Cargo buff announced (+35% any ship Class 5 & 6)

[kofeyh]

So back to the cargo racks themselves... If these are only unicorn CG rewards then I guess we'll be forever juggling them between our max trade ships and optimizing our other multi/special-purpose ships. So it won't be a fleet-wide buff.

That's generally how the pre-engineered modules tend to work for CG rewards.

Bit of a head-scratcher FD's intent with this... The PC2 has new special Mk II racks and special slots for them, so they created an all new rack category just for the +50% upsize on an ARX release. But then they quickly add these apparently limited-edition buffed Mk I's for any ships. I don't get it

Why is it a head-scratcher? Frontier designs stuff weeks and months in advance. On the contrary, this is a very logical and good move from Frontier. Everyone who takes part in the CG can benefit from a bit of a cargo uplift, for any ship with size 5 or 6 racks on offer.

I think maybe reading a lot more into what, to me, seems as simple as offering players a useful module. Is that not maybe the point?

 

[Tifu]

By my math the +35% adds an extra 88 t to Panther Clippers, maxing it to 1326 t. Maybe higher if engineering below Class 5 is added later (but I wonder about diminishing returns on engineering effort for smaller classes).

Very happy with this development. The minimum I expected the Panther MK2 to have was 1300 tons max cargo - that was my red line.

Now I have to consider getting one

 

[RadiKyle]

Why is it a head-scratcher? Frontier designs stuff weeks and months in advance. On the contrary, this is a very logical and good move from Frontier. Everyone who takes part in the CG can benefit from a bit of a cargo uplift, for any ship with size 5 or 6 racks on offer.

Ok let me try rephrase... I'm asking why create 2 different new systems to increase cargo rack capacity, and release them within weeks of each other? (The Mk II system vs engineered Mk I system.) Or maybe the better question is how not why, since there may not be a why and it just unfolded that way. It's that backstory that I'm curious about.

 

[kofeyh]

Ok let me try rephrase... I'm asking why create 2 different new systems to increase cargo rack capacity, and release them within weeks of each other? (The Mk II system vs engineered Mk I system.) Or maybe the better question is how not why, since there may not be a why and it just unfolded that way. It's that backstory that I'm curious about.

Unless you've been under a rock, Frontier has received considerable feedback about the amount of cargo it takes for Colonisation. Between the feedback on that, and the capacity of the Panther Clipper, maybe, just maybe the developer thought it might help respond to that?

The (apparent) reason the PC has the specialised cargo racks, is it reduces how many slots it needs, allowing it to both carry a goodly amount of cargo, without having eleventy module slots.

And so now the developer offers a new CG reward that helps increase cargo capacity that can benefit the rest of the ships, not just one. Me? I think it's brilliant.

As a tangent, not having a go, it just genuinely weirds me out when the developer offers a quality of life improvement, and people go scratching for hidden meaning and fixate on some conspiracy theory.

 

[Nidoboros]

What's to get? They're killing 2 birds with one stone:

1. Driving engagement because they know people will want these, therefore they will be playing the game. A nice month-long boost for metrics.
2. Squashing cries about "PCM2 increased capacity cargo racks are p2w" by offering increased capacity cargo racks for free to the masses.

2a. Allowing the people who paid for PCM2 to win the CG because they can haul more, thus proving that it was p2w all along

 

[kofeyh]

2a. Allowing the people who paid for PCM2 to win the CG because they can haul more, thus proving that it was p2w all along

Apart from credits, what does winning mean, exactly? 1 ton of a CG commodity unlocks 2 of the cargo racks.

 

[Stealthie]

Although that may be the intent (to spawn more PC ARX buys) I think there's still a large numbers of players that try a CG in their Hauler or whatever and then go do something else instead. They're not grinding hours in 700t+ cargo ships. So the curve has a very long tail with the bottom 25% delivering very little compared to the rest.

Hence, the other part of my post.

The way these type of CGs usually go, your best bet is probably to deliver a heap of stuff, get into the top 25% and then see what happens.
If you drop down into the 50% or 75% group, you know it's time to dive back in.

Speaking as somebody who has, at times, found myself in the top 10 of a CG, there definitely IS a gigantic gulf between the top 10 and top 25% and then another huge gulf between the 25% and the 50%.

Dunno if there's any public information about who did what in CGs (on Inara, perhaps?) but it seems like there are defeinitely some "CG specialists" out there and, honestly, I dunno how they find the time to make the contributions they need to get into the top 10.
Top 25% is usually a more realistic goal and, in my experience, once you get into the top 25% and then make a handful of additional contributions, you'll probably stay in the top 25%.

As you say, there's probably a lot people who just do CGs "casually", or insist on using a Cobra or Keelback because it's "their ship" so they're probably never going to trouble the top 25% but, OTOH, the launch of the PC2 means there's a lot of people desperate to take their shiny new uber-hauler out for a test-drive.
Those people could make it quite a bit harder to score a solid top 75% spot.

The other thing is, the Credit-reward for a CG doesn't mean a lot... unless there's a big uptake for a CG (see previous point) and then, once it gets to the higher tiers, people will start to realise that a good result in the CG could actually pay for their PC2, or it's modules.
Given that those people have the ideal weapon for a hauling CG and the incentive to use it, there might be more competition at the top end, which'll have the knock-on effect of stretching all the other ranks too.

 

[Rat Catcher]

And that is nice, but credits are not an exclusive CG reward. You quoted just that phrase but the point was towards adding more reasons to play a CG, not removing them.

I quoted in context, rather than attempted to twist part of a phrase just for giggles.

ETA: But I agree, for those who have an excess of credits, a CG without another hook could feel pointless.

 

[Mr Lindsay]

Well... so much for me thinking they wouldn't do this, but given the number of people asking for arbitrary cargo increases I guess they felt the need to do something, and Pre-Engineered racks is it.

 

[Bob McBobblehead]

An extra 66t is not much, but it will put my PCmk2 just over the 1200t psychological mark. 1200t just feels better than 1152t.

 

[Kzak]

I'll start with 10 000 tons delivered, and see if I can keep the double rewards with that delivery amount. Will haul more if needed.

 

[Mr Lindsay]

2a. Allowing the people who paid for PCM2 to win the CG because they can haul more, thus proving that it was p2w all along

With pretty much any CG I can think of the meaningful factor is always time-spent, not the ship being used.

Sure, if you want to hit one of those Top 10 spots then you're probably going to have to sink in a load of time AND use whatever the Build-Meta is for that CG. However, for most folks that are just trying to keep pace, that 30+% extra contribution can be made up for just by playing the game (which is a thing you're supposed to enjoy doing) for another 30 minutes or so.

Nobody that drops below the 75% cut will have done so because they didn't have a Panther Clipper.

 

[Titler]

25% of people, by design, wont get any extra cargo at all. This is clearly just a way to drive more sales of the Clipper now by pushing FOMO that it'll be you that won't.

Standing on principle this leaves a foul taste in my mouth; I personally will get above 75%, but my sympathies are with those who will not. Even if they add cargo engineering later (they may, the game is in Burn mode now, further imbalancing the value on in game activities whilst burning players for as much Arx spending as they can, so another engineering grind would make sense) once this cat is out of the bag, it can't be put back in. Make engineering surpass these rewards and people who did the CG grind will howl their efforts have been devalued; leave them superior, and you continue to devalue those who couldn't beat the 75% cut off or weren't even online when the CG inevitably ends early.

Elitism back in the 8/16 bit days, when it was just you against an NPC universe, was fun. Continuing to enforce gated content to drive dark pattern sales techniques today is immoral, even if it's capitalistically successful. For myself, bullocks to whether my CG rewards are devalued, give everyone else the chance to engineer equivalents now, if we must do this.

 

[Mr Lindsay]

25% of people, by design, wont get any extra cargo at all. This is clearly just a way to drive more sales of the Clipper now by pushing FOMO that it'll be you that won't.

If you deliver 1 tonne, you get 1x Size 5 and 1x Size 6 rack. 100% of contributors get extra cargo racks. 75% get twice the cargo racks.

EDIT: I expect it to still go up as the numbers won't settle down until after the weekend when more players have logged in to play, but currently 2 trips in a Type-9 would get you into the Top 75% with room to spare. No-one that has "FOMO" needs to buy a Panther to get in the Top 75%.

 

[Vardaugas]

Two pairs of those look to be fitting quite snugly into my trade Python. Makes up for being displaced by the Type-8 as medium pad transport. 258t should do nicely for those transport missions.

 

[kofeyh]

25% of people, by design, wont get any extra cargo at all. This is clearly just a way to drive more sales of the Clipper now by pushing FOMO that it'll be you that won't.

What does this mean? What extra cargo? Some people will have a several hours for the week, some will have several hours available a day. So is that fair?

Some don't have carriers, many do. What about people who start playing after the CG ends? A percentage of people won't even bother with the CG. They're out exploring. What about them? The list goes on and on. It's so hard to keep up with whatever line's been crossed, this time.

I am sure I can think of half-a-dozen more ways the Panther Clipper existing doesn't make the situation unique. We've had CGs on and off for 10 years, with a few of them offering modules. What did people do to deliver cargo in previous CGs, use a hessian sack?

Arx store is a choice; panther clipper is NOT required for this CG. Indeed it's offering modules that can help improve every other ship.

 

[Doctor Dread]

Arx store is a choice; panther clipper is NOT required for this CG. Indeed it's offering modules that can help improve every other ship.

A player can get one set of boxes in five minutes, with a Sidewinder carrying 1 tone of Aluminium or Steel, and boost their T-8 or Python just nicely. It's fine by me.

Who wants two sets, be prepared to haul and haul and ha... no thank you, not so important. My Panthers and a carrier are already building worlds with what they have.

 

[Nidoboros]

Apart from credits, what does winning mean, exactly? 1 ton of a CG commodity unlocks 2 of the cargo racks.

Nobody that drops below the 75% cut will have done so because they didn't have a Panther Clipper.

Sure, but because of the cargo difference being gated behind a pay wall at the moment, that means that they can prevent the dip from happening with fewer trips/less time, because they were willing to pay to hit the threshold ('win').

As you say, there's probably a lot people who just do CGs "casually", or insist on using a Cobra or Keelback because it's "their ship" so they're probably never going to trouble the top 25% but, OTOH, the launch of the PC2 means there's a lot of people desperate to take their shiny new uber-hauler out for a test-drive.
Those people could make it quite a bit harder to score a solid top 75% spot.

Basically this. There are people who choose to use the Cobra or Keelback when the Type 9 is there, ready to help the, Haul. I'm not talking about them.

Ultimately, I'm talking about continuing to move the goalposts with Arx, from 'just cosmetic' to 'oh its just a time saver so you don't have to engineer everything yourself' to the latest 'you pay cash money and get a tangible advantage'.

 

[kofeyh]

A player can get one set of boxes in five minutes, with a Sidewinder carrying 1 tone of Aluminium or Steel, and boost their T-8 or Python just nicely. It's fine by me.

Who wants two sets, be prepared to haul and haul and ha... no thank you, not so important. My Panthers and a carrier are already building worlds with what they have.

Indeed.

 

[kofeyh]

Sure, but because of the cargo difference being gated behind a pay wall at the moment, that means that they can prevent the dip from happening with fewer trips/less time, because they were willing to pay to hit the threshold ('win').

Not this argument again. Time is the factor. The ship might help, but the biggest factor is time. It is simple math. A person with a type-9 who has 15-20 hours available over the next week, is going to beat a person with a Panther Clipper who has 10 hours.

I’ve already had one person try to pretend time isn’t a factor, I’m not being suckered into another debate around this.

Basically this. There are people who choose to use the Cobra or Keelback when the Type 9 is there, ready to help the, Haul. I'm not talking about them.

Ultimately, I'm talking about continuing to move the goalposts with Arx, from 'just cosmetic' to 'oh its just a time saver so you don't have to engineer everything yourself' to the latest 'you pay cash money and get a tangible advantage'.

The tangible advantage is less than 40% for a ship that was always going to be a large trader, and is dwarfed by how much time someone has to invest.

I am not a fan of Frontier selling ships in the Arx store, but this ongoing narrative that somehow, one of the bigger time sink games available, known for its grindy nature is suddenly only influenced by a single ship in the Arx store, and we have to suspend belief by ignoring other factors, makes that a very weak argument.

Will the PC help? Sure. Is it required? No. Time is the primary currency of Elite, everything else comes second. To ignore that (and other factors) does not lend credibility.