True, I forgot that this was it's main drawback as explorer. So the C5 is the first small ship with a C5. Ironically mine is set up as an explorer and uses the size 5 for the FSD booster and just a size 4 scoop. Tank is small enough so that doesn't matter.
ship interiors - will they happen
- Thread starter Woakes
- Start date
[...]
I think that our view on interiors doesn't differ that much as it seemed when we entered the discussion.
I'd say that most (almost everyone) would like to see interiors in a meaningful way (i.e. game play and fun) with an option to shortcut tedious loops (e.g. running the same boring corridors) and the ability to ignore them completely (through the ability of not having to buy them, just like Odyssey).
I believe that this would make most players happy, except a few people where I don't understand what would actually make them happy. Ok, I know of a certain infamous YT streamer that his business model is <redacted>.
I guess the main hurdle for FDev is to obtain the internal development budget and actually do it because it poses a certain risk.
I think that our view on interiors doesn't differ that much as it seemed when we entered the discussion.
I'd say that most (almost everyone) would like to see interiors in a meaningful way (i.e. game play and fun) with an option to shortcut tedious loops (e.g. running the same boring corridors) and the ability to ignore them completely (through the ability of not having to buy them, just like Odyssey).
I believe that this would make most players happy, except a few people where I don't understand what would actually make them happy. Ok, I know of a certain infamous YT streamer that his business model is <redacted>.
I guess the main hurdle for FDev is to obtain the internal development budget and actually do it because it poses a certain risk.
Ship interiors done right can be a big win. Unlike a game like Starfield ED can't rely on a modding community to implement things the developers were too busy/uncreative/unwilling to put in though. Starfield in the beginning had pretty interiors, but no other function than a bed to sleep/wait and crafting stations. Modders have added massively to that. One of the first things was making infirmaries actually work as healing stations. A whole framework of capturing enemies alive, putting them into the ship's brig and then selling them off to the authorities was added from scratch by modders. Next up were mess halls that you can actually call your crew to to meet up and eat. In a really big ship this is also a nice way to find all crew members, simply get them all together. Another mod added EVA. Yet another removed the randomness of where your crew is and what it does by actually assigning stations to them which they occupy in flight, work and off time schedules. One mod added actual Star Trek teleporters, allowing you to board another ship that has it's shields down, without the need to physically dock. Holodecks with shooting ranges exist too. I'm fairly sure I've forgotten some things, and I'm even more sure that even more things will be added in the future.
I reckon if they looked at interiors as a possible feature, all the rework needed (exterior modelling such as scaling, entry points, cockpit level of detail and scaling) probably put them off.[...]
I think that our view on interiors doesn't differ that much as it seemed when we entered the discussion.
I'd say that most (almost everyone) would like to see interiors in a meaningful way (i.e. game play and fun) with an option to shortcut tedious loops (e.g. running the same boring corridors) and the ability to ignore them completely (through the ability of not having to buy them, just like Odyssey).
I believe that this would make most players happy, except a few people where I don't understand what would actually make them happy. Ok, I know of a certain infamous YT streamer that his business model is <redacted>.
I guess the main hurdle for FDev is to obtain the internal development budget and actually do it because it poses a certain risk.
Oh boy Starfield... agree the interiors in that game are top notch, unfortunately the ships don't really fly (outside the space 'arenas') so they feel more like houses... design wise though that's at least one feature that the devs did very well.
As for the game itself... now those would be 70 Euros I'd rather have back. Likely the last Beth game I'll ever buy, and unlike various other titles in the past I didn't even bother finishing the main quest. Utter tedium and the ship interiors are utterly wasted on it.
As for the game itself... now those would be 70 Euros I'd rather have back. Likely the last Beth game I'll ever buy, and unlike various other titles in the past I didn't even bother finishing the main quest. Utter tedium and the ship interiors are utterly wasted on it.
Oof, you like living dangerously!
Dangerously true, they say that perseverance is the key, and so a few of us will be suspended trying to obtain those improvements... as the video clearly demonstrates....
Hehe
I can't think of any other 'low budget approach' to make interiors a possibility. Of course, I'd love to see them for all ships with full game play integrated but unless a random billionaire jumps in and funds that project (similar to Bezos with 'The Expanse') without expecting ROI, I don't see another way forward.
EDIT: missing bracket
I guess I would be one of those whaling the interiors, if their price seems reasonable to me.Hehe
I can't think of any other 'low budget approach' to make interiors a possibility. Of course, I'd love to see them for all ships with full game play integrated but unless a random billionaire jumps in and funds that project (similar to Bezos with 'The Expanse') without expecting ROI, I don't see another way forward.
EDIT: missing bracket
'reasonable' could mean a big range for a DLC
For myself I would spend up to 60€ for such an expansion (all the meaningful stuff included) but I am aware that this would be way over the price which most players would pay, I guess.
Let's do some guesswork how much a DLC needs to cost: I guess a sensible price for an 'Interiors DLC' would be around 30-35€. Let's multiply that with 5-8k early buyers, then you get the potential revenue as a basis to finance the project. The margin is probably a good 25% lower (optimistically). I do not know enough about the inner workings and cost structures for a dev studio in UK and can't say how many dev days, asset designers you can afford with that money... And that's why I arrived with the idea of developing the interiors only for a handful of the new ships plus game play because the game play needs to be the focus or it won't attract any further players than the first adopters.
I leave that up for discussion
35 euro times 8000 purchases at 25% overheads is about £250,000 in UK spending, which would probably pay for a team of four for one year (including equipment costs, non-cash compensation, etc). On the scale of ED's income and expenditure it's not quite a rounding error, but it's still pretty small (about equivalent to two week's ED income over the last year, so probably not that far off two week's expenditure either)
Odyssey - which was a massive failure financially, of course - raised about £7 million on the strength of pre-orders and early sales, looking at Frontier's investor presentations. They then wrote off a further £7 million loss on it a year later, so it must have cost at least £14 million and maybe a bit more to develop. (And these are in 2021 £s, so add a bit more on again for inflation to get 2025-equivalent costs)
So a DLC of Odyssey scale, sold at something like Odyssey's original £35 price, would need something like 400,000 sales to break even (and it got maybe half that in its first year, almost all in the first month). To get it to work with a mere 8,000 sales those 8,000 would then need to spend about £1,750 each on ARX extras for it.
Obviously there's room to decide that ship interiors would be a smaller expansion than Odyssey and so only cost e.g. half as much to develop, put the basic price up a bit to allow for inflation, guess sales numbers larger than 8,000 but smaller than 400,000 that require vaguely plausible ARX spends, etc. I'm sure those who want to hope can find a set of numbers which they can believe.
thanks for adding some numbers.
I consider myself being an optimist, albeit knowing that a massive Interiors DLC which contains a lot of gameplay (boarding in 0g) and assets isn't realistic.
What gives me hope is that a lot of the game engine mechanics (on foot) and (partially) the assets (bridges) do exist. The main work is the game play loops (and we need at least 3 or 4 like ship repairs, with or without EVA, shenanigans with cargo (e.g. loading/unloading, passengers), research lab, looting a stranded ship, meaningful use of our cabin, airlock to planetside) which are not immensely difficult but are time consuming to create a smooth experience.
As much as ED's revenue was used to cross-fund other FDev projects, it is about time to funnel money back from PlanCo and Jurassic Park to ED!
SHIP INTERIORS: Are we asking the wrong question?
The environment (aka interiors) for testing what ppl think about interiors already exist. Simply finish the bridge (aka cockpit) by adding the ability to get up out of the chair and do stuff that is available in that space. Its already modeled. Interact with the crew you hire that you call to the bridge. Disembark, jump in an SLF or SRV are available through the door or airlock that all ships have. There is game play opportunities there; the eyes simply need to open up wide.
I've always been intrigued by people who dislike ship interiors, when the truth is the possibilities are practically endless. Starfield has been very successful in taking the first step in motivating the community to create modifications for its own game. Perhaps Frontier doesn't need to leave everything in the hands of the players in the same way, but one economic strategy that can generate significant profits for players and money is to leave some aspects of the game in the hands of its own community. For example, the creation of player-run economies, factions, and guilds are some of the discoveries that MMORPGs have made over the years that seek to prolong their longevity.
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Watch the Buur video linked above. Buur certainly isn't against, or wouldn't welcome them, but makes some good points about if they might happen.
It is a very sensible video dealing with the topic.
Following his suggestion (but also what I and others said a few times above), we should go away from saying "Interiors" and ask for 'Interiors with meaningful gameplay".
That's what I'm doing now xD
Team of 2 maybe 3 if you go junior. It's usually fair to double the employees wage and consider that the total cost to the company per year when you consider taxes, administration and all the equipment, licenses, insurance and other boring things that go on top of the developer taking home 50k/yr. 50k isn't un unreasonable wage for a mid range software engineer. Even at a graduate wage you'd have used most of the 250k on 3 juniors if they got what google is calling an average graduate wage of around 38k and then you'd lose senior dev time training them up.