The whole initial idea of combined arms, ships, SRVs, on foot fell absolutely flat on it's face. Ground troops would require shelter and shielded turrets to fight back against ships, Also most ships are just to damn big and would bury a whole settlement under them.
Odyssey Combat is bad.
- Thread starter DemiserofD
- Start date
All it needs is enforcement of the 7Km No Fire Zone for ships, just by making it impossible for ship weapons to be deployed within the zone. then footwork would have to be done on foot...
Are you going to enforce that around crashed ships, sats, smugglers caches and everywhere. You can try force it, they have it doesn't work. The simple problem is a lot of people do not find footwork fun. Blasting people with rockets from the air even if the rewards are lower is fun. All it needs is to be fun and then people will do footwork on foot.
It's not that the ship weapons don't do damage; it's the fact that you simply can't hit a ground target. Even with fixed weapons, the ship wobble in gravitational field makes pinpoint accuracy impossible.
I would say have a 7km no fire zone around settlements and leave other POI alone.
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that would work but it would make base missions pretty painful to get to esp if a rough terrain planet.
worse still if your SRV got destroyed and you were 7km away from your ship when you called it in!. (infact practically that would be a death sentence as your suit would never last ) IF you could call in a crew member to come out to you in an SRV to pick you up that could help but then we are talking significant new features which until now FD have been unwilling or unable to implement (npc driven SRVs)
it is a "bit" gamey as there is no way ships of our size could land undetected however maybe if ships were able to silent running and with weapons unpowered (not just stowed) they could land closer undetected, but the moment you try to power up weapons the ground guns go hot
with the time taken to power up weapons and with no shields that could make things very difficult from the pilots point of view if they wanted to aerial attack, unless base defences had been deactivated, at which point then the players have earned the right to go nuts perhaps
worse still if your SRV got destroyed and you were 7km away from your ship when you called it in!. (infact practically that would be a death sentence as your suit would never last ) IF you could call in a crew member to come out to you in an SRV to pick you up that could help but then we are talking significant new features which until now FD have been unwilling or unable to implement (npc driven SRVs)
it is a "bit" gamey as there is no way ships of our size could land undetected however maybe if ships were able to silent running and with weapons unpowered (not just stowed) they could land closer undetected, but the moment you try to power up weapons the ground guns go hot
with the time taken to power up weapons and with no shields that could make things very difficult from the pilots point of view if they wanted to aerial attack, unless base defences had been deactivated, at which point then the players have earned the right to go nuts perhaps
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'No fire' isn't 'no land' is it? (otherwise we could never land at a station, outpost or port...)
But take on-foot missions anyway, just to punish themselves?
Yes, it is...
I would guess that the folk who find it fun are doing it...
Sometimes your options are no missions or take an "on foot" mission and hope the situation improves when you get back.
They're also likely not creating threads about how it's bad where many people agree it's bad.
Seriously? I just assumed they did since headshots did more damage, or so I thought.
That's a straw man fallacy right there. You're really taking the criticism to the extreme. If you look at what I've posted, I've presented a perspective that is far more middle ground than that. I think all of on foot combat is pants, not just the sniper rifle bit.
But, a slow moving projectile is already at a disadvantage (i.e. vs a moving/patrolling target) at a distance. Unless you meta the hit animation to send a follow up shot instantly, all you've really done is dropped their shields, put them on alert, and sent them running for cover for a shield recharge. But, if Shurimal is right and a body shot can take them down just the same, then you just need to know what area of CM is constant during a hit animation and can double tap that. It's still meta, though.I wonder if their shields ever run out of battery? Do they ever drop them once their alertness normalizes? Can you wait them out and take them in a single shot? I doubt all of this. My money is on mobs being coded with infinite shield batteries/ammo/etc. when they have been alerted to make up for the fact that they don't have brains and we do.
But, I'm going to experiment a little more with stealth and the plasma rifle. To be fair, I found the whole on foot affair to play like a pre-alpha release and generally stopped bothering with on foot combat for the sake of gaming fun, so I haven't explored every nook and cranny of the experience. But, now I'm academically curious...
To be clear, though. I'm not expecting Call of Duty. I'm not really expecting anything, honestly. I would have preferred if the DLC refined and added depth to what was already there with the space flight aspect rather than expand their breadth with a poorly optimized basic FPS element that's in the neighborhood of a second-rate arcade shooter (and adding more ships when inventory is already redundant is really not necessary). Especially when you contrast the two sides of it, the flaws of On Foot are even more apparent. In my opinion, the counter argument here is basically "On Foot wasn't meant to be that great" but is it a counter argument when people are essentially saying "On Foot isn't that great"? Like, we're arguing and agreeing at the same time.
ahh yeah you are right..... i missread and thought you put no fly zone! my bad! i blame lack of sleep and drugged up on pain killers!
When the missions are rubbish, I usually just take a break, find a planet with stuff to harvest, and take the SRV out for a spin. Or, just do a little light mining. Then again, I'm not trying to optimize any grind and just do whatever seems the most interesting wherever I'm at.
"headshots did more damage, or so I thought."
They do but the difference does not make a difference with an Executioner. If you see what I mean.
Assuming a G5 (which I am familiar with) against the weaker targets, one shot will take out a shield, one to kill. Against the tougher targets it is 2* + 2*. Given you are likely to be firing against targets at a longer distance you really need to aim for the centre of mass to be more likely to hit. I usually aim for the groin for the first shot, as the barrel will have lifted a bit when I quickly fire the second shot, even with stability.
* IIRC, a single G5 hit against the head of the toughest target will not be sufficient.
They do but the difference does not make a difference with an Executioner. If you see what I mean.
Assuming a G5 (which I am familiar with) against the weaker targets, one shot will take out a shield, one to kill. Against the tougher targets it is 2* + 2*. Given you are likely to be firing against targets at a longer distance you really need to aim for the centre of mass to be more likely to hit. I usually aim for the groin for the first shot, as the barrel will have lifted a bit when I quickly fire the second shot, even with stability.
* IIRC, a single G5 hit against the head of the toughest target will not be sufficient.
Executioner does so much damage above grade 3 that "headshot is even more damage" becomes irrelevant
There are very few NPC-s that don't die to a single Executioner shot when the shields are down."I wonder if their shields ever run out of battery? Do they ever drop them once their alertness normalizes? Can you wait them out and take them in a single shot? I doubt all of this. My money is on mobs being coded with infinite shield batteries/ammo/etc. when they have been alerted to make up for the fact that they don't have brains and we do."
IIRC, their shields never run out of battery, and they do* drop their shields when there is no immediate danger.
* You do get messages on screen that the enemy is putting their shield up after an alert.
IIRC, their shields never run out of battery, and they do* drop their shields when there is no immediate danger.
* You do get messages on screen that the enemy is putting their shield up after an alert.
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Can confirm. NPC-s indeed are not battery limited and drop their shields after a quiet period. I exploit the latter all the time.
The thing is we already have the technology to make this work; bubble grenades. You basically need two things to make aerial attack impossible, you need to have a shield gate that lasts for a short amount of time instead of just blocking one projectile(this is what makes shotguns so OP right now, they're the only weapon that can kill a shielded enemy in one shot), and then you need to program them to use shield bubble grenades immediately after that and stay inside them. That at least forces you to manually target and destroy each individual shield bubble, and by that point you probably might as well get out and do it on foot.
Of course, the existence of bubble grenades does raise the question of why everyone isn't just spamming them ALL the time. Like, imagine they invented a personal shield capable of protecting you from battleship fire, let alone on-foot fire. Literally every single engagement would turn into a melee brawl because everyone would just spam shield bubble grenades ahead of their squad to protect their advance until their bubble grenade is touching your bubble grenade, and then you're inside.
That...could be an interesting idea, actually. Woah wait, this is really interesting. Imagine if shield bubble grenades, upon contacting each other, REINFORCE AND EXPAND each other? Like two bubbles merging into one? At the start of the fight, the battlefield is covered by individual bubbles allowing people to fire at each other, and maybe a few bubbles get popped, but a perfectly valid alternative strategy is to throw a bubble grenade near your ENEMY, expanding their bubble into potentially exposing their position. As the fight goes on, the bubbles would just persist, getting bigger and bigger until they cover the entire battlefield and the use of bubble grenades inside is effectively prohibited, since it'd just merge with the giant over-arching bubble which only really protects from OUTSIDE attacks.
Thanks for that. I didn't even take any weapons past grade 1 before I decided I didn't like the On Foot combat. I don't think it's going to matter much for me in the bigger picture, but it's good to know (for the sake of accuracy) that the damage differential is basically irrelevant.Executioner does so much damage above grade 3 that "headshot is even more damage" becomes irrelevant
Thanks for saving me the trouble of testing. So, are spawns limited on a scavenging site? Like, can one effectively play the patience game at a distance and eventually clear a salvage site? I've heard there can be three waves of mobs, but not if it caps at three waves.
We also have another technology to stop the ships coming in to attack a settlement - big guns. Really big guns that wreck ships very easily. The recent CG fighting around stations showed that. Settlements can have more of them, its not lkike space is going to be a problem so when you bring your ship in, its gets show down.
So now you land far out and yomp on foot to the target. No need for shields, magic no-fire zones, just a big "come try it, lol" sign.
Makes turning off the point defences much more of a completion task for settlement defence - if you get to command and turn them, off, fighting stops, attackers win.
So now you land far out and yomp on foot to the target. No need for shields, magic no-fire zones, just a big "come try it, lol" sign.
Makes turning off the point defences much more of a completion task for settlement defence - if you get to command and turn them, off, fighting stops, attackers win.
I think maximum 3 spawns seem about right. First on the ground when you arrive and two additional after some time. My favourite weapon for clearing at distance is G5 Aphelion with mag size, stability, scope and noise suppressor--best accuracy, good scope, good enough armor damage against up to level 3 scavs. Another tip: a small ship has its shield bubble extending to the ground, so you can use this as a cover. You can also jump on top of your ship for a vantage point or to escape grenades.
The problem of course is who wants to cross several km of jagged terrain (on-foot or in SRV, doesn't matter) to get to the settlement? Also, how does the station defence know whether you're at the settlement to pick up some Water for your colonization project or to commit mass murder? Also also, these kinds of surface settlements already exist: the Horizon era facilities with trespass zones (although the guns aren't that OP there). There isn't much to do on-foot in these, but I can testify that a Grade 5 Tormentor is very effective at blowing up power generators
the word you are looking for is underground.