The way I see it the problem isn't caused by new players who wonder about missing or broken features or have to ask questions that the game should answer via tutorials and tool tips by now. The problem is rather the "Elite" that has invested so much time and money that they ignore every issue the game has and attack or ridicule everyone who dares to post about it.
The more people, the more toxic it gets
- Thread starter Commander SQQUARE
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This. Exactly.
Maybe these elitists are blinded by their elitism and need to fall off their ivory pedestal to see reality: your precious gem of a game will never be finished without the noobs buying in, much of which won't happen if you continue with the nose-in-the-air attitude.
There's some who do that, true. They shouldn't do it, no question about it.
But the vast majority is really trying to help, telling people how to fix bugs and issues, how the game works, etc. - It's only when the poster comes across as rude, self-entitled, completely impatient or disrespectful that he's not going to get much help, and rightfully so.
There are so many threads where pages upon pages of replies are helpful, like when someone can't dock because of the rotated pad bug. That bug needs to be fixed, sure, and the poster is perfectly right to ask about it. But telling the forum that supercruise should be ditched, or docking should be done with a hotkey, there's really no response other than "this is not the game you're looking for".
"Where do you get off saying something like this yet thinking the elitist attitude against people who aren't "veterans" is okay? It's just as toxic, probably worse."---
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i never played an elite game before, am 17, and im average at flying. im just using my mind when im playing. learned all the features in an hour lol. anyway what im against is stupidity and ignorance.
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"It's fair to say this game has a steep learning curve if you've never played, and the elitist attitude, "you're too stupid to get it so don't play" only serves to make it worse"---
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lolno. if you're thinking about what you are doing, this game doesnt have a steep learning curve at all. something like arma or counter strike does. not this. easy to learn, hard to master. also we've got tutorials, for anyone that needs those.(which is absolutely fine)
also your logic of "the more elitist the more toxic" actually if you look at it logically the more people with similar knowledge/opinions/skills in a group the more friendly it gets. and do not get me wrong here, im not exactly too positive about this approach, (having different opinions is a good thing) but im just showing you my logical view on your statement.
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You guys need to accept that there are all breeds of players, all levels of experience and noobs have a right to be confused - this game has little to no hand-holding to teach you to play and no manual.
What do you expect? "
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the game does have tutorials about a lot of the basics, and learning the rest is a part of the experience. but you are right about the rest, but if everything was black and white like that then this problem of toxicity wouldnt even be here now.
I'm sad to see so many people posting about how disappointed they are. Indeed all the features from the DDA won't make it, but what we have is amazing if you compare it to other released space games. As for unreleased ones... just take into account that Frontier committed to releasing the game in a reasonable time frame, which they are doing, and also that many big features will come in expansions that I'll be happy to pay for if they're as close to what's promised as the base game is.
On the plus side, the people ingame are usually very nice. And that's what matters the most to me. Also, as a rule of thumb I'm now putting any recently registered account that has never posted anything productive (whether it's criticism or not) on ignore. It works wonders! There's lots of great *critical* posts with reasoning and suggestions for improvements, not just praise mind you. Put the trolls on ignore and they're gone. There's plenty of forum accounts that are actively engaged in trying to paint the game in a bad light, justified or not. And I'd rather read genuine criticisms that can help make things better rather than posts from people who seem to smell a chance to hurt ED.
I wish I was just paranoid
I have to agree. I frequent political discussion forums and you can spot astro-turfers a mile off i.e. freshly registered but very recognisable scripts.
I was thinking this a few weeks back on here; not sure who'd stand to benefit. Draw a list I guess!
The OP themselves was rude and unhelpful.
Did you block them aswell or did you let it slide because they are on your side of the fence?
If someone asks for docking quicktime events or whatever, tell them it's not Wingcommander, CoD has nothing to do with this genre and the term is only brought up to discredit anyone that criticizes a feature.
Sorry Jumping in here, but.. I don't see anything elitist about the post you quoted, If anything, He makes a fair point.
The forum of late has been filled with nothing but angst. Some for the right reasons but mostly for all the wrong. I have never seen a community fly from the fair and constructive spectrum to the downright spew some of the members are posting now.
Sadly people that do need our help in starting the game not only are drowned out by these threads, But they are reading them too, Being influenced by people that are only here to make trouble at the end of the day.
I'm not going to get into the whole refund experience but they should have looked at both sides of the road before crossing at a blind turn or better still, Walked further down that road (Think timeline) before they committed.
Now The meaty part of why I actually wanted to reply,
Its always going to be somewhat of an issue on a developers part of decided how much handholding do you want your product to give a new and aspiring player. In many aspects it can become a make or break feature. There are plenty of games on the market today that have a serious problem handholding the player to a point where they do not feel they have to think or react to new situations. It effectively becomes a safe haven. (World of Warcraft/League of Legends springs to mind effectively here)
On the other hand games such as Dark souls, Eve and the X3 series (ones that I myself have played) have very tiny amounts of offering help to its playerbase. Everything else must be figured out and in some circumstances dire consequences and Panic situations are used to teach players for future similar problems.
At the end of the day, This is a common occurrence for any game that requires the player to think and plot his actions beforehand to come to a decision that is going to feel meaningful to them. There are always two sides that could do with the help and those that prefer to teach themselves and to the vocal community. One side is never enough.
Funnily enough, Both World of Warcraft and League of Legends originally never did offer any tutorial to handholding. Everything had to be figured out.
Theres plenty of time and plenty of features that elite has to offer. Just some require more patience then others.
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Theres probably a formula out there that calculates - number of people x more people = more complaining.
Back in alpha - few people no moaning. It made me sick the positivity 6 months ago more people, more moaning, now loads of people loads of moaning, I kind of miss the sickening positivity now
Back in alpha - few people no moaning. It made me sick the positivity
6 months ago more people, more moaning, now loads of people loads of moaning, I kind of miss the sickening positivity now oh and thanks for all the negative rep guys, that's like the most rep i've ever got in such a short time period.
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This^
It's natural that a game earlier in a beta phase will have much more leeway from the players. As release gets closer (23 days and counting) the various concerns will result in a greater volume of disgruntled forum messages. Exasperation can lead to ill-considered messages that leave a sour taste. And, yes, there's doubtless some trolls who get off on that sort of thing.
But it pales besides the Elite-ism (DYSWIDT?) I've seen in the forums over the past couple of weeks. Special-snowflakes who question other's intelligence and suitability to play a game because they've raised legitimate concerns over aspects of gameplay can be really quite destructive.
Theres probably a formula out there that calculates - number of people x more people = more complaining.
Back in alpha - few people no moaning. It made me sick the positivity
Maybe because there's something legitimately wrong with the game?
Most of us prefer to call a spade a spade. 2 months ago people on this forum did not realise how 'complete' the Beta they were actually playing was. Now they do. That's reality and that is how people react. Deal with it.
How was the OP rude in any way? Explain that to me please. Also, please don't use Schopenhauer on me.
I respectfully ask that you don't infer malfeasence where none was stated or even implied. Thanks.
Quite the contrary! COD is a prime example of quick time events. As such, because that poster asked for a quicktime event like that, I don't think COD is a bad comparison. Also why is any comparison with COD automatically a discredit? It's an amazingly successful game series, and even though their singleplayer campaigns are extremely linear I think their gunplay and the production values are extremely high. It's just a certain type of game that "guides" you through a sequence of events usually, and the singleplayer is more like an interactive movie than a challenging game. Which is, again, fine if that's what you want, and a lot of people want exactly that. There's nothing bad about that- but Elite is not like this. I wouldn't say "better" neccessarly, but certainly different.
Agreed.
Been at forums since September 2013, it were just so great, I actually enjoyed being/writing here just as I enjoyed playing (testing) ED...
Now it is so that my eyes and brains hurt.
Think it started somewhere during Beta (after I had possibly recruited several hundreds/thousands of EvE players to the game advertising/linking it there in all chats/local´s).
MorkFromOrk
Banned
If you think demanding an IQ test before being allowed to purchase the game or post on the forum is politeness then the OP was all sweetness and light
.Two months ago you weren't even registered on this forum... But yes, I for one do believe that the release date is too soon. However, I'm happy to see that things I had on my wishlist (like capship battle events and all that) have made it before release after all, and that makes me very confident for the future.
It's ok to be disappointed. But again, the tone makes the music. And no, "Deal with it" is no excuse for some of the vitriol that is being spun. "Dealing with it" is exactly what I do, by reporting and ignoring select users (not you btw).
Yeah, its not finished.
If I ever became a game maker, what I have learned from this whole experience is.... never... ever... under any circumstances... make the development process public. Most gamers do not have the mental capacity to understand it all.
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