pilot seat to exterior, and back, if you want.
• There can be a significant degree of modularity. Each ship interior would be: a) living quarters (may be same/similar between some ships), b) key reserved spaces like the cargo bay door and where a vehicle hangar goes, c) core/optional internal spaces and d) a network of corridors connecting everything. All the cores/optional internals are of course modular between different ships.
• A size X+1 module will likely need to be more than twice the size of a size X, to account for awkward ship size scaling. An Imperial Cutter isn't really that much bigger than an Eagle but it's roleplaying that it is, and it doesn't hurt to just make the big modules look bigger to fit the vibe.
• Telepresence could allow you to holographically 'return' to the cockpit instantly if you suddenly need to fly the ship.
• Customisation options for real money. There's a lot of room for revenue generation here for Frontier.

Then... gameplay! Awkwardly this is an RPG that uniquely has many fans who frame progression mechanics as power creep, when they're just core to the RPG experience. It's awkward because we can't introduce gameplay inside our ships without giving us something worth doing, and that means progression / power creep. My idea is module tuning, a skill-based manual activity that has a secondary effect of increasing module integrity (not a repair, but an overshield effect), but a main effect that's more interesting and specific to the module type.

The ideal balance would see most tuning not improve the core properly of the module, like an FSD's range, power plant's power generation or weapon's damage. Ideally it's genuinely worth tuning some modules depending on what you're doing, but not worth bothering with all unless you enjoy it. e.g. tuning an FSD might reduce cooldown times and heat generation, which would save explorers time for long trips (esp. if they're skilled and can do it fast) but non-explorers might not bother. Getting out in an EVA suit and tuning your weapons might just save on heat generation and not matter for some builds.

Other than tuning, ship boarding is a huge area of gameplay. It'd interact amazingly with existing hostage rescue missions and it'd be able to use a lot of Odyssey content. It should offer another way to do piracy, as well as a way to outright steal ships, and we could get experiences like salvage operations boarding derelict ships – classic sci-fi stuff.

I hope someone in Frontier read your reply.

 

[Kraenor]

Let me enter, please...

Srv cargo

 

[Raedawn]

Oh - silly me. Have I just thoughtlessly made things worse with my naive ignorance...or is it just that you've concocted a clever straw man argument?

My stating the direct effect of your idea on one aspect of Elite Dangerous is not straw man attack but a real outcome of your proposal. Maybe you should look up debate terms before you make reference to them.

 

[Raedawn]

Ah, but yes, it does... you can keep the blue teleportation circle. If you want to enter the ship as usual, just do it. On the other hand, you could enable the option to go up the ship's stairs and enter through the door.

One feature doesn't have to kill the other; both can coexist. That's also the developers' misconception or excuse: keep the teleportation.

So half implement a pointless addition to the game, just to get it into the game. Let's just face the fact that It doesn't fit into ED at all; excepting for the carrier where it makes sense beyond, '"Wow I get to walk around in a ship" but I will add here, even the carrier barely makes it pass this particular criticism.