Is the Panther Clipper 2 actually a SCO starship, or perhaps not?

Aleks Zuno

Aleks Zuno
From what some Commanders are reporting, not having the cargo interest to get a Panther myself—it sounds very much as if the Panther SCO is no better than any other starship with a class 7 FSD.

For some theory versus recently-measured numbers:
  • The 7A SCO FSD should have 58% SCO maximum speed increase; this means 58% over (close enough to) 2000 c, or 3160 c.
  • In practice due to SCO control loss, an Imperial Cutter with that FSD reaches typically 3060 c, and I managed to record 3090 c once while holding it as steady as I could.
While the fuel usage of the Panther SCO is expected to be high due to the class 7 core fuel tank, I did not expect a report of the Panther also achieving only around 3060 c, suggesting it has no inherent SCO speed advantage as all other starship releases since the Python 2 have had. I suppose a good additional test could be Panther versus Beluga Liner SCO fuel, to match like-with-like as far as that aspect is concerned.

The 3060 c Panther SCO claim could also be inaccurate; I am quite interested in any corroboration there either way!
 

kofeyh

kofeyh
Aleks Zuno said:
From what some Commanders are reporting, not having the cargo interest to get a Panther myself—it sounds very much as if the Panther SCO is no better than any other starship with a class 7 FSD.
Click to expand...

Better in what way? The 2 kilo-ton monster still clocks upwards of 3k c under SCO boost, clocked around 2600c. It just a takes a bit to get there.

Aleks Zuno said:
For some theory versus recently-measured numbers:
  • The 7A SCO FSD should have 58% SCO maximum speed increase; this means 58% over (close enough to) 2000 c, or 3160 c.
  • In practice due to SCO control loss, an Imperial Cutter with that FSD reaches typically 3060 c, and I managed to record 3090 c once while holding it as steady as I could.
Click to expand...

It's adorable you'd expect logical numbers for SCO based on FSD size, when every SCO capable ship uses a different and undocumented ratio. :)

Aleks Zuno said:
While the fuel usage of the Panther SCO is expected to be high due to the class 7 core fuel tank, I did not expect a report of the Panther also achieving only around 3060 c, suggesting it has no inherent SCO speed advantage as all other starship releases since the Python 2 have had. I suppose a good additional test could be Panther versus Beluga Liner SCO fuel, to match like-with-like as far as that aspect is concerned.


The 3060 c Panther SCO claim could also be inaccurate; I am quite interested in any corroboration there either way!
Click to expand...

The fastest SCO ship is Cobra iirc, everything else is slower by varying percentages, with Mandalay clocking the slowest in return for sipping fuel; there is no consistency and it's a 'vibes' based design decision. So don't lose too much sleep.

Also it's terrifying using SCO for Cutter due to the multi-light-second turning circle. Equally, I have no need for the 2 kilo-ton monster to outrun a cobra as there is still the need to both slow down and turn. xD
 
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Kira Goto

Kira Goto
Mr Lindsay said:
Has it ever been the case that SCO ships were supposed to be faster than equivalents?
I thought it was just that handling, heat, and fuel consumption that were improved, which makes it easier to attain those speeds in in SCO vessels.
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I think the Python MKII, T8 and Mandalay each have relatively unique SCO handling relative to each other with the same SCO FSD size (eg the Mandy is slightly slower at its top end but runs more stable, if I recall Frontier's words, and even with an A rated doesn't appear to overheat at all), also possibly beating out non-optimized ships. Can't speak to the Cobra or Corsair, not having picked up either, nor having an interest to.

My current experience with the Panther suggests it does have SCO optimization, but also haven't gone on any longer treks to ports or distant planets/construction sites to actually test it properly. Still, that initial startup period and its acceleration/deceleration are indicative of it. Fuel consumption rate... I have not paid attention. Shouldn't be anywhere near as high as a Cutter or T10's, or I suppose most accurately a Beluga's with the same size of FSD and (default) fuel tank, though.
 

kofeyh

kofeyh
Need to add a correction; SCO clocked around 2600c. The ramp up is quite slow for PC, which seems to be by design. I quite prefer it as the thing doesn't just hop up and sprint across a system, since it has turning circle in super-cruise, measured in eras.
 
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Shurimal

Shurimal
I did a ~280000 ls SCO test flight yesterday. Started with about 90...95% fuel after 4 or 5 local station-to-surface cargo hauls, at the end had around 26...30% fuel left. Handling was quite smooth (maybe not as smooth as Cobra V, but still smooth), maximum heat by the end of the flight was around 75...77% with 7A grade 5 armoured reactor and the pre-engineered SCO drive, didn't need a heatsink at all. I didn't note down the max speed, though. I think I hit 2600c or thereabouts. Overall I'm really happy with the SCO performance, it's just what I wanted for a silly little colonization project I have in mind🙂
 

Cmdr Snuffler

Cmdr Snuffler
Helmut Grokenberger said:
How is the heat long range? Yesterday I only used the SCO to skip like 1k or so, so I didn't find out.
Click to expand...
Good.
Handling: Good. A little bit of a minor wobble compared to say the Cmk5, but nothing massive. 200x better than a non SCO optimised ship.
Heat: Very, very slowly increased to 70. (Armoured PP)
Fuel: Very good fuel usage even at full SCO speed. Mandalay is the best, but PCMk2 is still very good and with the large fuel tank you can travel a long distance.
Speed: 3060-3090 LS. Slower than other SCO ships.
 

Aleks Zuno

Aleks Zuno
Thank you all! From the sounds of it:
  • The Panther heat, fuel and control loss are all appropriately low for a new SCO vessel.
  • The Panther indeed has no extra-special SCO speed beyond that of normal vessels.
Such that it is a SCO vessel, just with the non-speed aspects.


kofeyh said:
It's adorable you'd expect logical numbers for SCO based on FSD size, when every SCO capable ship uses a different and undocumented ratio. :)
Click to expand...

Exactly that issue was why I verified the theoretical numbers against a Imperial Cutter test, not one of the new starships! I am well aware that we have four new class 5 FSD toys and three different speeds between them, all higher than previous starships with class 5; the interesting observation from Commanders talking with me was that the Panther seemed to match the Imperial Cutter speed quite exactly.


Mr Lindsay said:
Has it ever been the case that SCO ships were supposed to be faster than equivalents?
Click to expand...

Indeed not necessarily, but they have been thus far! The Panther seems to be the first with no speed improvement over old ships with the same FSD.

For a little overview:
  • 7A FSD adds 58% for 3160c on old ships, which the Panther seems to match (minus the little bit for control loss of course).
  • 5A FSD adds 95% for 3900c on old ships; Mandalay has 4200c, Type-8 and Corsair have around 4500c, and Python 2 has 5200c.
  • 4A FSD adds 107% for 4140c on old ships, which the Cobra 5 exceeds emphatically with over 7000c.
 

Danieros

D
SCO introduced this whole different-per-size maximum speed limit, when previously every ship would go up to 2001c.

Personally I'm very happy with the Panther. It does well enough for low multi-hundred supercruises, and should still significantly cut down time for the rarer >500k ones.

I think it's a bit weird if every other SCO ship had speed improvements versus the same class old ships and the Panther is the first one which didn't. May be worth an issue report to see if it gets acknowledged or closed as "by design".
 

Brieus

Brieus
tomalus said:
the cutter spins around in circles when you put sco on
the sco ships stay on target even if you let go the controls
Click to expand...

I don't have a cutter, but compared to the Anaconda it's like it is running on slightly bumpy rails instead of a tree branch.
 

BDelacroix

BDelacroix
Another ship you can walk up the gangplank to the door on.
1753304146666.png
 

kofeyh

kofeyh
Aleks Zuno said:
Indeed not necessarily, but they have been thus far! The Panther seems to be the first with no speed improvement over old ships with the same FSD.
Click to expand...

SCO is a time compression mechanic. Not speed. SCO enables a ship to accelerate rapidly. And to loop back to the original question, the Panther Clipper is a SCO native ship, how fast it's super-cruise speed actually is, is not relevant in that context. Indeed, the speeds are 'vibes' based and come down to what Frontier feel is appropriate for the ship.

All of that, again, has no relevance to the question. A ship is either SCO-native, or it isn't. The PC is indeed SCO-native. How fast it might clock going past the local constabulary, is a different question.

Also, if you are trying to find an excuse to obtain a Panther Clipper, based on technicality, I technically think it's great and you should absolutely get one if that's what you're actually asking. xD
 
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ruifo

R
Aleks Zuno said:
From what some Commanders are reporting, not having the cargo interest to get a Panther myself—it sounds very much as if the Panther SCO is no better than any other starship with a class 7 FSD.

For some theory versus recently-measured numbers:
  • The 7A SCO FSD should have 58% SCO maximum speed increase; this means 58% over (close enough to) 2000 c, or 3160 c.
  • In practice due to SCO control loss, an Imperial Cutter with that FSD reaches typically 3060 c, and I managed to record 3090 c once while holding it as steady as I could.
While the fuel usage of the Panther SCO is expected to be high due to the class 7 core fuel tank, I did not expect a report of the Panther also achieving only around 3060 c, suggesting it has no inherent SCO speed advantage as all other starship releases since the Python 2 have had. I suppose a good additional test could be Panther versus Beluga Liner SCO fuel, to match like-with-like as far as that aspect is concerned.

The 3060 c Panther SCO claim could also be inaccurate; I am quite interested in any corroboration there either way!
Click to expand...

100% SCO optimized, no issues so far

1753320909858.png
 
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