Amen, brother!
Player Feedback On Proposed No-Engineered-Ships Limitation Of Squadron Carriers
- Thread starter CMDR Mechan
- Start date
Amen, brother!
I see where you're coming from. If the entire game is solo, then 100% agree. Open mode does change things. For example, your loaned out fully G5 engineered murder boat Python mk2s could prevent me reaching a CG station night after night...and no, me switching to solo to do it is not really an option. Again, with a CG, if there are hundreds of loaned out, maxed out, trade cutters then this could also affect my standing in the CG, more so if they are in solo doing speed hauling runs while I'm stuck in open having to avoid the loaned out murder boats
Will it happen, possibly. Could it happen, definitely. They are minor engineered ships, not fully maxed out G5...and I'm not a massive fan.
I don't think I have ever really grinded anything in ED...I just played the game. Went there, did that. Went here, picked up that. Drove in circled, scanned this weird thing. Months later I had loads of mats and some engineers unlocked. The engineer unlock isn't as bad as people make out (done it a few times)
The problem is people feel the need to focus on 1 task and grind the living daylights out of it...and then burn out. Never understood this kind of gameplay.
Un-engineered cutter is perfectly capable of helping with colonisation...more so if a FC is involved.
Again, forcing yourself to grind can cause issues. I enjoyed all the unlocks as I was exploring and taking part in different features of the game.
Likewise, having an un-engineered ship will inspire new Cmdrs to go out and unlock things that would create a much better ship.
If a player had been handed a maxed out ship there isn't as much incentive to do the unlocks themselves..."I'll just fly this loaned ship today...I'll start the unlocks next week"...6 months later..."I'll do it tmrw". We've all been there in RL with a task that we put off
If everyone had the same opinion life would be as dull as a box of nails.
In open you are competing against others on a daily basis (depending on your activities)
I've been racking my brain for a week now...I cannot think of a single game where a brand new play is given end game equipment 2 seconds after logging in. I'm sure someone will correct my statement and give me an example. If one does exist I've never heard of it, or played it.
Good discussion Cmdr. Hope to see you in the void for a o7
From my point of view with this quoted text you are bringing a very valid and reasonable topic.
Just to my humble opinion it not really related to engineering itself since that particular need is covered IRL for very long time by rentals. When moving to a new house we are not purchasing a truck, we are renting U-Haul (or whatever it is called in particular Country). When construction Team needs do dig something small they not purchasing excavator, they just renting a mini-CAT (or whatever). At the same time I can't just go and rent F1 bolide since nobody won't be giving to drive such things to random people.
Basically, my point is: most of CMDRs (probably) OK when noobs are flying pre-built engineered T-9 (already done by ARX store), but significant part will be definitely against when random noobs are flying G5 FDLs and Pmk2 murderboats without unlocking single Engineer. Solution: rentals. Next to Apex we have NPCs-operated service where we can rent a Panther Clipper 2, mining ship, possibly Explorer, but not Combat vessel. And personally I don't care if this rented PC is engineered to G20, since it is not my ship and I should not change anything (possible in such ship Outfitting is disabled at all).
Small disclaimer: I'm not going to take part in the discussion about the feature itself, simply because I know too little about it.
It's just this single comment that triggered my attention:
When another player takes my car then I still remain in full control of it. I know this isn't fully comparable, but the main feature I have to get them to give up my car is to eject them from it entirely (or limit them to using the passenger seat only). I could easily imagine that something like this could exist for E.D. as well: a kill switch. The moment you want your ship back you basically eject the pilot (thus killing him) and your ship gets transferred to the nearest starbase, ready for you to either retrieve it or have it shipped to you.
It would basically mimic the mechanic of your ship exploding and you getting killed (though this time it's the other command getting the boot).
Sorry if this has been mentioned before, I did try looking for comments but didn't find any.
It's just this single comment that triggered my attention:
It's funny that you should mention GTA because I'm also a vivid GTAO player (level 760+ with tons of cash in the bank) and R* actually has an answer for this: forcefull ejection.
When another player takes my car then I still remain in full control of it. I know this isn't fully comparable, but the main feature I have to get them to give up my car is to eject them from it entirely (or limit them to using the passenger seat only). I could easily imagine that something like this could exist for E.D. as well: a kill switch. The moment you want your ship back you basically eject the pilot (thus killing him) and your ship gets transferred to the nearest starbase, ready for you to either retrieve it or have it shipped to you.
It would basically mimic the mechanic of your ship exploding and you getting killed (though this time it's the other command getting the boot).
Sorry if this has been mentioned before, I did try looking for comments but didn't find any.
I like this. Cmdr flying along and....remotely triggered self destruct, BOOM, welcome to the rebuy screen.
That actually raises an interesting point...what if the cmdr goes boom in a hazres or at the hands of a ganker and can't pay. Does the ship owner foot the bill or is the ship lost forever?
Personally, I think they could take the approach of allowing the ARX Edition Ships to be on the Squadron Carriers, available to 'Lend' to others.
I know that I would personally be OK with allowing any Squadron Members I did have 'Borrow' my ARX Ships to try them out or whatever.
The ARX Ships come Pre-Engineered, so, they are not exactly 'Stock' Configurations.
OK, that could lead to a lot of heavy Monetisation, but, personally, I know that there are some Players who are just so desperate for some company, that they would be happy to do exactly that... Myself included [Sad_Face].
Yes, that's right, I have Depression, and I'm on the Autistic Spectrum, and if buying some extra Type-9's (or the new Panther Clipper MKII's) for a Squadron Carrier using ARX is what it would take to have a bit of company while I'm building Colonies... Well, so be it I guess. Since they are 'Borrowed' I don't have to worry so much about the idea of them being taken away, only to never see the Players again, as they would be Borrowed Ships.
I know that I would personally be OK with allowing any Squadron Members I did have 'Borrow' my ARX Ships to try them out or whatever.
The ARX Ships come Pre-Engineered, so, they are not exactly 'Stock' Configurations.
OK, that could lead to a lot of heavy Monetisation, but, personally, I know that there are some Players who are just so desperate for some company, that they would be happy to do exactly that... Myself included [Sad_Face].
Yes, that's right, I have Depression, and I'm on the Autistic Spectrum, and if buying some extra Type-9's (or the new Panther Clipper MKII's) for a Squadron Carrier using ARX is what it would take to have a bit of company while I'm building Colonies... Well, so be it I guess. Since they are 'Borrowed' I don't have to worry so much about the idea of them being taken away, only to never see the Players again, as they would be Borrowed Ships.
Personally, I think having a 'No Jumping' Function as a Toggle would be good enough.
Also, Auto-Pilot Functions, to allow Squadron Members to 'Borrow' Ships, and then, when they either go astray, or logout, the Ship comes back home automatically.
It's not like they couldn't do this, there is no functional reason why they couldn't, as all of the needed code is already there, in the game, already in use by other things.
I can see one reason to not do this - cargo. Easy solution, a 'warning, engaging auto-pilot home will eject all cargo (list), do you accept?'
Else you have auto-delivery of commodities.
No, bad idea.
Better idea though, a Timer.
Auto-Pilot will engage in 15 Minutes, if a Player is Offline for that time.
Same as Fleet Carriers.
You could make it 30 Minutes if you must, but either way, it would remove the problem altogether.
In the Event that Cargo is on the Ship, if you really had to, you could add 1 Minute per Unit of Cargo on top of the Return time, though that is overkill in my opinion.
Okay, so nothing is stopping people from loaning a ship to an alt, flying far away, loading up their cargo, switch to main, return a ship full of cargo (0 chance of piracy), log out for the night, come back the next day to a free delivery.
OK, that's just extremely complicated and cumbersome.
You might as well just forget about the entire idea of Squadron Carriers being able to 'Loan' Ships out in the first place.
Which then brings us back to, what's the difference between a Squadron Carrier and a Personal Fleet Carrier.
I get the feeling that there is going to be a lot of 'SOLO' Squadron Carriers in operation soon, including my own at some point.
I'm in the process of Building enough Star Systems to facilitate it.
Yes, that is a lot of work, I know that.
Anyway, How much Storage are these Squadron Carriers going to have anyway?
Just saying, I'm not seeing any Massive difference thus far, aside from them maybe acting as Giant Storage Silos.
How Giant though, remains to be seen.
Just looking at the number of Alternate Accounts that already exist, simply because Players want to have Multiple Fleet Carriers...
Why they didn't just allow Players to have Multiple Fleet Carriers from the Start, or just have entire Convoys, is anyone's guess.
Think the figure 50k has been mentioned by fdev
All the more reason you might want free deliver of CMMs you have to fly to get, but can autopilot back.
I dunno. I kind of want to overhaul carriers entirely, so people gotta pick a role for them, which may or may not affect price. You can add stuff onto them still, but design them for specific things,
I would admit, a more Role-Focussed Carrier, specific to System Colonisation would be nice.
I would have been happy to spend 10,000,000,000 Credits on a System Colonisation Carrier, in exchange for having 45,000 Tons of Cargo Space.
Higher Jump Costs, sure, that's fine.
Higher Maintenance Costs, sure, that's fine too.
I do think that a Carrier with something like 75,000 Tons of Cargo Space would be better, but I'd expect that to cost around 25,000,000,000 Credits.
Sure, it's cheaper technically to have various Alternate Accounts to have multiple Carriers, rather than one with a Massive Carrier, but still.
The convenience of having 75,000 Tons of Cargo Space in one go, without multiple Accounts would be worth it, as it's more convenient.
This would thus reduce the number of Alternate Accounts, sure, but exactly how many Players are spending more Money on those Accounts.
Sure, there is the cost of the Game, but that's not the Primary Revenue, the ARX is.
They are not making that much additional money from Alternate Accounts, except in a few specific cases.
Not gonna work.
So acolytePlayer grabs exploration ship from bank and goes on 2-month exploration spree. Then masterPlayer, owner of the ship, detonates him from 15343LY away.
Option 1: FDEV decides that acolytePlayer gets to keep his exploration data. This means now everybody uses masterPlayer's method for exploration since it's more efficient. ExplorationByDetonationForTheNation.
Option 2: FDEV decides that acolytePlayer should lose his exploration data like everyone else. acolytePlayer is now upset and gives a negative review on Steam.
As I was saying, the best is Option 3 where FDEV doesn't even open this can of worms.
I know how P###ed I'd be if Option 2 applied.
Even as a 'Master' Player (I will just say Ship Owner) in this scenario.
The amount of back-lash I'd get, even if I did it accidently, would be more than what could be considered as justifiable for me.
Just not worth the stress.
That's the thing though, the same could be said for Cargo too.
No matter how you look at it, someone's going to use this Feature to Troll.
Frankly, it's just not going to work no matter how you look at it.
That said, if I could just hire some Truckers for my Colonisation, things would be much easier.
Having a load of around 30 Truckers to haul Cargo, even if I'm the one Paying for the Ships, is something I could do with.
NPC's, an expansion to Hauling and Colonisation.
If, like me, you have some Credits to burn, but not Billions on Billions to throw away on 1000% Profit Margins for people Hauling for you, this might help.
I would like to hire 'Crew' to Haul for me, because, seriously, what's the point in the Multi-Crew Function if they sit around and do nothing?
1,000,000 Credits per Server Tick for each NPC Hauler, would be decent.
Not too high as to make them a 'WHALES Only' thing, but expensive enough as to ensure that there was a cost to them.
In case of Balance Concerns, Costs could be set to rise Exponentially with the number of Hired NPC's.
1 NPC = 1,000,000
2 NPC's = 2,000,000
3 NPC's = 4,000,000
4 NPC's = 8,000,000
5 NPC's = 16,000,000
6 NPC's = 32,000,000
7 NPC's = 64,000,000
8 NPC's = 128,000,000
9 NPC's = 256,000,000
10 NPC's = 512,000,000
A Cap could be used to ensure not too many NPC's could be hired as to break things, if needed.
Recommended Cap is 4 NPC's, as Haulers.
Implementation:
Carrier arrives in a System.
Player then 'Links' the Carrier to a Port in the Menu, 'Establish Trade Link' to Enable the NPC's to load specified resources.
They wouldn't be very vast, being only as efficient as 24,000 Tons taking exactly 24 Hours to load.
Yes that's slow, but it's something.
Obviously, Hiring 4 Haulers would cost more, but at least it would only take 6 hours.
Resources would need to be Pre-Purchased ahead of time .
- Players may have the option to use the ARX Ships, in their ARX Configuration Unmodified.
- Players may also choose to use the Ships they bought with Credits, with the advantages of what those Ships provide.
A Dedicated Hanger for the Hauler Service would take up some space, but not too much, around 300 to 500 Tons.
The Hauler Service could also just be an Added Feature of the Shipyard, as seriously, who gets the Shipyard?
If done like that, at least the Shipyard would actually have a Function aside from robbing you of 3,000 tons of your Cargo Space.
If you don't have other players / alts loading their ships onto your FC for gameplay reasons, there is no need to be robbed of 3k cargo space in the first place.
I agree with this with all my Elite soul. I myself enjoyed grinding for all my mats and unlocking half the engineers so far. I think if players like me want to do that gameplay and help a fellow squad mate who might hate the engineer grind, would be great for the game. I'd like it to go a step farther and allow me to open up shop on my carrier and sell engineered ships and modules. Great point of view commander o7
I myself didn't put the thing on there for this reason.
It serves literally no purpose except to rob you of 3,000 Tons of Cargo Space that you could spend on something else, like Hauling 3,000 Tons of actual Cargo.
Thus, I don't see why it even got implemented like that, unless there were additional Plans for it to have additional Functions.
Huh? This is literally wrong
The shipyard serves a purpose, albeit not one I need.
From the wiki: "Allows visitors to purchase, sell, store, and transfer ships; the owner can always store and transfer their ships regardless of whether this service is installed."