Elite Dangerous | System Colonisation Beta Details & Feedback

[VVVVVV]

Sharing feedback on Trilablazers update. Because this seems to be the place for it.

I play solo, in VR, stopped playing last year, returned to check out system colonization. Currently have two "toy systems" with scores of 33 (10+ buildings, bonus unlocked) and 10, and in the first time I started with coriolis which I managed to build, without a carrier in 4 days.

Overall:

Hauling stuff between outposts, space platforms (space construction yard) mega ships is fun, and more interesting than dealing with mailslot stations and their traffic/queues. Would be nice to see more open landing pads in space in general. So when I was hauling stuff between Trailblazer and target it was interesting....

But the amount of hauling involved is crazy. I know there are people who built orbis solo, or that there's a guy on steam who has 5 accounts, 2 carriers and many systems with multiple coriolis stations each, and I know that this sort of hauling is okay for some people. Those people are very dedicated players.

The system is brutal for less dedicated or occasional interest player. Solo Coriolis build was something like 10-12 hours of space trucking and it was going from point A to point B, in repetitive fashion, while occasionally dodging interdictions. It feels like digging a pool with a toothpick. That's in type-9. I think it might be best to spend player's time on something else. Or at least provide an alternative path.

in terms of space trucking, fun + amount of trucking(assumes single jump and trailblazer in next system) seem to go like this:
4 round trips --> quick/fun build.
8 round trips --> okay
12 round trips --> things begin to get tedious.
20-30 --> patience test.
50-90 --> torture.
100+ --> not worth trying solo.

In my case a single roundtrip seemed to be in ballpark of 6..10 minutes.

Placing settlements --> fun. Personally hauling stuff --> less fun if done too much. As things stand now, for "less dedicated" player, the game badly needs some sort of hired help. Either in-game ability to hire another players, or a way for NPCs to assist player.

Related proposals can be found here:

L outposts: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/l-outposts-and-stations-without-mail-slot.639165/

Help from NPCs: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/colonization-help-from-npc.639656/

Player missions: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/player-issued-missions.639597/

 

[Capt. Hook]

I've mentioned before that there should be an in game testing to try out system builds before committing considerable personal time to an enterprise without truly knowing the outcome. It would be a separate option below the architects view - essentially part of the architects remit.

 

[VVVVVV]

Sharing feedback on Trilablazers update. Because this seems to be the place for it.

Few more things:

• When building stations it is not possible to see in advance what the station is going to produce.
• This is especially complicated in case of ports/outposts. The assumption would be that a production settlement will funnel its goods to the port, but that doesn't look like the case. The port has much richer selection, based on economy type.
• There are some errors in settlements, like several of them report that maximum pad is M, but in reality it is L.
• Likewise for "morphing" stations with colony type it would be great to preview in advance what would they become.
• There isn't a single at a glance view that would list what wares are produced/consumed by which stations. Should be a table-like view somewhere.
• I've not found system stats. You can hover over individual stations and see how they affect security/etc, but the total doesn't seem to be displayed anywhere.
• From the construction yards interface it is not possible to see where goods are sold (like it is the case on stations)
• The codex could use more information on wares in general. Ideally there should be a list of all wares and their descriptions, in the form they're discovered on stations. Likewise there should be entries for all economy types and list of goods they produce. See Atelier games for an example of this could be done.
• The current system does not seem to reward self-sufficiency. I.e. a reasonable idea would be to aim for self-sufficiency and build a system that produces its own food and own materials. You could plop farms and industries (provided there's enough space), but that results in nothing. It is not recognized. Ideally would be great to have in-system trade routes, but that's probably a tall request.
• Initially I assumed that weak economy links would eventually be able to change main station economy type, but that does not seem to be thecase. In my first system Coriolis is built over non-landable planet, and is apparently stuck in Industrial/Refinery. If there's an empty slot (there probably isn't), I could probably try to push it out of this economy, but without a preview this would be incredibly unpredictable thing.
• Would be great to have a way to scrap unfinished constructions. Even with total material loss.

That's the rough idea of it.

Also on related note, it would be great if it was possible to connect nearby settlements with roads and have something drive along the roads. And, of course, there's still no VR support for odyssey, so once you're done building you can't even walk around the area properly. Only fly in a drone which has short range. If someone at least allowed use of menus while camera suite is active (which would allow 3rd person vr gameplay), that would've been grand.

 

[Michael Ryan]

Does Goverment Installation affect system anyhow expept stats? (Nothing with BGS changes or gov type?)

 

[Jumpin' Jack Flash]

Hi

Few more things:

• There are some errors in settlements, like several of them report that maximum pad is M, but in reality it is L.

That's interesting, I'm taking your word for it but if true then this is quite a concern. It might sway some players in respect of building a particular settlement.
A large landing pad to my way of thinking is a much more useful feature item than a medium one.

Jack

 

[VVVVVV]

Hi



That's interesting, I'm taking your word for it but if true then this is quite a concern. It might sway some players in respect of building a particular settlement.
A large landing pad to my way of thinking is a much more useful feature item than a medium one.

Jack

I'm fairly sure research Bio T2 L (Chronos), Military Installation T2 L (Minerva) on settlement placement screen report "maximum pad size: medium". In reality you can land Type-9 on both. They're cheaper to build than Surface Outpost, but do not accept strong links. Before the current CG, builinding them was fairly easy via trailblazer, now trailblazers seem to be permanently low on everything.

There's a document "Colonization Construction v3 (By DaftMav)" which you can find here:

Release - V3 of the Colonization construction spreadsheet is now available!

I have finally finished working on v3 of my Colonization construction spreadsheet. Lots of changes and improvements so it's a new spreadsheet: Use this link to 'make a copy' of the spreadsheet. (Note: If the spreadsheet is unavailable that means I'm updating it to a new version and it'll be...

forums.frontier.co.uk

It lists correct pad sizes. Amount of resources, however, you'd need to verify. As I had situation where I was off by a few items.

 

[VVVVVV]

And one more thing. I think this amount of hauling is actually on unsafe level. Meaning it wouldn't surprise me at all, for example, if someone tried to build Orbis (250+ round trips in type 9) in one sitting and died in the process from a heart attack or a similar health issue. I'm not joking and not exaggerating.

The issue here is that the reward of seeing finished settlement is sufficient to motivate the player to keep going. While most people will probably drop from exhaustion early, specifically stubborn individuals which obviously exist among the gamers can continue going beyond body's safety limit through willpower. All in order to rush it. I'm partly speaking from experience, because I did finish couple of projects quickly and I'm not exactly feeling great after that.

I highly recommend to fdev to dial it down somehow or to implement some sort of assistance. Like hiring NPCs as mentioned before. The idea would be to ensure the activity should be broken into manageable chunks with stop points. 8-12 roundtrips is a manageable chunk, in my opinion.

If that matters, I have several hundred hours in Elite, majority of them in VR, a fleet carrier and about 9 billion in assets total. Meaning I've not started playing this yesterday.

 

[DjVortex]

There are some players who are starting a surface construction site and deliberately leaving it unfinished for aesthetic purposes. In other words, the construction site itself is what they actually want, rather than the finished settlement, perhaps because it looks cool on that terrain, or other reasons.

I think that to support this, and to give players more choice, there should be a setting for each construction site whether other players can contribute to it or not. (It would also somewhat alleviate the problem of system sniping.)

 

[aRJay]

There are some players who are starting a surface construction site and deliberately leaving it unfinished for aesthetic purposes. In other words, the construction site itself is what they actually want, rather than the finished settlement, perhaps because it looks cool on that terrain, or other reasons.

I think that to support this, and to give players more choice, there should be a setting for each construction site whether other players can contribute to it or not. (It would also somewhat alleviate the problem of system sniping.)

While I support that idea for non primary constructions it wouldn’t affect sniping as by the time we can build anything on a surface the primary port is finished and any sniping has been done.

 

[DjVortex]

While I support that idea for non primary constructions it wouldn’t affect sniping as by the time we can build anything on a surface the primary port is finished and any sniping has been done.

Oh, yeah. I don't know what I was thinking. Scratch that part.

 

[aRJay]

Oh, yeah. I don't know what I was thinking. Scratch that part.

There was so much talk about sniping and how to avoid it that it got stuck in our heads.

I kept catching myself thinking about how to set up the last hauls to my primary port to avoid snipes then having to remind myself that I wasn’t building towards anywhere and haven’t even looked if there are other systems accessible from where I was building.

 

[Joe Cool]

There was so much talk about sniping and how to avoid it that it got stuck in our heads.

Spoiler: You choose to believe it or not ;)

"Snixtalgia" (noun)
/snɪkˈstæl.dʒə/

The lingering anxiety or obsessive fixation on being sniped from an opportunity (like loot, kill, or auction win) in a game, persisting irrationally even when no such threat currently exists.

 

[Kira Goto]

I was eyeing a system with two water worlds in a binary orbit that hadn’t been taken near the Veil West nebula until some time yesterday (somehow). But another opportunist arrived while I was busy setting up a large port elsewhere (as a first port), fortunate for them. Can’t have it all so I’m not particularly mad, the planning simply wasn’t ideal on my part because I wanted to throw down a large port around one of said WW where the primary port was located, as well. But could’ve just taken the hit with an outpost and followed up later.

Anyway… not an actual case of it, and I think with the first claiming rush settled, “sniping” has become significantly less of an issue as either people realized how much hauling colonization is, or they simply found ‘good enough’ somewhere else already. Though I still intend to play “safe” for what I am planning to get next, also near said nebula.

Will this situation change upon exiting beta? Perhaps, but it remains that it isn’t so much of an issue right now if I’m seeing it correctly. And the various proposed solutions all have their own drawbacks…

 

[Capt. Hook]

I still maintain that a fully fledged architect role would allow for station/installation modification/upgrade/decommission and or in system movement. This would let commanders work more fruitfully in their existing systems claimed and less inclined to abandon systems and move on

 

[sakata_baba]

When building stations it is not possible to see in advance what the station is going to produce.

you can't have that as it changes due to other factors, like future stations. it also changes due to system states.

Likewise for "morphing" stations with colony type it would be great to preview in advance what would they become.

see above. colony stations adopt local body influence on their economy but it is modified by outposts, hubs, settlements and stations influencing it via strong and weak links. it is all very detailed in trailblazer updates and can be easily calculated.

The current system does not seem to reward self-sufficiency. I.e. a reasonable idea would be to aim for self-sufficiency and build a system that produces its own food and own materials. You could plop farms and industries (provided there's enough space), but that results in nothing. It is not recognized. Ideally would be great to have in-system trade routes, but that's probably a tall request.

you have that. it is shown by, for example, extraction station filling in demand in refinery station in the same system. supply of the extraction and demand in refinery reduce in size (or outright disappear) if you have them in system affecting each other significantly (strong links).

Initially I assumed that weak economy links would eventually be able to change main station economy type, but that does not seem to be thecase. In my first system Coriolis is built over non-landable planet, and is apparently stuck in Industrial/Refinery. If there's an empty slot (there probably isn't), I could probably try to push it out of this economy, but without a preview this would be incredibly unpredictable thing.

they can, you just need a ton of them. try in a system with 60+ slots and you will be able to do it easily. remember that body feature influence is extremely strong. you need 20 weak links to match just one feature. planning is paramount. if you go into this thinking "oh, look, a nice system. i can build anything i want there." you will be disappointed. match your expectations to the system in question.
and don't forget that you have player groups that will haul for your construction, they started appearing as soon as colonization started. you just need to find, contact and talk to them yourselves. game is not your middleman.
npc's make bgs static. that is the point of the game. only us, cmdr's, are the true movers in the universe. that is the base idea of the game. don't expect npc's to do your bidding. you will never get that. without players, the entire game will stabilize very fast into a status quo and remain "solidified" ad infinitum. rtfm, page 26.

i know how hard it can be, i started with apollo orbis. barely managed to finish it. then i cooperated to claim and take over a 30ly minibubble with other players. we are building complementary economies with careful planning so once we finish those, they will be able to have great bgs synergy. but we are doing it very slowly because we know we can't make mistakes. planning is most of the fun for us. seeing it work out exactly as we planned will be the payoff.
then, new project.

 

[VVVVVV]

you can't have that as it changes due to other factors, like

I'm obviously talking about "moment of placement".

player groups that will haul for your construction,

I've not found them. There are threads on steam with people looking for assistance and finding none. Also, such thing should work in-game without reddit and discord. See:

Player issued missions.

It would be great if a player could issue following missions for other players through in-game interface: Load carrier. Unload carrier. Deliver goods to construction site. Those could be treated like community goals (meaning many people can participate) and could appear at some larger hub...

forums.frontier.co.uk

only us, cmdr's, are the true movers in the universe.

That does not match my experience.

In my opinion it is unreasonable to expect player cooperation and clans in a modern game. Currently older gamers prefer solo play. So it would be reasonable to support it. Hence the request for NPCs. The whole idea of "online friends" seem to be very old-school. Right from the 1990s.

 

[sakata_baba]

I've not found them.

try this, it's just one of dozen groups i've found. https://discord.com/invite/MKuUWE8UwA

That does not match my experience.

i don't know what to tell you. that's how the game is made and it's been like that from the start and it will not change in the future. don't expect it.

I'm obviously talking about "moment of placement".

at moment of placement in empty system it will be zero. as soon as population starts to come, it will change. system stats will influence it. other system economies in range for bgs will influence it also. it's all very fluid, they can't give you an answer. it needs to be recalculated all the time and that is what bgs tick is for. and the server cycle for larger things.
if they give you some approximation and it becomes obsolete in couple of hours because something else changes, will you be angry because they gave you wrong numbers? or will you accept you can't predict the future and using current data is unviable if input is variable or empty.

edit:
i forgot to touch on one more thing. half of us are gamers since the 80s. game catering to "old-school" is on par.

 

[PilotB]

at moment of placement in empty system it will be zero

At the moment of placement it will be body influence and the game should be displaying the body breakdown, not colony since you never get colony. Showing colony made sense when the links actually mattered. They no longer do. The UI is outdated and misleading. You can scrounge the info up through the docs and by being in the system and using a few menus. This isn't catering to old school it's just a UI that hasn't been updated after the rules changed. Like the Industrial and High tech ports. Colony ports should now just show you the body economy you're going to get since you can build remotely but half the important information cannot be viewed remotely. All the required information to calculate it is available and clearly they can calcuate it since they apply it once you finish the build.

This isn't catering to old school. It's just an incomplete feature.

 

[sakata_baba]

you didn't notice how supply and demand change over time due to population change and bgs propagation? it is not applied completely immediately and takes time to be calculated.
and that "old-school" reference was for something completely different.

colonization is still in beta. did you expect it to be a complete feature?

 

[VVVVVV]

try this, it's just one of dozen groups i've

"without reddit and discord" is specified for a good reason.

i don't know what to tell you. that's how

Not telling anything and walking by is an option. Why are you even arguing with feedback? In the first this is not "how this game was made" but your opinion on it. And I see things very differently.

Also, dealing with social dynamics of another small discord community while trying to get something built is exact opposite of fun.

at moment of placement in empty system it will be zero.

Economy is decided the second something like coriolis is placed, and it is affected by underlying body type. This is specified here:

Release - V3 of the Colonization construction spreadsheet is now available!

I have finally finished working on v3 of my Colonization construction spreadsheet. Lots of changes and improvements so it's a new spreadsheet: Use this link to 'make a copy' of the spreadsheet. (Note: If the spreadsheet is unavailable that means I'm updating it to a new version and it'll be...

forums.frontier.co.uk

However on placement screen effects of the body type is not shown in advance. That's what the feedback is about.

you didn't notice how

I'm not interested and that'll be the end of discussion with you. I've put effort to make the list clear, if that was not enough, I can't help you.