ship interiors - will they happen

[Lukaz_Chrom]

I'd just like to see an argument for ship interiors that doesn't involve something we can already do from the cockpit,

So you discount all of "Ship Repair" just because you can install an AFMU?
(Which cannot repair everything AND needs a second slot to repair itself [... and despite everything else that was mentioned]).
Well fine. Let's accept that for a moment.
For yes, the #1 argument has never been gameplay, I never claimed anything else. (Allthough it should and could come at a good #2 [Ship Repair ])
But the #1 would be immersion (with the subsequent $) and I frequently like to use Warframe as an example.
You have an Orbiter there that basically does NOTHING new.

You see, when Warframe released there was only a menue.
You could do everything from within that menue.
THEN they transformed that menue into a Ship Interior which they gradually expanded.
You can still do almost everything from a menue if you want.
But people LOVE this Ship Interior and you cannot believe the amounts of $ ppl have spent to decorate them.
A huge boon here would be the ability to invite friends to come and check them out so you can gloat.
Ofc there should be fancy decorations extremely expensive to craft which btw. would go hand-in-hand with Elites
primary design-philosophy: Insane amounts of endless grind. (Not that I ask for more grind but yeah ... just mentioning)
+
It is extremely important to remember one thing:
We are not asking for a castle, we are asking for a FEW rooms and we are happy with them only beeing accessible via loading-screen and only if the ship is stationary.
If this is really too much too ask, then I'm sorry, but I beg to differ. (IMO, even accessing the Interiors while the Ship travels in a straight line should be a doable)

That tells me they have no good ideas with this and they'd only be doing it to shut us up, which is absolutely not the right motivation that leads to a good game update.

You really do ignore the factor here.
I mean ok, lets pretend that Ship Interiors are actually everything evil and bad that their opponents like to describe them as,
so what XD ?
If they just do a half decent job (and I think it is hard to screw up a few rooms only accesible through loading screens),
FDev will still earn more $ from them than from anything else really, which can then be re-invested into different features.
WITH the added bonus of "shutting us up".


PS:

As much as I would love to have ship interiors myself, they will never be practical until artificial gravity is developed.

I just want to get into my imperial cutter at any time any place and go down one deck to where the jacuzzi is located. Of course, without artificial gravity that place is going to be a mess, with water all over the place.

This IS a good point, but this really comes down to a design decision.
FDev could just come up with a galnet-news-story and introduce artificial grav (as Cosmo suggested)
OR (as I like to say) they could just do it XD ...
As I love to say: Did ANYONE ever complain about Luk and Han not fLoATinG ArOUnD in the Falcon ?
BUT:
FDev obviously went for a far more realistic depiction of space and I respect that.
Furthermore, the #1-design inspiration for Elite was likely Kubricks 2001 Masterpiece
Ergo. I guess the good old Magnet Boots will be the way <D
BUT²:
If you want a jacuzzi I see no issue with that either, just have a force-field prevent the water from flowing around
And that's just an idea I had like, after 5s thinking about it.
Any creative writer/designer with at least half of a brain can come up with solutions to such questions.

...
All I ever wanted in Elite was to stand on that lookout-deck of my Anaconda and gaze at the Stars ...

 

[Jack Winter]

I don't think the discussion is about evil and bad, not even about shutting up a few vocal individuals..

It really is about what will the new gameplay be, and if there is no new gameplay I seriously doubt that Frontier will finish developing them.

I'd personally be fine with derelicts, and shooting ships up until they can be boarded and looted, or possibly be captured in their entirety.

 

[Lukaz_Chrom]

Again, the problem exists that for any argument about what FDev could add with ship interiors, is why they're not already doing it with carrier interiors - especially cosmetics, since that interior already exists and we even have an office in there that surely is the lowest hanging of fruit for more customisation option.

Very good question:
Very simple answer:
A. VERY VERY FEW ppl own a fleet carrier in contrast to those that don't [I have 2,5k hours and will likely never own one].
B. Guess what: There are TONS of fleet carrier customization options nevertheless already; Just not for the insides yet because that framework hasn't been programmed yet XD
I can almost gurantee you though, as soon as personal Ship Interior Decorations are out, you will be able to do so for Fleet-Carriers too.

PS:

It really is about what will the new gameplay be, and if there is no new gameplay I seriously doubt that Frontier will finish developing them.

Ship Repair, which I will not get tierd of repeating, and which no AFMU can save you from.
I mean, to name another point, is the idea really so far fetched, that I MAYBE just want to save a slot ? For like ... anything else?
And if you don't want to accept Ship Repair as an answer, then I guess sorry.
BUT: As mentioned, while gameplay is ofc A big factor, it is not the do-all & break-all factor you seem to paint it as.
That would be customer-satisfaction, aka. $ => Ship Decoration / Immersion.

 

[Jack Winter]

Boo for ship repairs as a reason to do interiors, and boo for the idea of a cut scene moving from the bridge to the inside.

Like others point out we can already repair all but the power plant or the afmu itself (if not carrying two).

But give me EVA and boarding of ships then we're probably onto something.

 

[Lukaz_Chrom]

Boo for ship repairs as a reason to do interiors, and boo for the idea of a cut scene moving from the bridge to the inside.

Like others point out we can already repair all but the power plant or the afmu itself (if not carrying two).

But give me EVA and boarding of ships then we're probably onto something.

Well congrats. I have respect for anyone that simply outright admits when he is against something for personal-preference reasons.
At least "Boo" is a more respectable argument than trying to find hairs in a soup which simply don't exist.
[Yet when it comes to the "cutscene", it is a loading-screen, not a "cutscene" XD and OF COURSE I'd rather have a seamless transition as well,
thing is, it is a technical compromise that might actually be unavoidable, BUT a compromise that would be MORE than worth it, that you can believe!
Especially if they mask it with the same elevator-system they basically already have.]

Ah yes, + I forgot smth:

As I said previously, if thats the level of input FDev are willing to put into the on foot part of the game after all that time spent fixing it in the first place, better to stick with the space flight stuff, because at least they're passionate about that (to be fair, I wouldn't blame any of the devs who were involved in fixing Odyssey post launch for never wanting to touch any part of on foot gameplay ever again- if you don't touch it, you don't break it).

And you are right
FDev already DID THAT ² After Odyssey released, we basically got almost nothing in terms of content, actual fixes etc. for a VERY long time. (Except for Thargoids I guess)
Loud voices began to already proclaim Elites actual death via "maintanance-mode".
Guess what forced FDev to return to their once-GoldMule?
:
Or rather ... the fact that they desperately needed it after the failures of their other projects and their subsequent 90% stock drop.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Not that many players own carriers? Did I miss some sarcasm here?

The framework does already exist for carrier interior liveries, FDev haven't built on it or seen fit to make any of them Arx purchasable. Plenty of ship kits and paint jobs have been made in that time though.

The issue is gameplay, and there isn't anything new to add. You keep mentioning ship repair, but I'm not alone in never repairing myships outside of stations, because we simply don't have to as it's quicker to just get to our destination. I've had my powerplant sniped in PvP fights, didn't matter, I just carried on with 50% output.


Glad you mentioned that. Yes, Odyssey was one of the causes of their problems they had that resulted in them scaling back in some areas
So they went back to basics of what made the game good. Space flight. Anything else relies on game mechanics that it turns out really aren't popular.

There is plenty of extra and good content that can be added to on foot gameplay, whether that's ship interiors or something else. It just hasn't been done yet, unfortunately. I really so enjoy the on foot gameplay, but it's limited in the variation of what you can do.

There needs to be more, whether that's exploring the interiors of crashed ships on planets or space EVA to derelict ships in space (for mission rewards or PP rewards), or getting missions to get a piece if software from a scavenger base on a planet which you could in various ways, go with violence or stealth your way in using the cutting tools etc.

I really like the mechanics we have for on foot play, there is just not enough options to use them.

To say there isn't that much to add is just wrong. There is a ton that can be added which would make the on-foot gameplay much better.

 

[Lukaz_Chrom]

Not that many players own carriers? Did I miss some sarcasm here?

No you didn't <D
Sure I would personally estimate that there is a surely a LARGE amount of ppl that own one.
But dude, nowhere NEAR next to the ppl that don't <D² (and nowhere near ready to stand on their own legs)
"Potential-Customerbase" is the keyword here.

The framework does already exist for carrier interior liveries, FDev haven't built on it or seen fit to make any of them Arx purchasable. Plenty of ship kits and paint jobs have been made in that time though.

Dude ... Uhhhh "liveries" have NOTHING to do with a framework to actually put LARGE variably spacable interior decorations into a walkable space.
The CLOSEST thing we have for this are the bobbleheads XD
This is about CODING, not about the storefront <D

The issue is gameplay, and there isn't anything new to add. You keep mentioning ship repair, but I'm not alone in never repairing myships outside of stations, because we simply don't have to as it's quicker to just get to our destination. I've had my powerplant sniped in PvP fights, didn't matter, I just carried on with 50% output.

That is a decision you are free to make, and yes, it is totally viable.
But given how comparably easy it would be to implement Ship Repair, why not have the option?
There are no "downsides" to Ship Repair <D
EXCEPT for someone SPECIFICALLY not desiering to "get his hands dirty" so to speak.
And personally, I do in fact RESPECT THAT
I never called for the "removal" of the AFMU after all <D²

Glad you mentioned that. Yes, Odyssey was one of the causes of their problems they had that resulted in them scaling back in some areas
So they went back to basics of what made the game good. Space flight. Anything else relies on game mechanics that it turns out really aren't popular.

Ah yes ...
And that includes the recently added Base-Building I assume
(If you even deign to call it that ... I prefer "Station-Spawning")
+
atm. ALL the Odyssey-Gameply still lacks the certain smth.
It is STILL an unfinished cake ...
But the redemption is close! The doors simply have to open
So why leave it unfinished?


PS:
I absolutely AM AWARE that Ship Repair is 100% NOT as desired of a feature for Ship Interiors than say EVA,
BUT understand my PoV for a moment (yes I am biast towards Ship Repair because I like machines and stuff ;D)
BUT² whenever I argue for something I first think of its economic viability, and Ship Repair (especially if restricted to core-modules [or even JUST the Power Plant])
would be LEAGUES cheaper to implemet (as in easier to code) ...
just saying

 

[Ian Doncaster]

You keep mentioning ship repair, but I'm not alone in never repairing myships outside of stations, because we simply don't have to as it's quicker to just get to our destination. I've had my powerplant sniped in PvP fights, didn't matter, I just carried on with 50% output.

There's certainly a very narrow band of danger level and scenario where:
- your ship takes any damage worth caring about at all
- your ship is not actually destroyed
- you have a spare N seconds/minutes to leave the ship drifting while you fix it because whatever caused the initial damage has stopped
- this is going to be a better or more convenient idea than heading to the nearest station before anything else goes wrong

Long-range exploration without carrier support is the obvious case at the moment.

That could be changed in theory to make it a much more common event, without outright breaking anything for people who didn't own the interiors expansion:
- more routine presence of module-damaging hits through shields
- much higher supercruise interdiction chances so patching up between fights makes sense
- more sophisticated damage model for modules (rather than so many of them being "works absolutely fine down to 1% integrity, then suddenly fails") so that even minor damage does something noticeable
- significant reduction in AFMU speeds so that a manual fix is quicker (the AFMU's advantage is that you can keep using the ship in the meantime)
...but it doesn't feel likely to be something Frontier wants to do given the direction of travel over the last decade.

 

[jojon]

Always imagined any manual repair option as a trade-off alternative. You save on AFMU/repair limpet slots, but lose all their convenience and expedience, and can duct-tape things together enough to limp home, but getting back to mint condition takes the expertise and resources of a workshop...

This would go both for own ship, and aided NPCs.

As for availing oneself to... "found" ships, I guess that could upset some things, but maybe if it were only ever possible in specific cases, by which I mean bespoke mission rewards for the completion of one story quest "disk" or other (EDIT: ...or temporary loaners to go with it). :9

 

[thistle]

I don't think the discussion is about evil and bad, not even about shutting up a few vocal individuals..

Evil and bad, the new Haters.

Hyperbole inflation is crazy these days.

 

[thistle]

"Potential-Customerbase" is the keyword here.

That's three words.

 

[PilotB]

can duct-tape things together enough to limp home, but getting back to mint condition takes the expertise and resources of a workshop...

We've got that already. That's what repair reset does so you'd be adding a time consuming manual loop to do what the computer can already do in 5 seconds at the click of a button. You could make it better than automatic but that makes less sense that the space magic auto repair is worse than some guy with a hammer. At the moment interiors are a solution looking for a problem and honestly we should do something useful with station and carrier interiors, add hub and abandonned site interiors before we go try and create a problem for ship interiors to solve. The interiors we do have do not make me desire further interiors.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

At the moment interiors are a solution looking for a problem

Indeed. If FD had factored in the possibility of doing internal repairs from the start then they wouldn't have implemented the AMFU or repair limpets (or at least implemented them with some limitations).

For any interior gameplay it needs to add something new to the game, not replicate existing functionality or add new problems to the game where none existed before.

 

[Cosmo]

At the moment interiors are a solution looking for a problem and honestly we should do something useful with station and carrier interiors, add hub and abandonned site interiors before we go try and create a problem for ship interiors to solve. The interiors we do have do not make me desire further interiors.

Now we have half-baked ships, because the internal compartments are mostly invisible (only exist in menu stats). What should be accessible on-foot?

1. Cargo Racks
2. Fighter Hangar
3. Passenger Cabin
   1. Captain's quarters
4. Planetary Vehicle Hangar
5. Refinery
6. Shield Generator
7. Frame Shift Drive

The core problem / frustration for many players is being stuck in the pilot seat. The solution is to add interiors which gives players the freedom to walk around in their own ship. For functionality, gameplay there's already 100s of suggestions on the forum.

We can walk on planets, in the Concourse and FC. However, when you teleport to the cockpit / deck... the player becomes the ship. You are a vehicle, rather than a person. That's not immersive, because the player should be an autonomous person in a vessel.

 

[PilotB]

The core problem is being stuck in the pilot seat.

That isn't a problem and you're not stuck there. Solution go walk around all the stuff you can already walk around and if that doesn't scratch your walking itch what makes you think a few dead rooms would?

 

[Cosmo]

That isn't a problem

Yes it is a problem, because it's very restrictive, like a prisoner chained to the pilot seat. The vision for Elite is that players are people in this universe. Currently, we're still the vehicle when we get inside the ship.

and you're not stuck there.

When the player teleports to the pilot seat then we are stuck there until we teleport back outside the ship. It's not immersive at all. There's no teleportation tech in Elite lore either.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Reordering your list slightly, I think it includes two pairs of interior spaces where it's absolutely critical for "immersion" to avoid showing the player the contents of both.

The small optional internals

1. Cargo Racks
2. Passenger Cabin

The big optional internals

1. Fighter Hangar
2. Planetary Vehicle Hangar

Anyone who wanted ship interiors for "immersion" would likely not enjoy being able to compare close-up the volumes of a class 7 internal used as a fighter hangar and a class 7 internal used as a cargo bay or passenger cabin. Right now - see all the complaints about the Panther Clipper's "magic" cargo racks - players tend not to do the actual sums that would make them realise that our ships are 90-99% empty space and the scale of the optional internals is extremely arbitrary, and anything which draws that to their attention (even something as easily explicable as a 50% bigger cargo rack usable only in spaces specifically designed for it [1]) is potentially a problem.

A 6D fighter hangar can hold 2 Guardian SLFs ready to launch - which are pretty big. Or it can hold 32 economy class passengers or 64t of cargo, which take up a tiny amount of space.

Best, on the whole, to stick a big "no user-servicable parts inside" label on all the optional spaces and seal them off from the rest of the ship.

[1] The 2A refinery (6t) has always been 50% bigger in terms of carryable cargo than the size 2 cargo rack (4t) and is also able to store those 6t in a mass-isolated pocket where they don't affect the ship's handling. So this is very much about "draws it to players attention" rather than "exists in-game". See also the way all the consequences of there being no artificial gravity in the setting were consistently ignored for years in terms of both game mechanics and visual design, and that was only a problem once players could get out and walk around outposts up close.

 

[Jinx Chrome]

For any interior gameplay it needs to add something new to the game, not replicate existing functionality or add new problems to the game where none existed before.

let me use that argument against:

1. Module engineering
2. Horizons planetary landings
3. everything in Odyssey
4. Colonisation
5. almost any other feature which was added

 

[Agony_Aunt]

let me use that argument against:

1. Module engineering
2. Horizons planetary landings
3. everything in Odyssey
4. Colonisation
5. almost any other feature which was added

LOL, you have a point to some extent.

 

[PilotB]

1. Module engineering
2. Horizons planetary landings
3. everything in Odyssey
4. Colonisation

You picked a list of features that are politely worded less than good. Makes a compelling argument against adding ship interiors when everything on that list requires a serious rework.