Starting/reset Avatar, Balance and Exploits - SOLUTION for Backers and New Players

[TANDKO]

There are some discussion about the exploits that can be used by selling backers reward items and resetting. So I would like to come up with a solution that would affect all the players and may be interesting. OK, let's begin.

At the start people have different resources available to them in form of ships or CR depending of their backer's status/tier or pre-order. These resources can be used for exploits, whereas 1000CR doesn't make a lot of difference, ships and good equipment do. As it is necessary to give rewards to backers, let's not forget about the other people who will join us later. Moreover some people think that the backers should also work their way up the ladder not just sell starting items. That what I suggest as a solution which will affect backers and "join later" players:

Have a starting/reset screen with a number of available points(depending on backer status/tier), these points can be spent on staring ships and equipment. The ships and equipment that are bought for these points will cost 0CR in game. None of the players get any CR at the start. A player can choose one high grade or several simple starting ships and equipment that he/she wants for the starting ship depending on players intentions(trade/fight/explore). That should work for all the players, backers will get their head start with equipped SW/Eagles/Vipers/Cobras and new players will be able to create their starting SW according to their preferences(trade/fight/explore) as well. Bakers will also be able to try their ships and chose one that they like.

E.g: If I am a low tier backer I have SW and Eagle(as it is currently) let's make them equivalent to 100+100 points at the start so I can take both of them or take a Viper for 200. If I am a backer with Cobra and Eagle, and they are equal to 400+100 points, I could get them both or something(which is not there yet - gap is too big) for 500 points or transfer 100 points to equipment. Same applicable to equipment.
New players will get a SW and some points for equipment to choose according to their intended path in the game.
All starting equipment cost 0CR.
No credits are given players at the beginning - got a hauler and want credits for trading, take a delivery mission first.

The narrative for that can be that your distant ancestor has disappeared(might be a quest late in game) but left you an equipped ship, access to which is locked to an alive subject with special DNA, retinal or brain signature. All the ship systems are encrypted and only work with that ship. So neither ship nor the equipment can't be used by anyone but original owner thus the price for them is 0CR.

Please, discuss, what you think about that. Especially, high tier backers, would you be interested in abandoning credits that you have for better equipment at the start and earn you way up?
I think it is not difficult for the developers to implement this before the final release and it would solve some problems and also add some customization to players avatar(ship).

 

[RikonGB]

I was a premium backer and only starting benefit we get is the mercenary edition pack, same as any other person who pre-orders as far as I can tell until official release.

The other packs are from people who backed on kickstarter.

Unfortunately those like me who were late finding out about it and missed the kickstarter campaign, are not eligible for any of the other 'premium' starter options, even though the premium beta was higher cost than the required kickstarter levels (always annoys me I missed the kickstarter campaign but that was my fault, because I wanted to start in a cobra like the original series).

Due to this even if you want to count this (selling assets) as an exploit, the only people who have a bigger advantage with the higher value packs are the kickstarter backers.

You can earn the cost of the 'eagle' in an hour or so, so it is not really that much of an advantage.
If your that worried play 'solo' till you get a ship and enough funds before switching to 'open' play.

 

[reload]

Nice idea, but needlessly complex system unfortunately. Much easier to just zero the value of the items on 'starter' ships, and explain it away with hand-wavium as "Loaned" and all proceeds from the sale go to the original owners

 

[MorkFromOrk]

Surely a simpler way would be to have all items available to sell once. Any time we accept our starter ship again after the first time (no insurance cost) then everything is marked as 'loan'. They are only sellable again if you wipe your save.

 

[StayFrosty]

Nice idea, but needlessly complex system unfortunately. Much easier to just zero the value of the items on 'starter' ships, and explain it away with hand-wavium as "Loaned" and all proceeds from the sale go to the original owners

I'm surprised they haven't done this, it's so obvious and simple, you'd wonder why they would do anything else.

 

[Vovin]

I'm surprised they haven't done this, it's so obvious and simple, you'd wonder why they would do anything else.

I both agree and disagree! It's a simply elegant way to resolve the issue but then shorts the people that don't want an Eagle. I think it would be better to offer the ability to select between some of the lower cost ships because I sold my freagle to get a hauler as struttin' around in an eagle wasn't something that I wanted to do. That capability is actually already built into the game, so combine the two and voila.

 

[StayFrosty]

shorts the people that don't want an Eagle.

Then they're free to start in a Sidewinder with 100 credits?

Let's not forget the Freagle is a "bonus", this isn't Star Citizen, you don't buy the ship you want to play with.

 

[TANDKO]

Let's put it this way.

Have a starting/reset screen with a number of available CRs (depending on backer status/tier), these CR can be spent on staring ships and equipment. The ships and equipment that are bought for these CR at the start will cost 0CR in game. A player can choose one high grade or several simple starting ships and equipment that he/she wants for the starting ship depending on players intentions(trade/fight/explore). That should work for all the players, backers will get their head start with equipped SW/Eagles/Vipers/Cobras and new players will be able to create their starting SW according to their preferences(trade/fight/explore) as well.

E.g: A low tier backer I have SW and Eagle(as it is currently) let's make them equivalent to 50k+50k CR +50k for equipment at the start so I can take both of them or take an empty Viper for 150k. A backer with equipped Cobra and Eagle, 350+50 and +1m equipment, could get both or an empty ASP.

 

[StayFrosty]

Let's put it this way.

Have a starting/reset screen with a number of available CRs (depending on backer status/tier), these CR can be spent on staring ships and equipment. The ships and equipment that are bought for these CR at the start will cost 0CR in game. A player can choose one high grade or several simple starting ships and equipment that he/she wants for the starting ship depending on players intentions(trade/fight/explore). That should work for all the players, backers will get their head start with equipped SW/Eagles/Vipers/Cobras and new players will be able to create their starting SW according to their preferences(trade/fight/explore) as well.

E.g: A low tier backer I have SW and Eagle(as it is currently) let's make them equivalent to 50k+50k CR +50k for equipment at the start so I can take both of them or take an empty Viper for 150k. A backer with equipped Cobra and Eagle, 350+50 and +1m equipment, could get both or an empty ASP.

Prices fluctuate from station to station. Plus it allows people to get what they want without playing the game, which could lead to massive suicide ganking if you make things far too easy.

It's bad enough the way it is already, changing it will only make things worse.

 

[EtherDragon]

As a Kickstarter backer with all the star-up perks I can definitively tell you that the bonus starting conditions we have are not that great compared to everyone else - the main reason is Ramdom Starting Locations.

I have looked at and tried all my starting options, here is what I found.

I have the stock starting option of a Sidewinder and 100 credits.
I also have the starting option of a the same Sidewinder and 500 credits.
These two are literally the same - the difference of 400 credits isn't helpful at all when you can find starter missions in the 2,000 - 5,000cr range.

The imperial Bounty Hunter option is pretty fun to start with - but if you're not already good at combat (I mean, seriously good) you're not going to make any money with the thing.

The Kickstarter Cobras I have access to are really cool - and a significant financial head start. However, there are no players around to compare them to!
The Exploration Cobra is parked at a random station near the edge of explored space - it's purpose to go deep into the black and start discovering. I rarely see any NPC ships, and have never seen another PC.
The Pirate Cobra is pretty good, but you're a pirate with an active bounty on your head, and pirating is HARD - seriously HARD-MODE hard. And the random system placement pretty much guarantees you're not going to see any PCs hardly ever.

Lastly - the way DB made this game - it's not a race. Yes it's multi-player, but it's not direct competitive multi-player, unless you're a PvP pirate or PvP bounty hunter - both of which are hard due to random system placement.

I will be doing YouTube work ups for all of these starting options, so everyone can see just how they work, and realize that the net advantage is pretty small at the end of the day.

 

[TANDKO]

Prices fluctuate from station to station. Plus it allows people to get what they want without playing the game, which could lead to massive suicide ganking if you make things far too easy.

It's bad enough the way it is already, changing it will only make things worse.

For the starting screen the fluctuation is obsolete. The value is 0CR anyway. KS will get their bonuses and nothing more. People will have an option to customise a starting ship. E.g. if you start with SW you can take an upgraded cargo bay band engine but no shield, weapons and scanners. So make a starting cargo ship. Or take engine, and scanners so make an explorer. Or take low grade of everything and have a Jack of All Trades

 

[Arkku]

Lastly - the way DB made this game - it's not a race.

+1

We don't (and shouldn't) even have any leaderboard. The only way to see how other players are doing is out of game communication, except for the ship and combat rating that can be seen in the scanner. And even with the ship you don't know what other ships they have or what grade modules they use (there are, e.g., Cobras costing over 10 times the basic price). And in the end it doesn't matter...

 

[TANDKO]

My suggestion is not about taking an advantage off the backers or having a race, on contrary quite the opposite. Give more customisation options and removing exploit.
You will still be able to create any Cobra you want and get cheaper shpis as well if you want.
Backers with Cobras will benifit the most anyway, but everybody will have a choice.

 

[TANDKO]

And in the end it doesn't matter...

Is that what you would be saying flying in basic SW in space crowded with Anacondas? Don't forget that after release there will be a lot of basic SW owners, and we need them to make this game more alive.

 

[Arkku]

Is that what you would be saying flying in basic SW in space crowded with Anacondas? Don't forget that after release there will be a lot of basic SW owners, and we need them to make this game more alive.

I've been flying a basic Sidewinder, and unarmed Hauler, in space crowded with Anacondas, I never bothered to grind up much during the betas. Never had any problems with seeing other players in better ships than me.

Anyhow, I don't understand what you're getting at.

New players will be joining not only on December 16th but any number of months after release, and they will be flying basic sidewinders, and other players will be resetting their saves to start over (some with a basic sidewinder even if they have a Cobra available). The game must be enjoyable in a basic Sidewinder years after launch, when thousands of players have had the chance to work their way into an Anaconda, it cannot be that the success of other players inherently makes the game worse for newcomers or those who don't have as much time or inclination to grind. In my opinion it isn't a problem even now, and even if you remove backer rewards* or give everyone better starting ships or make high end ships more expensive, there still will be players joining after others have had the opportunity to get the bigger ships, even if they started December 16th (or later) in the stock Sidewinder...


* Not that they really can remove the backer rewards, since they were detailed in the kickstarter pledges, but I'm speaking hypothetically.

 

[LuciusEsox]

I cant help but thinking all the talk of is there going to be a wipe whenever is going to be totally unimportant about a week after launch. I must admit I also don't get why so many are getting so bent out of shape when all we are still doing is "testing" the game ?

Probably just me.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Surely a simpler way would be to have all items available to sell once. Any time we accept our starter ship again after the first time (no insurance cost) then everything is marked as 'loan'. They are only sellable again if you wipe your save.

This seems to be the case with the Sidewinder. If you choose the free sidewinder, or pay your insurance and get your ship as kitted out, your vessel is always costed at 0.

 

[Arkku]

I cant help but thinking all the talk of is there going to be a wipe whenever is going to be totally unimportant about a week after launch. I must admit I also don't get why so many are getting so bent out of shape when all we are still doing is "testing" the game ?

I think the problem many people have with the possible wipe is mostly about how it was communicated and people were expecting to actually start playing at the gamma, rather than just testing, as well as the uncertainty of the wipe. At least I don't personally see it as being about having a head start, although admittedly some seem to feel entitled to that reward (with some justification given their endurance of earlier wipes and the expectation based on earlier communication). Anyhow, read this thread being about rewards and starting more than the wipe.

Meanwhile I fully agree that for game balance wipe and starting options both will mean very little a week after launch.