BLAZE YOUR OWN TRAIL as long as you are opportunist

[Pille]

Note 1: Gamma has been called feature complete, so only bugfixes and polish till release.
Note 2: Obviously there will be more free updates after release.
Note 3: Paid expansions have been promoted that might add WIS (Walking in Stations) and Planetary Landings.


Ok, let's forget Offline-Gate for a moment. Let's ignore the fact that you can't properly interact, socialize and play with friends in the release candidate of a game that's being promoted as the next great multiplayer experience. Let's talk about the core idea of the game instead. I'm getting the impression that you can't really blaze your own trail in the game (yet?). And that it might be very hard to add certain features from the DDAs once the game is running openly.

Reference: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=62733&p=1072272&viewfull=1#post1072272
Missions are variations of the same 3-4 things to do with names and items rotated. No impact on anything, no connection to the world.
Trading is merely trucking from A to B.
Smuggling is running towards the door really fast.
Mining is just shooting a rock and collecting smaller rocks.
Pirating and Bounty Hunting are screwed or at least bugged. (See several threads on these topics in the Gamma Forum right now.)
Exploration could really be screwed, because it might not be possible to add it later in the way it was envisioned. See https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=62733&p=1066039&viewfull=1#post1066039 and https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=63837&p=1074327&viewfull=1#post1074327

Even though you have to admit the discrepancy between the DDAs and the implemented features you might still be unsure what I'm worried about: after all, you CAN get a mission, mine and transport something, let yourself be interdicted, kill someone, collect the bounty and pirate his cargo, which you 'smuggle' somewhere. On your way you collect some exploration data, which you can also sell. So it's all there, right? Well, technically the baseline version of these features is there. Yet, that doesn't allow you to blaze your own trail. Why?

The way the features are implemented the game forces you to play a certain way: the opportunist.

You have to find your own goal, you have to roleplay your pilot in your head, you have to fill in the gaps with you imagination - sound familiar? Yet, you can only play any way you like as long as you switch your style every time the game forces you to, which can happen several times in a single session. Get a bad starting position and you can't do many missions or trade a lot of stuff. In other situations pirating, mining or bounty hunting gets incredibly hard or if you manage to do it, it isn't any deep at all. People asking in the forum what to do get an interesting answer: you're playing the game wrong. Wait, how can that ever be a legit answer in a game that's supposed to let you blaze your own trail? One example is: let yourself get interdicted to earn easy bounties. What if I want to be a pacifist explorer? What if I don't want to carry any weapon at all? What if I start out as an explorer, but decide to keep advanced hyperjump routes for myself instead of selling the data - so I can use them for smuggling activity later on? What if I want to be a miner who manipulates trade? None of this is possible, instead I have to play trucker for anything that comes up and do combat minigames (interdictions) which turn me into a bounty hunter for a minute or two. You can't really specialize and get skillful at one thing while leaving others - blazing your own trail - instead you have to do everything a little bit whenever the game throws it at you.


So I'm pretty worried about Frontier's communication, PR and design roadmap. All we know is that they're going to release updates after release and start working on the paid expansions - Walking on Stations & Planetary Landings. There is no word on the features as described in the DDAs. I'd like to know when you can actually BLAZE YOUR OWN TRAIL in the Flying In Space part of the game and no longer need to play as opportunist. And honestly, I couldn't care less about WIS as long as FIS is as barebones as it is now. (And there are definately some crazy expectations attached to those expansions.)

What do you think is a realistic estimation of when we will get a fleshed out FIS game where you can actually Blaze Your Own Trail? Six months from now? Twelve? Do you think it's still possible to make exploration come close to the DDA and make it a viable career - without being a Bounty Hunter and Trucker on the side?

 

[The Big One]

I completely agree with you. I want to believe that FD spent too much time tweaking P2P and slowly killing offline, so they didn't have enough time to implement more in-depth gameplay features from the DDA's. Current gameplay is shallow, buggy as hell and if not fixed, will burn this game,

I am pretty unsatisfied right now, locked in a few systems with no FSD upgrade. So I stopped playing. That's how awesome this gamma build is for me.

 

[Ark_Esoteric]

To be honest, I'm concerned too. I understand that delays can occur, but the communication has been less that stellar about some, IMO, VERY important features (no pun intended).

 

[Wrathschild]

I completely agree with you. I want to believe that FD spent too much time tweaking P2P and slowly killing offline, so they didn't have enough time to implement more in-depth gameplay features from the DDA's. Current gameplay is shallow, buggy as hell and if not fixed, will burn this game,

I am pretty unsatisfied right now, locked in a few systems with no FSD upgrade. So I stopped playing. That's how awesome this gamma build is for me.

I, sadly, have to agree to a degree. I'm just finding it all a bit tedious at the moment for some reason, going to have to give it at least a rev or two I think..

 

[mnemon]

You can be a pacifist explorer, as long as you're good at running away.

Bounty hunting and pirating both work well enough at the moment, especially bounty hunting is easy money.

 

[Jockey79]

Reference: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=62733&p=1072272&viewfull=1#post1072272
Missions are variations of the same 3-4 things to do with names and items rotated. No impact on anything, no connection to the world.
Trading is merely trucking from A to B.
Smuggling is running towards the door really fast.
Mining is just shooting a rock and collecting smaller rocks.
Pirating and Bounty Hunting are screwed or at least bugged. (See several threads on these topics in the Gamma Forum right now.)
Exploration could really be screwed, because it might not be possible to add it later in the way it was envisioned.

You can break any game down in to the basic actions in it;

W.O.W = Go out, kill 10 things, come back - repeat until level 90
EVE = Dodge the gank squads, stare at mining beams or play ring a roses F1, F2, F3, F4.... combat.
STO = Go out, kill 5 things, come back.... level 60 yet? no, do it again.
Most FPS games = Hide behind something, spray fire, hide, spray, hide, spray.

You can do this with any game, be it MMO, FPS, RPG - does not matter, all games are just few actions repeated over and over. You have to use your imagination to stop yourself becoming a mindless drone drooling at your computer.

Also, I spent a whole day bounty hunting - worked fine for me. Just bounced between a few stars scanning ships for the wanted marker and dragging out of supercruise and pop, instant cash I also have a scroll wheel on my F.L.Y. 5 which I use for subsystem targeting to cripple my targets (or take out cargo holds for fun and watch them spill their guts ).

I must add, mining in this is better than in EVE*. After spending 12 hour sessions watching 8 yellow beams and dragging from my hold to a jet can... this is much more involved and fun. Plus it is funny how much I swear each time I don't quite line up the cargo scoop (I cannot mine when my children are about, don't need them going to school saying the stuff I say lol).

This game is what you make of it - if you come at it going "entertain me now", then you will be very disappointed. It is not for people to turn their brains off and phase out for hours. If you come at it with "what can I get up to today?" - you will find fun things to do. I was teasing an NPC today while exploring a system. I had around 10 unexplored things in my Nav list and as I started out towards one, I seen a blip behind me, closing fast. Last second, I cut my speed and spun around - whiz, it went past like a dart so it turned to try again. I turned around and it went whiz past me again (as it has to be behind you to interdict you) - I just kept chaning me speed and direction to make it go past and have to turn about. This went on for ages, I was laughing my backside off each time it shot past me. Simple, yet fun*.

* = In my opinion.

 

[Pille]

This game is what you make of it - if you come at it going "entertain me now", then you will be very disappointed. It is not for people to turn their brains off and phase out for hours.

I know this is a standard answer around here and it's fine to let people know what this game is about. However I didn't say "entertain me now" at all. On the contrary, what I'm saying is: if you take the proposed core of the game seriously THEN it's lacking. It's not that I don't understand what this game is about, it's that if I take it seriously, it doesn't deliver.

If you come at it with "what can I get up to today?" - you will find fun things to do.

Yeah but you have to readjust your internal story and imagination to every interdiction, every little event that happens. It's not viable to be an explorer without being a trucker, bounty hunter and assassin on the side. You have to be an opportunist all the time. You can NOT make your own way, because whatever you pick, you'll find the path lacking depth, features and mechanics. The only way to not notice this lack is to be opportunist and do everything a little bit whenever it comes up. You're a good player if you let yourself be distracted from your own goals every single chance. Having a short attention span and abandoning your own goals first chance you get is rewarded instead of punished.

 

[Alex988]

Note 1: Gamma has been called feature complete, so only bugfixes and polish till release.
Note 2: Obviously there will be more free updates after release.
Note 3: Paid expansions have been promoted that might add WIS (Walking in Stations) and Planetary Landings.


Ok, let's forget Offline-Gate for a moment. Let's ignore the fact that you can't properly interact, socialize and play with friends in the release candidate of a game that's being promoted as the next great multiplayer experience. Let's talk about the core idea of the game instead. I'm getting the impression that you can't really blaze your own trail in the game (yet?). And that it might be very hard to add certain features from the DDAs once the game is running openly.

Reference: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=62733&p=1072272&viewfull=1#post1072272
Missions are variations of the same 3-4 things to do with names and items rotated. No impact on anything, no connection to the world.
Trading is merely trucking from A to B.
Smuggling is running towards the door really fast.
Mining is just shooting a rock and collecting smaller rocks.
Pirating and Bounty Hunting are screwed or at least bugged. (See several threads on these topics in the Gamma Forum right now.)
Exploration could really be screwed, because it might not be possible to add it later in the way it was envisioned. See https://forums.frontier.co.uk [/QUO... just one activity it can get dull very fast.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

This game is what you make of it - if you come at it going "entertain me now", then you will be very disappointed. It is not for people to turn their brains off and phase out for hours. If you come at it with "what can I get up to today?" - you will find fun things to do.

^^ This. The game, just like the original, requires imagination. Yes, plenty still missing for them moment, and once we get better partying tools and the evolving galaxy things will improve. Or at least we can hope.

 

[OrientalHero]

You can break any game down in to the basic actions in it;

W.O.W = Go out, kill 10 things, come back - repeat until level 90
EVE = Dodge the gank squads, stare at mining beams or play ring a roses F1, F2, F3, F4.... combat.
STO = Go out, kill 5 things, come back.... level 60 yet? no, do it again.
Most FPS games = Hide behind something, spray fire, hide, spray, hide, spray.

You can do this with any game, be it MMO, FPS, RPG - does not matter, all games are just few actions repeated over and over. You have to use your imagination to stop yourself becoming a mindless drone drooling at your computer.

....

This game is what you make of it -
...

I have to agree with the distilling things down to basics too much.
In Everquest 2, you can say the same as WOW.
But in one of the very early missions to go and kill a specific something, I was handed an awesome mission story on the Freeport "baddie" side (or shall we just say less constrained by their conscience/social mores?).

Spoiler

The contract was served by a Dark Elf officer who'd had a rather besotted affair with a "good Elf". Now that he was assuming his role in the family, he'd wanted no strings or loose ends hanging over him. However, he couldn't do it himself...

That totally changed my view of the mission and context and also affected my decision in the final outcome.
It was quite a minor mission in the grand scheme of things but does emphasise the role of the background/lore etc in bringing the game to life.

 

[Jack Booted Thug]

I'm hoping that the missions will expand when the universe simulation goes online.

At the moment it is just rinse and repeat and is very easy.

In one mission I had to transport some part from A to B. I get to B and then there is a mission by the same corp wanting me to transport the same parts from B to A. Figure that one out? I did it anyway cos it was easy credits but it is not very immersive.

I have also had the exact same mission show up multiple times. There is one place that keeps being compromised and needs a fresh delivery of computer chips. This joint seems to get compromised pretty often. Crazy stuff.

Anyway time will tell if this is how it is or if things will get interesting.

 

[Rearden]

I went and read the discovery threads. That seemed a cool plan, maybe one day we'll have a game like that and I may even turn explorer.

It does seem everything is watered down, my plan was to be a smuggler and to be honest I have no problem with the "running at station really fast", it is better than having a super secret cargo hold in your ship that you can fly normally into station and not get caught. My main gripe with it at the moment is that the gameplay consists of visiting randomly USS to see if there is any cargo there and then drop it to station - the game has too many random things that they try to sell as "dynamic". Why can't I smuggle legally attained goods (e.g. buy narcotics where legal and move them to where it is illegal). Well technically I can but the way the black market works it virtually guarantees a loss. Best case scenario less than 1/10 of what I would do with a legal trade run. Also, those pirate missions are not smuggling missions, I want real smuggling missions. I want the "get rich quick" scheme side of things, and the risk on top of it so if anything changes to the "run fast to station" (and honestly if that is all you do you will get fined a significat amount of the time) I hope it is only to add difficulties that require player skill and not to introduce magical ship fittings that will let you behave like a normal trader.

Piracy seems to be gettng better but as whole it has the same issue as many other aspects of this game: it was designed for a single player experience so it kinda works against NPCs since the last patch but the lack of Frontier's experience with MMOs is telling here.

Overall it doesn't feel very sandboxy at all. Or maybe its a sandbox where someone forgot to put the sand.

 

[Chek]

This game is what you make of it - if you come at it going "entertain me now", then you will be very disappointed. It is not for people to turn their brains off and phase out for hours. If you come at it with "what can I get up to today?" - you will find fun things to do.

* = In my opinion.

That's certainly how I'm coming at it. Can't stop playing. Very enjoyable.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

Not sure how it's possible to answer your posted question without making it incredibly long... which would end up like "Kremmen's Log: Stardate 123456". Who wants to read that?

So I'll just say it really simply...

In Gamma, I'm finding I can, in fact, "blaze my own trail".


Good luck out there!

 

[Hawkmoon]

I went and read the discovery threads. That seemed a cool plan, maybe one day we'll have a game like that and I may even turn explorer.

It does seem everything is watered down, my plan was to be a smuggler and to be honest I have no problem with the "running at station really fast", it is better than having a super secret cargo hold in your ship that you can fly normally into station and not get caught. My main gripe with it at the moment is that the gameplay consists of visiting randomly USS to see if there is any cargo there and then drop it to station - the game has too many random things that they try to sell as "dynamic". Why can't I smuggle legally attained goods (e.g. buy narcotics where legal and move them to where it is illegal). Well technically I can but the way the black market works it virtually guarantees a loss. Best case scenario less than 1/10 of what I would do with a legal trade run. Also, those pirate missions are not smuggling missions, I want real smuggling missions. I want the "get rich quick" scheme side of things, and the risk on top of it so if anything changes to the "run fast to station" (and honestly if that is all you do you will get fined a significat amount of the time) I hope it is only to add difficulties that require player skill and not to introduce magical ship fittings that will let you behave like a normal trader.

Piracy seems to be gettng better but as whole it has the same issue as many other aspects of this game: it was designed for a single player experience so it kinda works against NPCs since the last patch but the lack of Frontier's experience with MMOs is telling here.

Overall it doesn't feel very sandboxy at all. Or maybe its a sandbox where someone forgot to put the sand.

For smuggling you don't need to zoom you can use stealth as well, switch off all non essential systems and then as soon as you see the Authority vessels go stealth, by switching off as much as possible you will slow down your heat build. I scooped three tons of contraband from 50m outside a station using this yesterday in my sidey and made 6k. I used the same system to sneak into the next station I came which luckily had a black market. The primary detection system in ED is heat (which makes sense in deep space) so keeping you emissions down make you harder to spot. If you have a heat sink launcher you can stay hidden for longer yet.

As for the multi player side of things, you are completely correct it is a single player game and always has been but due to demand for multi players they have added a feature, the attraction of elite to many (but not all) players has always been the feeling of being alone in a hostile galaxy, doing what you can to get by, until you can get enough credits to buy better equipment to do the thing that who want to. An Asp or Cobra fully equipped for exploration would be able to pretty much just do that and make a profit, likewise a well equipped cargo ship will be able to make a profit just trading, but to start with you do what you have to to get by and that might mean stepping over the line you said you would never cross. If the money is good enough.

As for sand box, well Elite made the genre back in the eighties and everyone else has built on the basic idea, with ED we have gone back to basics just a big old galaxy with little you stuck in the middle no script no directions just get out there and make it or die trying.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

There are also station where things are illigle on the markets but you can smuggle them in and sell on the black market, I have not tried this yet on ED, but in previous versions you could make bigger profits then selling to markets were these were legal. An easy option is narcotics most stations have them listed as illegal but a few export them.

 

[Retrac100]

Not sure how it's possible to answer your posted question without making it incredibly long... which would end up like "Kremmen's Log: Stardate 123456". Who wants to read that?

So I'll just say it really simply...

In Gamma, I'm finding I can, in fact, "blaze my own trail".


Good luck out there!

Ha ha! I agree, i'm having a blast. Since Gamma started I find that i'm getting much more involved because "now it's for real" (please no wipe!).
When I jumped into my first Empire system, I found a blasted Viper with technical blueprints floating near it. It seemed mysterious so I collected them and had to sneak my way to a black market to flog them. I think there's so much scope for this I am really looking forward to seeing it evolve.
I'm constantly switching between roles depending on how I'm feeling. It's just really great (spot the fanboy)
I am loving this game!

 

[Toscaner]

not a bad OP. doesn't seem like your just bashing the game without reason.

still i have to disagree with some parts. for example the pacifist explorer thing. i did exactly that yesterday for several hours without shooting once.
i could evade most of the interdiction attempts and ran from the few that got me, which was not as easy, but that's why it felt like and achievement.
and when i got 3 system away from my starting location, into an unexplored system, there was only one NPC there and not a single interdiction.

i explored the whole system (i think) until i finally ran out of fuel. lol

 

[jms]

Ha ha! I agree, i'm having a blast. Since Gamma started I find that i'm getting much more involved because "now it's for real" (please no wipe!).
When I jumped into my first Empire system, I found a blasted Viper with technical blueprints floating near it. It seemed mysterious so I collected them and had to sneak my way to a black market to flog them. I think there's so much scope for this I am really looking forward to seeing it evolve.
I'm constantly switching between roles depending on how I'm feeling. It's just really great (spot the fanboy)
I am loving this game!

An the first evening of gamma I started 150 ly away from earth and planned to go straight to earth... than I got distracted by a nice transport mission... jumped to the wrong system - unexplored XYZ 206 instead of XYZ 208- where I started exploring and wondering why I could not find my station - found 10 tonnes of ancient artifacts drifting in space - picked them up - wondered why ancient artifacts can be stolen! - had to find a station with a black market and smuggle the artifacts in ...

Now I am farer away from earth than before, but having a great time!

 

[Jockey79]

It's not viable to be an explorer without being a trucker, bounty hunter and assassin on the side.

Excuse me?

My sidey does not even have a cargo hold fitted, I have a fuel scoop and D-Scanner. I have not looked at a job board since Saturday and I only fire my guns in self defence.

I've made 40k just by flying about scanning things and collected about 20k on bounties I've handed in when I'm forced out of supercruise (and I'm quite good at avoiding it). I'm no hunter and I'm no trader.

I told my friends if they want me, I'll be heading to the second star to the right and straight on 'til morning. I travelled 160Ly in 30 jumps in my last play session and docked maybe half a dozen times for repairs.

 

[Dai]

All about perspective,, and expectations.

For me it has everything and I feel I can blaze my own trail, yes some times the lines blur between ,umm shall we call them classes. However that's the same in life, you can just be one thing without having to do some of the other can you?