What does Nakato Kaine stand FOR?

[DemiserofD]

I've been reading up on Nakato Kaine, and it really feels like she doesn't stand FOR anything, only AGAINST things. Like, she was against expansionism. She was against the Sirius Defense Pact. She was against Mahon's administration, and she was against Sirius influence in the Alliance.

But as of yet, she's not really shown what she's for? I debated joining her at the start, because I like the color green, but honestly, that's about the only thing I feel I can really say about her. She likes green. Or at least, she's not AGAINST green. She could be argued in some circles to not be against the concept of green? Even the latest CG kinda avoided giving her any sort of strong stance, only saying things about Mahon, not what Kaine would actually do instead.

Kaine's supporters claim that "the Sirius pact was paper covering the cracks of Mahon's economic weakness", pointed to as evidence of "Mahon's over-reliance on megacorporate support to get things done."

Any chance we could get some deeper characterization on Kaine, Fdev? Let us know what she stands for instead of what she stands against? Or is she MEANT to be viewed as a simple reactionary without any real stance of her own except for being against everything that's going on?

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Being against is why I pledged to her. She's not empire and doesn't have blue hair, so that's good. She's not a fedneck either, so that's better. And she's not that punchable face (we call it Backpfeifengesicht) Mahon, so that's a plus too.

I couldn't really see me pledging to any of the independent ones, and Kaine had going for her that she's new(ish), offered the Concord Cannon first which I was curious about, and she supports my mining habit, which is nice. Also I liked her territory being in the old world.

I didn't chose her on any of her political views, so maybe you're on to something. But don't tell her I said that, I am afraid of her stern look.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Kaine's primary policy is that the Alliance should not be a superpower along the centralist lines of the Federation or Empire.

So by and large she's against having policies which apply to the entire Alliance, because most of those things should be left up to the individual systems as far as possible.

It doesn't make for a great soundbite, and going up against everyone's favourite arms dealer isn't a popular stance, but it's a more interesting basis for action than the nine Powers who want to maintain the status quo, but without having quite the same distance from normal society as Antal or Delaine.

 

[DemiserofD]

That is fascinatingly paradoxical. She needs power to prevent others from having power so she can also not have power? I suppose it's just a matter of whether people trust her to follow through should she ever become leader of the Alliance.

I guess she's the 'true libertarian' Power? It'd be interesting to have some galnet events where she actively refuses to help some people under her control because to do so would require collaborative effort which she is ethically opposed to.

 

[Unknown Zombie]

I joined because she was against corporatism, standing vocally against Mahon kissing Sirius' ass.

Annoyingly, the organized PP group on discord seems to disregard her supplied lore blurb and they basically treat her like "Little Mahon" and "we're all buddies" with coordinated system handoffs between the two, and it basically just seems the Mahon players who had PMFs in systems that she inherited joined her, and, well, it may as well have been that nothing even changed. The only nearby faction we "officially" have "free reign" to "beat up on" is Winters for whatever stupid reason.

I toyed with the idea of leaving and joining someone else, like Delaine. But I have to be honest with myself that even if I am annoyed with the pledges her bonuses are still the most in-line with what I like to do in the game and I do like the lore she was given. So, I'll just take her little lore blurb at my own face value and just go about my own business doing as I will.

 

[Rubbernuke]

distance from normal society as Antal or Delaine

puts down Kumo burger

You saying Antal and The King are.....not normal?

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I joined because she was against corporatism, standing vocally against Mahon kissing Sirius' ass.

Annoyingly, the organized PP group on discord seems to disregard her supplied lore blurb and they basically treat her like "Little Mahon" and "we're all buddies" with coordinated system handoffs between the two, and it basically just seems the Mahon players who had PMFs in systems that she inherited joined her, and, well, it may as well have been that nothing even changed. The only nearby faction we "officially" have "free reign" to "beat up on" is Winters for whatever stupid reason.

Yeah this <word I am not allowed to say> me off a bit too. I hate this "we're all friends here in the Allience because the new girl doesn't want to step on established toes", because she so does. Personally, I indertict and destroy any Mahon ship I encounter and will work against our "friendly neighbour", I don't care about those "agreements".

I toyed with the idea of leaving and joining someone else, like Delaine. But I have to be honest with myself that even if I am annoyed with the pledges her bonuses are still the most in-line with what I like to do in the game and I do like the lore she was given. So, I'll just take her little lore blurb at my own face value and just go about my own business doing as I will.

Same. Plus I just reached rank 100 and don't want to forfeit that sweet mining bonus.

Well, players want agency, and crap like that happens when you give it to them.

 

[die_volker]

Opposing something often means you are pro something that has different outcomes from the thing you oppose... So, with a slight change in perspective and not taking all words at face value, we can definitely say she stands for something.
For me, the heaviest thing for me was the support of the former Galactic Cooperative. It gives legitimacy to her as she adheres to the principles of independence and self-governance.
Seeing EM taking the rains and flaunting the Alliance as a superpower is disturbing and I am against that ...so pro NK.
I've chosen NK also for how its bonuses align with my time spent in the void, and although it happened more often to get smashed by the good fighters of EM, I claimed mine and I am proud to try my luck every time I see one.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I guess she's the 'true libertarian' Power? It'd be interesting to have some galnet events where she actively refuses to help some people under her control because to do so would require collaborative effort which she is ethically opposed to.

She's not at all opposed to collaboration - the Alliance needs to mean something more than its members all being completely independent systems would be, she doesn't want to abolish it entirely - but it should specifically be voluntary collaboration for mutual benefit, not centralised top-down control. Something like a framework of multiple Alliance treaties, most of which any Alliance system could opt into or out of as its population chose, for example.

You saying Antal and The King are.....not normal?

In the sense that there is a galactic consensus at the senior levels that superpowers rule humanity and the only details which matter are exactly which superpower controls which area and exactly which politician gets to lead which one, and who gets to sell guns to them all.

Neither Antal nor Delaine go along with that - Antal by trying to set up a whole new social system isolated from the existing one, and Delaine by wanting to strip away all the polite illusions from the existing one.

Yeah this <word I am not allowed to say> me off a bit too. I hate this "we're all friends here in the Allience because the new girl doesn't want to step on established toes", because she so does

I'd be far more irritated by this if there was any point to undermining anyone at all, of course The groups who just go around peacefully expanding and not treading on anyone's toes kind of have a point right now.

Of course the Federation and Empire have much the same problem, if not more so. Feeding out the distinctiveness between the Power's stances at a rate of a Galnet paragraph every six months is tricky. It's not my area, but I'd be hard-pressed to come up with e.g. "Patreus would support this but Torval would oppose it" policy suggestions for the Empire, even though they both represent obviously distinct lines of Imperial thought. Similarly while Winters and Archer do have several well-publicised differences it's certainly believable that they'd agree very strongly on "but the Empire is obviously worse than that".

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I'd be far more irritated by this if there was any point to undermining anyone at all, of course The groups who just go around peacefully expanding and not treading on anyone's toes kind of have a point right now.

Yeah I still find it ass. Player organizations these days are far to cushy and conflict averse .

 

[rootsrat]

I'd love if the Power leader were more fleshed out in general. More galnet statements, interviews, opinions of the current situation etc.

Let us know they're actually alive every now and then.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I'd love if the Power leader were more fleshed out in general. More galnet statements, interviews, opinions of the current situation etc.

Let us know they're actually alive every now and then.

well sometimes the game doesn't even know if the game characters are alive or not. I swear there was some Fed lady AWOL for a long time and misteriously reappeared....

 

[Rubbernuke]

I'd love if the Power leader were more fleshed out in general. More galnet statements, interviews, opinions of the current situation etc.

Let us know they're actually alive every now and then.

If Power leaders were like engineers and used the faction rep tech you could have portraits that got happy, sad etc based on performance of that cycle / events in Galnet.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

well sometimes the game doesn't even know if the game characters are alive or not

There was certainly a point during the "the Emperor has been mysteriously quiet for a while" storyline (because she'd been kidnapped and stuffed in a stasis pod) where Hudson, Mahon and LYR were also being spoken for by their deputies to the point where "maybe they've enacted the Dynasty Project and all left in a hurry" was a plausible explanation.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

There was certainly a point during the "the Emperor has been mysteriously quiet for a while" storyline (because she'd been kidnapped and stuffed in a stasis pod) where Hudson, Mahon and LYR were also being spoken for by their deputies to the point where "maybe they've enacted the Dynasty Project and all left in a hurry" was a plausible explanation.

Sometimes the game just needs to do a Bobby Ewing

 

[CMDR_Haloran_Raas]

I joined because she was against corporatism, standing vocally against Mahon kissing Sirius' ass.

Annoyingly, the organized PP group on discord seems to disregard her supplied lore blurb and they basically treat her like "Little Mahon" and "we're all buddies" with coordinated system handoffs between the two, and it basically just seems the Mahon players who had PMFs in systems that she inherited joined her, and, well, it may as well have been that nothing even changed. The only nearby faction we "officially" have "free reign" to "beat up on" is Winters for whatever stupid reason.

I toyed with the idea of leaving and joining someone else, like Delaine. But I have to be honest with myself that even if I am annoyed with the pledges her bonuses are still the most in-line with what I like to do in the game and I do like the lore she was given. So, I'll just take her little lore blurb at my own face value and just go about my own business doing as I will.

Well... clearly I'm biased here LOL (and I don't want to put words in Elite Kaine's mouth) but I think the buddy-buddy vibe was definitely a thing when the organised discord was first setup. That was more to do with the fact that the CMDR who volunteered to set it up is Alioth Council (Mahon coord). He's since stepped away, as have the vast majority of the original Kaine leadership group. Winters was certainly a focus for those guys back then. Not so much anymore.

Our squadron the Swords of Makhai now work closely with the 'new' Leadership Group over at EK (which has been awesome!) and I'm privileged to have a seat at the table for the kind of negotiations you mention - I can honestly say that in the last 4 months there has been ONE system handover to my knowledge. That was to do with the Silverbacks BGS claim and their wishes to have one of their systems Mahon, not Kaine.

Anyway, I can see how perceptions can stick like mud sometimes and I hope I'm not being too critical of your observations. Just my perspective.

We are cordial with the Mahon coords sure - but we don't run joint ops with them (not like the FUC). Would we undermine one of their systems? Probably not without diplomacy - but to be fair we'd probably extend that courtesy to any power.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Well... clearly I'm biased here LOL (and I don't want to put words in Elite Kaine's mouth) but I think the buddy-buddy vibe was definitely a thing when the organised discord was first setup. That was more to do with the fact that the CMDR who volunteered to set it up is Alioth Council (Mahon coord). He's since stepped away, as have the vast majority of the original Kaine leadership group. Winters was certainly a focus for those guys back then. Not so much anymore.

Our squadron the Swords of Makhai now work closely with the 'new' Leadership Group over at EK (which has been awesome!) and I'm privileged to have a seat at the table for the kind of negotiations you mention - I can honestly say that in the last 4 months there has been ONE system handover to my knowledge. That was to do with the Silverbacks BGS claim and their wishes to have one of their systems Mahon, not Kaine.

Anyway, I can see how perceptions can stick like mud sometimes and I hope I'm not being too critical of your observations. Just my perspective.

We are cordial with the Mahon coords sure - but we don't run joint ops with them (not like the FUC). Would we undermine one of their systems? Probably not without diplomacy - but to be fair we'd probably extend that courtesy to any power.

good to hear. Obviously you can see how a well can be poisoned for a long time .

 

[zimms]

I'd love if the Power leader were more fleshed out in general. More galnet statements, interviews, opinions of the current situation etc.

Let us know they're actually alive every now and then.

But be careful what you wish for. If the alternative is becoming a comically evil cartoon villain, keeping your mouth shut maybe isn't that bad after all.