What should I build next to improve an agricultural station?

[Pville_Piper]

So, I wanted to build an agricultural station and found this system with a terrestrial water world with an active water-based chemistry and carbon-water-based life. The body is a candidate for terraforming.
I built the primary as a Coriolis. The system shows tourism/agricultural, but the stations economy is tourist but has mostly agricultural products.
and the station interior has the hydroponics.
Would the orbital spot between the Moon and the station be a weak or strong influence? Even if it's strong, would building a space farm be of any use? I am assuming the moon, which is a rock body, and the other orbital slot will be weak.
I would like to add a refinery economy as it looks like that pairs well. Should I add a mining installation to the spot between the moon and orbital instead?
To get a refinery settlement on the moon, should I add mining hubs or settlements with a refinery hub? I wish there was an undo button that let you change the building type. With such a small system any change is problematic, no way to overcome a bad decision.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Would the orbital spot between the Moon and the station be a weak or strong influence? Even if it's strong, would building a space farm be of any use? I am assuming the moon, which is a rock body, and the other orbital slot will be weak.

The slot between the moon and the station belongs to be planet, so would be a strong link. A space farm there will add extra agricultural economy to the Coriolis, which will on average make its agricultural exports more likely to overcome the tourism side of the economy eating them all first.

(Whether a single space farm can overcome the tourism economy enough is going to depend on which products you want, and how lucky you are, but it's probably worth a try if you want more agricultural exports)

I would like to add a refinery economy as it looks like that pairs well. Should I add a mining installation to the spot between the moon and orbital instead?

Refinery pairs well with agriculture in the sense that "agriculture doesn't really damage refinery exports".
Refinery, on the other hand, will damage agricultural exports.

In this case, since you've already got a large planetary tourism link eating your agricultural exports, a few weak links probably won't make it noticeably worse. Probably. And you might not need to generate weak links, either.

To get a refinery settlement on the moon, should I add mining hubs or settlements with a refinery hub? I wish there was an undo button that let you change the building type. With such a small system any change is problematic, no way to overcome a bad decision.

Since it's a rocky moon (hopefully without volcanism/geologicals?), you'll get a refinery economy by default without needing to build further strong links to it.

A T1 Surface Planetary Port of the Colony economy type (e.g. Hestia or Decima templates) will therefore get Refinery economy, without needing further builds. It'll get a weak link from the space farm if you build that, but won't generate weak links itself.

You could add a Refinery Hub in the second spot on the moon after building the surface outpost, which would give additional refinery strength - but you might well find that a T1 surface port is already producing more refined exports than you can use anyway.

Similarly you could build a T1 Colony orbital outpost (Civilian or Commercial) in orbit, or one of the larger orbital stations, and again it would get Refinery economy from the planet.

 

[Pville_Piper]

The slot between the moon and the station belongs to be planet, so would be a strong link. A space farm there will add extra agricultural economy to the Coriolis, which will on average make its agricultural exports more likely to overcome the tourism side of the economy eating them all first.

(Whether a single space farm can overcome the tourism economy enough is going to depend on which products you want, and how lucky you are, but it's probably worth a try if you want more agricultural exports)


Refinery pairs well with agriculture in the sense that "agriculture doesn't really damage refinery exports".
Refinery, on the other hand, will damage agricultural exports.

In this case, since you've already got a large planetary tourism link eating your agricultural exports, a few weak links probably won't make it noticeably worse. Probably. And you might not need to generate weak links, either.


Since it's a rocky moon (hopefully without volcanism/geologicals?), you'll get a refinery economy by default without needing to build further strong links to it.

A T1 Surface Planetary Port of the Colony economy type (e.g. Hestia or Decima templates) will therefore get Refinery economy, without needing further builds. It'll get a weak link from the space farm if you build that, but won't generate weak links itself.

You could add a Refinery Hub in the second spot on the moon after building the surface outpost, which would give additional refinery strength - but you might well find that a T1 surface port is already producing more refined exports than you can use anyway.

Similarly you could build a T1 Colony orbital outpost (Civilian or Commercial) in orbit, or one of the larger orbital stations, and again it would get Refinery economy from the planet.

Awesome, thanks! That is what I was thinking, time to roll the dice!

 

[Pville_Piper]

@Ian Doncaster So basically any installation that is commercial will just be a blank check the will take it's economy from the strong links...

 

[Ian Doncaster]

If a port has a Colony economy type listed (some T1 surface, some T1 outpost, all T2 and T3 except the Asteroid Base) then it will instead be given an economy based on the planet or moon it's positioned at.

If a port has any other sort of economy type (some T1 surface, some T1 outpost, Asteroid Base), it just gets that economy regardless of the planet type

Either way, any strong or weak links will then get added to that.

 

[AZSlow3]

One note (especially for those who only plan agri system like in OP...). In OP there is no information about tidally lock status of the planet. The lock influence agri, but not tourists.

With some luck, agri products can be there. But with less luck, there is no agri export at all (except for products not consumed by tourists).
Note that farm around locked planet is also hit by the lock and so has relatively small influence.

I had to to build 6 (!) agri weak links to convince the station export agri. And that was not "working" immediately, i have build yet another Coriolis and large agri under it in the same system and just before final delivery to finish agri I have noticed original Coriolis "works" (i have posted in other thread about that "delayed" import to export change, I still have no idea from where it comes).

For me, one refinery, so one weak link, has created export of construction materials in original "tourist/agri" station (and later in the second). I don't know its impact on agri, there was no agri export when I have finished it.

My conclusion: tidally locked teraformable water worlds are bad as agri stations (no planetary slots to support agri and its influence is lower then from tourists initially).
But I must admit, in 2 from 3 cases fruits was exported (unfortunately in systems which I have not planned as agri).

BTW farms near "non agri" stations, especially around tidally locked bodies, make no sense. At the beginning of collonization, I saw such constalations/advises. But after I have constructed such farm in "advanced" multi-economy system, the effect was strickly zero. I mean there is no related export at all.

 

[Pville_Piper]

One note (especially for those who only plan agri system like in OP...). In OP there is no information about tidally lock status of the planet. The lock influence agri, but not tourists.

With some luck, agri products can be there. But with less luck, there is no agri export at all (except for products not consumed by tourists).
Note that farm around locked planet is also hit by the lock and so has relatively small influence.

I had to to build 6 (!) agri weak links to convince the station export agri. And that was not "working" immediately, i have build yet another Coriolis and large agri under it in the same system and just before final delivery to finish agri I have noticed original Coriolis "works" (i have posted in other thread about that "delayed" import to export change, I still have no idea from where it comes).

For me, one refinery, so one weak link, has created export of construction materials in original "tourist/agri" station (and later in the second). I don't know its impact on agri, there was no agri export when I have finished it.

My conclusion: tidally locked teraformable water worlds are bad as agri stations (no planetary slots to support agri and its influence is lower then from tourists initially).
But I must admit, in 2 from 3 cases fruits was exported (unfortunately in systems which I have not planned as agri).

BTW farms near "non agri" stations, especially around tidally locked bodies, make no sense. At the beginning of collonization, I saw such constalations/advises. But after I have constructed such farm in "advanced" multi-economy system, the effect was strickly zero. I mean there is no related export at all.

Yeah, I don't know if it is tidally locked or not. But I think I'll add a ag installation in the next slot.

 

[_Flin_]

Agri suffers from a few issues.
1. There no landable planets giving agri economy. So you'll always have something else eating into agri.
2. The terraformable bonus doesn't work. (See https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/76459 ; pls upvote if you encountered the same)
3. Most planets are tidally locked.
4. Of the most encountered planets (HMC&Ice), ice give a direct malus.
5. Agei has no dedicated stations, so you need colonies.
6. Every possible bonus/oob economy always gives an economy that eats into exports. Organics gives terraformable economy. Water World gives tourist. Earth like gives Hightech, Military and Tourism. So that leaves "terraformable" as only bonus that doesn't give am additional negative economy. But that one doesnt work (see above).

So best chances to build a decent Agri economy would be a large rocky or HMC planet with 5+ slots, not tidally locked, terraformable.
This will give you extraction or refinery. Therefore probably no beer.

Or slap down something around a waterworld, ideally terraformable, and build 1-2 spacefarms in the limited slots.

 

[PilotB]

7. settlements do sell agriculture goods but their markets are just a few random items.

Colonisation is just highlighting that settlement markets could use some quality of life upgrades so that there's a way to make the markets more useful to architects and traders.

 

[Rock Hunter]

If you put a T1 Hestia/Decima on the rocky body you’ll find you receive a good number of Colonisation materials. If you then place a Silenus refinery down in the last slot you’ll find the number go up very nicely and it costs very little in terms of time and effort, especially as you can take Steel, Aluminium etc from the Hestia/Decima Outpost- I was able to place three refineries down and all around 200-500km from the Outpost which meant a very short trip skimming the orbital line.

I’m missing semi-conductors in the Outpost but have found, due to the effects of three refineries, that my Tourist/Agri Coriolis (which orbits a terraformable WW) has them in ‘decent’ numbers…17’500 as of yesterday. With one refinery I still had enough for most projects.

I’m assuming I’m missing semi-conductors due to the rocky body also being terraformable? Although the Hestia Outpost also sits right on top of a biological region (I’ve some nice purple grasses to brighten up the Outpost) which I hadn’t noticed when placing the construction site. I don’t know which economy influence has left me short of semi conductors - Agri or Terraforming?

Ferreyra Foundry - Synuefe KT-X b47-1

Refinery 500%
Agri 140%
Terraforming 100%

 

[Pville_Piper]

One note (especially for those who only plan agri system like in OP...). In OP there is no information about tidally lock status of the planet. The lock influence agri, but not tourists.

The planet isn't tidally locked, so good news there.

 

[Pville_Piper]

Refinery 500%
Agri 140%
Terraforming 100%

Where do you find that information?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Where do you find that information?

It's in the Journal. Various third-party tools can display it.

(In the original Journal, it's just a number, not a percentage. You can interpret it as a percentage, but the thing it's a percentage of has no player-meaningful definition)

I don’t know which economy influence has left me short of semi conductors - Agri or Terraforming?

Terraforming

You can get import/export for commodities by looking at the bottom of the detail box for them in the commodity market screen.

 

[Rock Hunter]

Where do you find that information?

Inara provides that information on the page for each specific installation, I assume it’s just taken from the journal’s original figures and converted into a percentage figure….as Ian suggests, take it is a ‘numbers go up, numbers go down’ thing rather than anything more concrete.

 

[Pville_Piper]

It's in the Journal. Various third-party tools can display it.

(In the original Journal, it's just a number, not a percentage. You can interpret it as a percentage, but the thing it's a percentage of has no player-meaningful definition)

Inara provides that information on the page for each specific installation, I assume it’s just taken from the journal’s original figures and converted into a percentage figure….as Ian suggests, take it is a ‘numbers go up, numbers go down’ thing rather than anything more concrete.

What I love about this game. meaningless numbers... Why not percentages of a whole number such as 100 or 1000? I'll tell you why, to keep us confused and make it hard to figure out when the make changes.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

What I love about this game. meaningless numbers... Why not percentages of a whole number such as 100 or 1000? I'll tell you why, to keep us confused and make it hard to figure out when the make changes.

Oh, the number is definitely meaningful, in terms of allowing the relative sizes of the station economy components to be compared, and to allow you to predict the effects of adding additional constructions (which have deterministic effects on those relative sizes - e.g. a weak link always adds 0.05).

Think of it a bit like "Mach 1". You could say that's "100% of the speed of sound" as a percentage, and that would be true, but not add any additional information. You could then ask "what's the speed of sound in other units?" and that has an answer, but it's an answer dependent on the substance being travelled through, the temperature and pressure that substance is at, and so on rather than "it's 20 metres per second".

So in this case, 1.0 means "100% of the production of a typical NPC station with a single-type economy and equivalent values to this station for a bunch of hidden variables". That's not a useful thing to be taking a percentage of, any more than saying you're travelling at Mach 1 tells you much about your speed in metres per second.


(As for why it's in this format? Back when it was added to the Journal about eight years ago I doubt that the idea that players might one day change what value stations had for it had even been considered. And almost all - though not all! - NPC stations have their economy proportion values add up to 1.0, so it'd be easy to mistake it for meaning "percentage of the economy at this station" if you didn't check every last weird case.)

 

[Pville_Piper]

So I just finished the space farm and now the Coriolis is saying agricultural economy... I'm not sure why it didn't from the start as it's terraformable, has life and is not tidally locked.
The commodities available for sale haven't changed, maybe Thursday?

Just started a refinery hub on the water worlds rocky moon, so we'll see what happens with the market after that. I am considering putting a T2 commercial on the planet in the second slot and a Coriolis in the only orbital slot of that moon.

 

[Pville_Piper]

@Ian Doncaster SO I completed the refinery hub on the moon, and I now have all the refinery products at the Coriolis. Do I dare add anything else to the moon? I only have on slot left but I thought I might add a Civilian installation... Other than that, I was just going to add in the relay, government and security stations. I thought I might add a Coriolis or a commercial outpost around the moon but I'm not sure if I will now.

 

[Rock Hunter]

Clearly I’m no Ian but I’ll chime in out of curiosity/confusion. I’m assuming you haven’t got CMM Composites on your Coriolis? I thought they were only available from planet side markets which the Silenus hub doesn’t have.

If that is the case a T1 civilian outpost should provide a location with a market that provides those as well as all the other expected materials. If I’m wrong and a close by Coriolis does get CMM Composites then just ignore this - I’m still building a Coriolis around the planet with my refineries and Hestia (T1 civilian outpost) so am going by my knowledge/expectations of where to find CMM prior to trailblazers.

Hopefully this will be confirmed or corrected by a visit from Ian shortly.

EDIT: Just checked Inara, the commodity page for CMM still shows as being produced only at surface facilities.

 

[Pville_Piper]

No CMM, I have that at another location along with ceramics. I have the vast majority of metals and other items I need for building. So, to celebrate, I'm starting system #4 about 9 ly away... Yup, I'm a glutton for punishment!