COMPLETED CG Imperial Campaign Targets Archon Delaine in Beta-3 Tucani (Combat)

[V'larr]

The ship versus ship combat is a joke.

I had to use all twelve SCB fighting one lousy Cobra-5(?), then he runs and runs and runs and runs and runs away and have to chase him down for a lousy 25K combat bond.

Don't bother.

You're reaching the wrong conclusion for the wrong reasons.

Combat is by far the steepest learning curve in this game, not least because balance is nearly nonexistent and the difference between a properly outfitted ship and not, is night and day and then some. And then there's guardian unlocks. And then there's Engineers, which takes everything about outfitting - and its imbalances - and jacks it up to 11.

By the sounds of it, you're using small class-size SCBs, which are nearly worthless, and likely on a ship with poorly outfitted levels of shielding which is why you're finding yourself in that situation.

To a certain extent as well, there is piloting - you can make sure to check your positioning before joining a side in a CZ (follow the friendly death ball and avoid the enemy death ball), you can ensure to use pip management properly (SYS is crucial because each pip increases damage resistance, WEP is crucial for both obvious and not-so-obvious reasons when firing weapons), and then of course there's vector matching and improving your time on target.

As some have already said in the thread there's also the aspect of CZ NPC ships generally being outfitted to be tankier than you typically find elsewhere in the game - which is where both outfitting (corrosive MC, largely speaking), and subtargeting drives/powerplants, becomes a significant factor to improving your time to kill.

If you have a ship in mind you want to use and are willing, point it out using edsy or coriolis and I can likely indicate to you where you can make improvements.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

The ship versus ship combat is a joke.

I had to use all twelve SCB fighting one lousy Cobra-5(?), then he runs and runs and runs and runs and runs away and have to chase him down for a lousy 25K combat bond.

Don't bother.

If you're interested in advice rather than ranting and venting, start with sharing your ship build. As others have said, ships in CZs are on the tougher side of human NPCs. If you keep losing your shields, either your build is significantly underpowered, or your piloting needs some revision. Some pointers have already been given, what springs to mind (forgive me if I am redundant):

• Don't jump in the middle of it right away, start with observing from the sidelines.
• Attack those who are singled out instead of jumping into a cluster of enemies.
• Don't fixate on a single enemy while ignoring that three others are attacking you.
• Always be aware of your surroundings - multiple flashing enemies on your radar are a sign to pull out and regroup.
• Tanking all the damage only works in a tough build.
• If a ship "runs and runs" their engines might have been destroyed, in which case they dash in a straight line... forever.

Share your build and access to engineers, than we can give you advice on how to improve it.

 

[aRJay]

The ship versus ship combat is a joke.

I had to use all twelve SCB fighting one lousy Cobra-5(?), then he runs and runs and runs and runs and runs away and have to chase him down for a lousy 25K combat bond.

Don't bother.

I don’t bother with SCBs and I try not to bother chasing runaways out of the CZ unless I want to have my shields recharge and things to cool down, it is much better to stay in the furball where you have plenty of targets to keep tagging to increase the number of bonds you can claim.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I don’t bother with SCBs and I try not to bother chasing runaways out of the CZ unless I want to have my shields recharge and things to cool down, it is much better to stay in the furball where you have plenty of targets to keep tagging to increase the number of bonds you can claim.

Same. I never fit SCBs (I had them when I was still flying a Corvette in my younger days ). Situational awareness is key in space CZs, and flying straight through the green blips in the furball help getting rid of any attackers you can't shake.

Unless you make a mistake or the instance bugs out, and all ships turn red .

 

[AlSki]

Given people are saying it isn't possible wanted to complete in the CZ (the implication being without engineering) so I just bought what is available at Bakewell platform.

I'm not the best and have gotten far too used to my fully engineered ships, but ....

• Can I complete a Low CZ in an unengineered A-rated Sidewinder (Class 1 turret burst laser, Class 1 fixed missile rack) ?
  • Nope. Out of missiles before first ship destroyed. Gave up.
• Can I complete a Low CZ in an unengineered A-rated eagle with 2x fixed Burst lasers and 1 fixed railgun?
  • Nope. I'm rubbish with fixed, went boom as I tried to flee (not enough speed!!)
• Can I complete a Low CZ in a unengineered A-rated Cobra with 4 burst lasers... (what I wouldn't give for multis) ?
  • No...
  • 
  • ... but it was really really close
  • 
    
    
  • The biggest issue was the Distributor wouldnt' run all the Bursts at once (Always check before flying off, D'oh!), so halfway through I split the firegroups which really helped, which leads to...
• Can I complete a Low CZ in a unengineered A-rated Cobra with 4 Pulse lasers...?
  • I'll let you know
  • 

 

[AlSki]

Can I complete a Low CZ in a unengineered A-rated Cobra with 4 Pulse lasers...?

• No... but I found Multicannons on The Mictlan

 

[AlSki]

That was horrible!

 

[KnezBP]

Only three and a half pixels away from Tier 6.

Are you doing your part?

 

[Rhialto]

Given people are saying it isn't possible wanted to complete in the CZ (the implication being without engineering) so I just bought what is available at Bakewell platform.

I'm not the best and have gotten far too used to my fully engineered ships, but ....

• Can I complete a Low CZ in an unengineered A-rated Sidewinder (Class 1 turret burst laser, Class 1 fixed missile rack) ?
  • Nope. Out of missiles before first ship destroyed. Gave up.
• Can I complete a Low CZ in an unengineered A-rated eagle with 2x fixed Burst lasers and 1 fixed railgun?
  • Nope. I'm rubbish with fixed, went boom as I tried to flee (not enough speed!!)
• Can I complete a Low CZ in a unengineered A-rated Cobra with 4 burst lasers... (what I wouldn't give for multis) ?
  • No...
  • View attachment 432838
  • ... but it was really really close
  • View attachment 432839
    
  • The biggest issue was the Distributor wouldnt' run all the Bursts at once (Always check before flying off, D'oh!), so halfway through I split the firegroups which really helped, which leads to...
• Can I complete a Low CZ in a unengineered A-rated Cobra with 4 Pulse lasers...?
  • I'll let you know
  • View attachment 432840

You are bold.
I am using my trusty Python Mk2: Lilith
Two thermal vent beams an four Pacifiers work very well, although landing a good hit on the small ships can be challenging.

 

[Forum Error]

The ship versus ship combat is a joke.

I had to use all twelve SCB fighting one lousy Cobra-5(?), then he runs and runs and runs and runs and runs away and have to chase him down for a lousy 25K combat bond.

Don't bother.

Thanks for all your replies.

I don't have this problem in any other low CZ.

"Corvette with Beam Lasers (turretted)" has fixed this problem. Got 750K Combat Bonds and won the battle (for the first time).

Previously tried (everything A-rated):
Fer-de-Lance - 4A Pulse Laser (gimballed) | 2F Multi-cannons (gimballed) x4
Imperial Clipper - 3A Seeker Missiles x2 | 2F Pulse Lasers (gimballed) x2
Alliance Challenger - 3D Pulse Laser | 2B Pack-Hound Missiles x3
Alliance Challenger - 3? Beam Laser | 2I Torpedoes x3 | 1I Torpedoes x2
Python Mk II - 3C Pulse Lasers (gimballed) x3 | 3E Pulse Laser (gimballed) | 2F Pulse Lasers (gimballed) x2
Mamba - 4A Pulse Laser (gimballed) | 3C Multi-cannon (gimballed) x2

These have all worked fine in previous low CZs. I'm suspecting that CZ in Beta-3 Tuscai isn't "low".

~Folly

 

[CMDR X]

The ship versus ship combat is a joke.

I had to use all twelve SCB fighting one lousy Cobra-5(?), then he runs and runs and runs and runs and runs away and have to chase him down for a lousy 25K combat bond.

Don't bother.

I don't know, my full beam Corvette (no SCBs) won the battle in High CZ with 2.5 million in the bank. Someting aint right on your end.

 

[dcsignal]

I don't know, my full beam Corvette (no SCBs) won the battle in High CZ with 2.5 million in the bank. Someting aint right on your end.

A Full Beam Corvette sounds like a fun build to try.

 

[V'larr]

Thanks for all your replies.

I don't have this problem in any other low CZ.

"Corvette with Beam Lasers (turretted)" has fixed this problem. Got 750K Combat Bonds and won the battle (for the first time).

Previously tried (everything A-rated):
Fer-de-Lance - 4A Pulse Laser (gimballed) | 2F Multi-cannons (gimballed) x4
Imperial Clipper - 3A Seeker Missiles x2 | 2F Pulse Lasers (gimballed) x2
Alliance Challenger - 3D Pulse Laser | 2B Pack-Hound Missiles x3
Alliance Challenger - 3? Beam Laser | 2I Torpedoes x3 | 1I Torpedoes x2
Python Mk II - 3C Pulse Lasers (gimballed) x3 | 3E Pulse Laser (gimballed) | 2F Pulse Lasers (gimballed) x2
Mamba - 4A Pulse Laser (gimballed) | 3C Multi-cannon (gimballed) x2

These have all worked fine in previous low CZs. I'm suspecting that CZ in Beta-3 Tuscai isn't "low".

~Folly

Merely "A-rating" ships isn't enough to outfit properly, that's just the baseline.

All of these hardpoint arrangements are bad for a variety of reasons - too much distro draw going all lasers (you really need Engineering to pull that off with efficient hardpoints & charge enhanced + super conduits distributor, and even then you need to mind a given ship's power distributor size relative to your hardpoint output), overreliance on turrets which are bad for damage output & controlling distro drain, low ammo duration (especially a problem for missiles), there's no reason you would ever want to take torpedos into any combat lasting more than a single target...the most reasonable one is probably the Mamba, out of that bunch.

Here's some example builds so you can do some comparisons and draw conclusions for yourself.

Vanilla+ guardian unlocks Anaconda

EDSY

EDSY is a ship outfitting tool for Elite Dangerous

edsy.org

fully engineered Anaconda

EDSY

EDSY is a ship outfitting tool for Elite Dangerous

edsy.org

Vanilla+ Krait II

EDSY

EDSY is a ship outfitting tool for Elite Dangerous

edsy.org

fully engineered Krait II

EDSY

EDSY is a ship outfitting tool for Elite Dangerous

edsy.org

engineered frag Python II (PvE oriented, as opposed to PvP)

EDSY

EDSY is a ship outfitting tool for Elite Dangerous

edsy.org

engineered Chieftain

EDSY

EDSY is a ship outfitting tool for Elite Dangerous

edsy.org

edit: also here's a dual-huge beam Corvette, this has probably the upper limit in terms of distro draw that most pilots can deal with

EDSY

EDSY is a ship outfitting tool for Elite Dangerous

edsy.org

 

[CMDR X]

A Full Beam Corvette sounds like a fun build to try.

Oh it's fun all right. I kind of feel like Neo fighting Smith with one hand behind his back. And yawning. Lol
Give it a shot.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I did a couple of ground CZs last night. nice little earners and I really do not like space CZs as too bullet spongy for my non meta ships with partial legacy engineering.
over all this will be my primary way of CZ CGs now I think. it didn't start well. my 1st trip in the drop ship vulture took me to a base where the fight was over and was full of scientists etc as usual. the rest worked ok however and I reckon my earnings were probably double what they would have been in my ship for the same time.

(this is as a solo player. maybe different in a group)

 

[Forum Error]

Merely "A-rating" ships isn't enough to outfit properly, that's just the baseline.

All of these hardpoint arrangements are bad for a variety of reasons - too much distro draw going all lasers (you really need Engineering to pull that off with efficient hardpoints & charge enhanced + super conduits distributor, and even then you need to mind a given ship's power distributor size relative to your hardpoint output), overreliance on turrets which are bad for damage output & controlling distro drain, low ammo duration (especially a problem for missiles), there's no reason you would ever want to take torpedos into any combat lasting more than a single target...the most reasonable one is probably the Mamba, out of that bunch.

Here's some example builds so you can do some comparisons and draw conclusions for yourself.

Vanilla+ guardian unlocks Anaconda

EDSY

EDSY is a ship outfitting tool for Elite Dangerous

edsy.org

fully engineered Anaconda

EDSY

EDSY is a ship outfitting tool for Elite Dangerous

edsy.org

Vanilla+ Krait II

EDSY

EDSY is a ship outfitting tool for Elite Dangerous

edsy.org

fully engineered Krait II

EDSY

EDSY is a ship outfitting tool for Elite Dangerous

edsy.org

engineered frag Python II (PvE oriented, as opposed to PvP)

EDSY

EDSY is a ship outfitting tool for Elite Dangerous

edsy.org

engineered Chieftain

EDSY

EDSY is a ship outfitting tool for Elite Dangerous

edsy.org

edit: also here's a dual-huge beam Corvette, this has probably the upper limit in terms of distro draw that most pilots can deal with

EDSY

EDSY is a ship outfitting tool for Elite Dangerous

edsy.org

Thanks for all your examples.

Just got my second victory in a Python all Beam Lasers (turretted) (570K Combat Bonds). Only had to pop 13 of 18 Shield Cells.

I'm not much of a Combat pilot ("Expert" Combat Rank). My ability only extends to shooting them while they shoot you.

Hopefully, I will begin to appreciate some to the wisdom given above as I... work... stuff... out.

Regards,

~Folly

Postscript: Lost the next one, then won one.

 

[AlSki]

Thanks for all your examples.

Just got my second victory in a Python all Beam Lasers (turretted) (570K Combat Bonds). Only had to pop 13 of 18 Shield Cells.

I'm not much of a Combat pilot ("Expert" Combat Rank). My ability only extends to shooting them while they shoot you.

Hopefully, I will begin to appreciate some to the wisdom given above as I... work... stuff... out.

Regards,

~Folly

Sounds like you are running a pure shield build, have you considered a Hybrid build? This will save immensely on Power draw letting you fit some heavier weaponry.

Build your ship somewhat like a hull tank, then add a Bi-Weave that will restore rapidly. Use heat sinks or chaff to temporarily disable enemy targetting rather than shield boosters. This way the shield is soaking up damage adding to your total hit points but if it goes down you don't explode instantly. I've used this to great success during the Thargoid War enabling a Courier to spend lots of time in Combat tackling multiple Thargoids until the Ammo runs out

 

[Uvelius Sång]

Combat is by far the steepest learning curve in this game, not least because balance is nearly nonexistent and the

Oh yes, the game is "unbalanced" like hell and I love it!
That is, "unbalanced" in the sense that an unengineered, inexperiencedly-steered ship will just go boom when experiencing the opposite. Otherwise, the whole lovely making-your-ship-better, kitting-to-fit-the-challenge stuff wouldn't make any sense.
Also, there are easier places (High RESses with police) and harder ones (high CZs) which are deadly to inexperienced Commanders. And this is brilliant. It requires some thinking at the Commander's side, and much more depth than many other games.

Yet ... "unbalanced" in the sense that we do have a massive inflation, though, is not so cool. I mean, come on, 90 mil for tier 1??
Before that, it really had been an achievement to be able to both buy a bigger ship plus being able to pay insurance. Today, credits are just something that lies around. Oh well. At least engineering can't be bought (well aside form Arx ships).

So, YES, "unbalanced" in the sense that there is a challenge and a steep lerning curve is actually good. There are enough softer alternatives out there like No Man's Sky, for those who like that (which is fine). But don't expect brilliant flight models and flight experience there.

 

[Codename]

Got to love when you sign up for a ground combat and as you win and turn to leave, the turrets turn on you for absolutely no ing reason. Very nice. Thanks.

 

[Sylow]

Oh yes, the game is "unbalanced" like hell and I love it!
That is, "unbalanced" in the sense that an unengineered, inexperiencedly-steered ship will just go boom when experiencing the opposite. Otherwise, the whole lovely making-your-ship-better, kitting-to-fit-the-challenge stuff wouldn't make any sense.
Also, there are easier places (High RESses with police) and harder ones (high CZs) which are deadly to inexperienced Commanders. And this is brilliant. It requires some thinking at the Commander's side, and much more depth than many other games.

Yet ... "unbalanced" in the sense that we do have a massive inflation, though, is not so cool. I mean, come on, 90 mil for tier 1??
Before that, it really had been an achievement to be able to both buy a bigger ship plus being able to pay insurance. Today, credits are just something that lies around. Oh well. At least engineering can't be bought (well aside form Arx ships).

So, YES, "unbalanced" in the sense that there is a challenge and a steep lerning curve is actually good. There are enough softer alternatives out there like No Man's Sky, for those who like that (which is fine). But don't expect brilliant flight models and flight experience there.

You contradict yourself in your posting there. You can either say that success is based on the learning curve. Or you can argue, that success by now is based on the grind.

You very much argue for "win by grind". More expensive ships and more engineering are, in your eyes, a good thing. We have over +700% effectively increased shield on a "regular" fully engineered setup and can push even further. The skill difference between two pilots needs to be huge to compensate for this. (I am not saying that a veteran pilot could in an unengineered ship could not beat a beginner in a fully engineered shield. But the gap the veteran would have to bridge would be massive. And unfortunately it's generally the veteran who also enjoys all the benefits of engineering. ) Before even considering the effects of more firepower, easier energy management, etc. from engineering.

You can love that. It's your point of view. I personally still wish the old times back, before engineering was around. We still optimized our ships, but both the grind and the differences in power were way smaller. It was much more of a skill based game, back then. Which was my preference, yet again, merely one point of view.

One can't say that one is better than the other, merely what you as player would prefer. Yet claiming that engineering up, a pure grind, makes you more skilled is not true. It's merely time invested. The whole "skill" invested there was to click a link, where somebody proposed a good setup.