To the people that complain about people complaining

By no means I will try to mock you here, this is not supposed to be a flaming/trolling/whatever thread. I just want to try to explain to you why people are currently complaining about a lack of features/content.
First of all they don't complain because they don't like the game. It's the exact opposite. They like the game and want it to be as successful as possible. They only fear that because the game in it's current state (yes it's only gamma, but wake up guys release is in mererly a month) doesn't match their expectations, critics might get a bad first impression of the game after release and people who despite that still buy it might not be satisfied.
Now you might say just because the expectations of a few people aren't met, the game won't automatically be unsuccessful. And you are right. Well, or not, depending on how many people 'a few' are:

Let me make a bold assumption: by great chance you (who complains about people complaining) are going to be an explorer in ED. And that's perfectly fine. But ask yourself this question: What are you doing the exploring for? Is it because you are generally interested in astronomy, everytime you see a new star zoom towards you after frameshift gives you goosebumps and you want to go to star systems that no player has ever explored before? In short: are you exploring just for the fun of exploring?
If so, congratulations! Then you have already got all the features you need and with 4 billion star systems in ED you've got content for the next 100,000 Years or so of gameplay to keep you happy.

But let me remind you that in a game that is supposed to feature piracy, bounty hunting, mining, trading, smuggling, being a mercenary and what not else as well, exploring is only one part of the game.

And for 'the few' that are complaining, gameplay at this stage looks the following:

Interdict, shoot, claim bounty, repeat.
Interdict, shoot, force cargo dropping, get cargo, sell cargo, repeat.
Buy goods, Frameshift, Supercruise, sell goods, repeat.

The thing with repetitions is, that they tend to get boring pretty quickly, especially if you have no real reason to do all these repetitions for.
A bounty hunter won't have a huge smile on his face when he kills his 100th pirate because it looked totally different than the kill before or the 98 kills before that (that's an exploring analogy here).

I know that many here are saying ED is about making up your own story inside the universe, therefore giving yourself a reason for the repetions and yes you can do that. That's a totally awesome way of playing (really). But not for everyone. I would even say it's not the way for most of the people that will play ED. Simply because most computer games provide a story or some kind of higher goal and people are used to it and expect it from a game (at least in a certain amount).

I also know that some people here are stating, that ED should rather be for the die-hard fans than try to appeal to the masses. Maybe you even assumed from my view of the game, that i'm not one of the die-hard fans. And you are right. In fact i never heard of the Elite series before. But let's face it: that's presumably what the majority of players will be like with FFE being almost 20 years in the past.
So ED hasn't really a choice there, since the servers ED is running on and the constant stream of updates and expansions everyone is eagerly awaiting, have to be funded somehow. And that is simply done by the masses.
And yes, you could say that this wouldn't be a problem if you had an offli... No. Stop it. Seriously.

I myself tried several things in ED: i started like most people by doing courier missions. Then I started my career as a trader which went rather well. Trucking my way from system to system i also used my D-Scanner occasionally and threw a little smuggle in just to spice it up from time to time. As i got barely enough credits to buy myself a Viper - and with the wipe for 3.9 coming - i tried bounty hunting and a little bit of piracy when no one was looking. The only thing I haven't tried yet is mining, just because i'm generally not very interested in it.
So i went through (almost) every playstyle to the part where it says 'repeat' and i am now, like many others, facing the question what to do, other than repeat.

Maybe a fellow CMDR might ask me if i want to go bounty hunting with him? Maybe word will spread that in some nearby system huge amounts of gold can be mined. Might even give that a try. Or Maybe the local pirates are planning the biggest heist in Eranins history?
Well, none of this is very likely for us to happen right now, because ED simply lacks a sense of community in-game. Hence the desperate cry for Multiplayer features. And no matter what FD will come up with in terms of galactic events and lore about the various factions of the game, it will never be as dynamic, unpredictable and exciting as community-generated content.
And for people complaining they want to feel alone in space and don't care about multiplayer: there are 4 billion star systems. Get lost. Or play solo (Ok, there was a bit of mocking there, but come on, you have your features already, now please let us have ours).

I hope this might help some of you to understand why part of this community has some concerns about the gameplay in ED, especially bearing in mind official release is coming up soon(tm). If you might even share some of these concerns with us, please help us pointing them out to FD, so we all can play a game we are all happy about and be able to play it in a way we are all happy about, hopefully for so long time, you won't even remember what the word 'offline' means anymore ;)


On a sidenote: I know another space sim (and i bet a good amount of you people do, too) that is almost 10 years old after all and also had an explicit lack of content in multiplayer but is still played today. It's called Freelancer (yeah, i know, it's by the other space-sim guy, but doesn't affect my point here). And why is that? Because people started giving it more features to play as a community by modding (the point here is 'community features', not 'modding' btw). They turned it from a multiplayer game to an MMO. Kind of where ED lacks right now, the MMO part.



TL;DR: read it fool.
 
Cheers commander, good post.

Maybe you are right, but maybe you want the game to be something that it isn't meant to be.

To put it anoter way, it is like you are saying 'I don't like this racing game, all I ever do is drive around in circles'.

For me the core gameplay is the flying itself. And they have that down pat. Also the combat, this is so good it it unprecedented.
Now instead of making it into a racing game (Arena Commander anyone?) they give you a _lot_ of reasons to fly around.

As for the multiplayer part, I tend to agree with you. They have put a lot of time and money into the multiplayer, and at the moment we lack on return on this investment.

But why is that, and why are they still releasing it now? Because

- they have the core gameplay they wanted, as a sucessor in the true spirit of the precursor Elite games.
- they are in this for the long run. It took them a while to get the MP mechanics sorted, but now they have a platform on which they can build heaps of good content.

see you all out there,
Commander Benderson
 

Chainmail

Banned
If all the moaners really want to make it better, they've got an odd way of showing it. Clogging up the forums of a game one ostensibly supports with talk about what a failure it is/will be, and how empty/boring it all is (as you couldn't resist doing), doesn't exactly bring the word "constructive" to mind.

Lots of so-called "constructive" posters list what's wrong and then suggest implementing the contents of the DDF docs, as if the developers never read a word of them. I'm sure they would have done so if it were possible in the timeframe, but it hasn't been yet. I don't see that as a failure on FD's part, they just need to get a release out there as a base to build upon.

A lot of other helpful posters don't even get as far as quoting the DDF docs by way of offering a suggestion, they just list what's rubbish in their opinion, add in a general "put more stuff in" and finish with a grim warning. Very helpful.
 
I think its releasing a little earlier than anticipated - but it'll be great when its finished. They need to release on time as there are business pressures but i'm confident it will all come together in the end - chill.
 
So, is this a well-written complaint against the complaining being done about complaining? I'm starting to get all Inception-y with these threads.
 
Maybe you are right, but maybe you want the game to be something that it isn't meant to be.
The main thing people want ED to be, as i mentioned, is successful. And the people who are currently complaining are afraid it might not be. If they will be right, no one knows. That is not the point. Point is: some people have concerns, let them express them.

To put it anoter way, it is like you are saying 'I don't like this racing game, all I ever do is drive around in circles'
As it happens to be, when not playing ED, i'm playing Gran Turismo. Going round in circles all day long. But when I do, usually with other players or within the championships the game provides.


For me the core gameplay is the flying itself. And they have that down pat. Also the combat, this is so good it it unprecedented
There's my other point, only because the current features satisfy a specific group of players they might not satisfy all of them. Let alone the players that will come after release.

they are in this for the long run. It took them a while to get the MP mechanics sorted, but now they have a platform on which they can build heaps of good content.
That's what the people that complain worries. Selling a game that only consists of mechanics might not be satisfying to everyone.
 
If all the moaners really want to make it better, they've got an odd way of showing it. Clogging up the forums of a game one ostensibly supports with talk about what a failure it is/will be, and how empty/boring it all is (as you couldn't resist doing), doesn't exactly bring the word "constructive" to mind.
So what's your idea of constructive criticism? "Yes Mr. Braben, this game is fantastic, i love how i can do the same things over and over again. Don't change anything, i'm sure the sells will sky-rocket!"
Now, i really started mocking. I'm sorry. I found my first post rather constructive to be honest.
 
I don't mind a complaint, I've had a complaint or 2.

My complaint on complainers when it is an attack on someone or a group (a player, the devs, DB... etc)... As son as it becomes personal is when I complain about the complainers. Even the company as a whole is kind of ok, more specific the company policies. But that easily becomes a personal attack on DB or the devs or the mods... and then it is a problem. It becomes Bullying and verbal assault.

On a less scale, "harping" on something... This means going on and on and on and... on exactly the same thing. This comes in 2 forms. The obvious,
"I don't like ...", to which thee is a reply "How can it be changed", to which they answer "I don't like ..."
I call it the broken record syndrome. The other (a much worse by far) is argument thread drift, this happens when a persons complaint colors other threads - my following example will a bit weird, but this is to make a point:
user 1: "I am having a problem, I can't take off without hitting things."
user 2: "Of course you are having problem, they won't even give me a refund!"
Basically user 2 makes this part of every thread, and frankly, it's just annoying. There are many examples of this happening in different ways.

So it isn't the complaining, it is how it is being applied and how it being used as a weapon against other users or individuals, many who don't care.
 
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I have no problem with constructive criticism and some complaining. It's healthy.
What does annoy me is the constant 'the game isn't ready because I can't <insert minor feature here>' posts
The core game is there. The game looks great, plays great, and I for one am super happy.

Sure interdiction are annoying, its hard to find some ship equipment and there are still some bugs to iron out. But, that the purpose of having a beta and gama stage to fix this stuff.
 
So what's your idea of constructive criticism? "Yes Mr. Braben, this game is fantastic, i love how i can do the same things over and over again. Don't change anything, i'm sure the sells will sky-rocket!"
Now, i really started mocking. I'm sorry. I found my first post rather constructive to be honest.

Dude, nobody's against constructive criticism, not even people who like the game a whole bunch. Pretty sure everyone else in this thread could give you a list of things that could be improved, suck totally, or are completely absent. But this isn't helping any; there's no meat on this bird. Lots of nice words in this post, but they still boil down to a few points:

- Zero Punctuation's gonna execute Elite
- Why do you like this game it's boring
- Appeal to the mystical casual dollar
- I personally find it boring, me and some others
- Obvious weak MP tools are obviously weak
- Please stop yelling at the other yellers because their anger is REAL


Only in the last part of this post do you vaguely suggest anything to improve any of the things you fear or dislike, by waving the Disco Freelancer at it. You're gonna need actual real things that are suggestions of how you would improve the things you dislike, instead of a list of things you dislike, or nobody's going to take you seriously as an agent of change no matter how well you write.
 
I did come here to complain about you complaining about people complaining about people complaining but now my brain hurts and I need a little lie down :p
 
You're gonna need actual real things that are suggestions of how you would improve the things you dislike, instead of a list of things you dislike, or nobody's going to take you seriously as an agent of change no matter how well you write.
Well actually this wasn't supposed to be the point of my thread. The forum is filled to the brim with threads that contain good suggestions for improving the gameplay (apart from those where people are really just complaining).
My goal was just to point out that it is important that these suggestions are made in this forum and especially that they are heard by the devs.

I did come here to complain about you complaining about people complaining about people complaining but now my brain hurts and I need a little lie down :p
Good to see that some people have still preserved their sense of humor in here. I more and more get the feeling that the climate in this forum is easily enough to instantly start a galaxy-wide war once the multiplayer features are added. ;)
 
As it happens to be, when not playing ED, i'm playing Gran Turismo. Going round in circles all day long. But when I do, usually with other players or within the championships the game provides.

Why not join up with a Commander or two and go bounty-hunting in an resource exctraction site together. There will be wanted anacondas.
I do this with my brother and we are having fun together.

I think it would also be possible to go bounty-hunting together in supercruise, when you interdict an NPC you leave a low energy cloud so your buddy can join? Have to try this myself though.


That's what the people that complain worries. Selling a game that only consists of mechanics might not be satisfying to everyone.

I understand your main point, people complain because they care. And I can see that you do, as well.

But a lot of people here feel that it doesn't have to satisfy everyone. Some may even feel (including me) that by (trying to) satisfy anyone you would water down the game to a place where it is not Elite anymore.

Take interdictions for example. I have played a lot of FE2 and FFE. There you get interdicted 4 times in a row, by three ships at once. In a core sytem, high sec, just hauling 4 ton of Fruit&Veggies. And yet here are people complaining there are too many interdictions (which are easy to wrestle out of if you want) and that the game is too hard (no, it's too easy, from my point of view).

I grew up with games like R-Type on the Amiga. I have never gotten past the second or third level and still played the game a lot.
One of the most higly praised old game of all times is X-COM (the original). One thing that made it so special was how hard it was. Funny thing: this was due to a bug -> it was stuck to the highest setting!

Please note that I put my money where my mouth is. I expect the game to sell fewer copies because it is 'hard', I'm making up for it by being a premium beta backer and buying ship skins that I don't really care about.
 
Well actually this wasn't supposed to be the point of my thread. The forum is filled to the brim with threads that contain good suggestions for improving the gameplay (apart from those where people are really just complaining).
My goal was just to point out that it is important that these suggestions are made in this forum and especially that they are heard by the devs.


Good to see that some people have still preserved their sense of humor in here. I more and more get the feeling that the climate in this forum is easily enough to instantly start a galaxy-wide war once the multiplayer features are added. ;)

Most everyone except the BitterRanters, the Blind Faith Choir (not the Clapton Winwood gig), and TrueTrolls are aware of this stuff already. Many of the devs personally read this forum. You see the Executive Producer here almost more than is natural, sometimes just in random silly threads. They have forums covered for the most part, they know what happens down here.

These types of threads usually add little to any positivity but can contribute greatly to the noise in the Noise/Signal ratio. The title alone is fairly well soaked in gasoline, I'm sure you can see that if you think about it, despite any good intention on your part.
 
not going to read the full thread, I don't have time, but to the OP. The issue I have with complainers is not the fact the have an issue per se, it is often the way they address the issue. Also a lot of the time the answer is given and they persist.
.
When it gets to a level where nearly every post is getting contaminated by the complainers then it gets annoying and then I would complain about complainers, other than that feel free to vent!
 
Yes agreed, but what if people who buy ED after Dec 16th expect it to be more than a 'core game'?

Well I'm thoroughly enjoying the game and am expecting more than a core game.

I'm expecting to walk around my ship and through space stations. To land on planets, leave my ship and admire the fauna and wildlife and it all BEGINS on Dec 16th.

Dec 16 is when the development REALLY starts. Beta and gamma are just the preliminaries.

In the meantime I shall trade, Mine, explore, Deal with interdictions, learn how to conduct interdictions. I shall bounty hunt, become wanted and do battle with those who come after me. I will learn how to wrest cargo from another ships hold and then smuggle said cargo into stations and sell on the black market. I shall customise and upgrade individual ships to perform the various tasks mentioned above. I shall disappear into the endless depths of the galaxy, scooping plasma to fuel my ship from belching fusion reactors, I shall boldly go where...yeah well you know.

This game as it stands now is going to keep me and others like me occupied for a looong time to come.
 
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