To the people that complain about people complaining

[TheDorStor]

Please note that I put my money where my mouth is. I expect the game to sell fewer copies because it is 'hard', I'm making up for it by being a premium beta backer and buying ship skins that I don't really care about.

We all thank you for backing the game, without those backings this project wouldn't be where it is now (if it were anywhere at all).
But unfortunately being a premium beta backer and buying ship skins won't quite make up the loss of a fewer sold copies, i'm afraid.

Most everyone except the BitterRanters, the Blind Faith Choir (not the Clapton Winwood gig), and TrueTrolls are aware of this stuff already. Many of the devs personally read this forum. You see the Executive Producer here almost more than is natural, sometimes just in random silly threads. They have forums covered for the most part, they know what happens down here.

Then I have to admit my thread adresses completely the wrong issue. Because I personally haven't had the impression that FD is listening very much. Though this might be based on the lack of feedback from the devs that i'm feeling. And I would think the 'complainers' have the same feeling.
I start to think that the whole complainers problem could be solved if FD would just post a statement ensuring us, that they won't mess up EDs release because they desperately want to put it on sale before christmas.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Dec 16 is when the development REALLY starts.

Well, that is not the usual procedure in developing a game. Usually it's vice versa. First development, then Release.
Problem is: customers might expect a developed game when they buy it.

 

[Tarman]

We all thank you for backing the game, without those backings this project wouldn't be where it is now (if it were anywhere at all).
But unfortunately being a premium beta backer and buying ship skins won't quite make up the loss of a fewer sold copies, i'm afraid.


Then I have to admit my thread adresses completely the wrong issue. Because I personally haven't had the impression that FD is listening very much. Though this might be based on the lack of feedback from the devs that i'm feeling. And I would think the 'complainers' have the same feeling.
I start to think that the whole complainers problem could be solved if FD would just post a statement ensuring us, that they won't mess up EDs release because they desperately want to put it on sale before christmas.

Personally I'd like to think most of the coding team is too up to their eyeballs in pizza boxes and Red Bull cans to answer some trepidation about what they're slaving away at. Alternately I also think their comm department are not always "the best there is at what they do" (tm Marvel); they may not be used to the teapot tempest that is a major gamedev community. But ultimately the fear is just unfounded regardless of game features; mainly because it's just waaay too much SRS BSNS wrapped up in what is essentially us all Playing Spaceman.

There's a point that some folks reach when they've taken what should just be a game, and turn it into some kind of passionate crusade. That's just too far for sensibility's sake, really. I've seen posts in betas that read like a manifesto for a national revolution. Folks can like the game or dislike the game, but mostly they need to dial back and not dump the same passion into playing spaceman that they'd usually save for major sociopolitical upheaval.

 

[Chazzie]

I think its releasing a little earlier than anticipated - but it'll be great when its finished. They need to release on time as there are business pressures but i'm confident it will all come together in the end - chill.

Said similar things myself several times - I'm glad someone else gets it!

 

[Dai]

WOW ED is already more than a core game, there are a handful of features missing and that's it, I have the feeling if you don't like it now you may never like it.

 

[nosscar]

I agree with the OP.
I really want this game to be more than it is, I love the vision in the DDA of this game, unfortunately a lot is still missing or dropped from that DDA.
Exploring for instance is just pointed your ship at unexplored and wait- done.
Everything is too much rinse and repeat. It needs more story unfolding, more interaction with NPC's and the game world.
Your actions need to have cause and effect. Missions and trading need to be more on a personal note, not just text message on a screen.
"Thank you Commander, your efforts will now help us to achieve x" would be nice.
.
For multi player, enable a group to get together to travel and explore, or fight, and have some reward or reason for doing this.
Of course with the galaxy all plotted out, exploration is now borked anyway, would have been nice if they stuck to the original DDA and we had to find hyper jumps and new systems ourselves. We could then have kept it to ourselves, or sold it for a high amount of credits. Or a group could have defended their own territory, stopping others finding it.
The route planning is terrible as now, even though you can see a system, you can't pre plan a route, so you run dry on the way and die. 4 minutes air supply after fuel gone, yet you can't summon help.
.
Be interesting to know in the future how players can effect the economy too, but I am guessing not much at all.
I know it's Gamma, but most believe that what you see now is what you get, with a bit of polish/bug fixes.
I want this game to be alive next year too, improving all the time, my fear is that players will not buy it, or buy it and stop playing soon after, and the game and future updates will fade away.

 

[TheDorStor]

WOW ED is already more than a core game, there are a handful of features missing and that's it

That's the point most of the complainers want to make: if a game is released for public sale, it shouldn't 'miss a handful features'.
I mean, just read that last sentence out loud, it does not sound right.

unfortunately a lot is still missing or dropped from that DDA.

Exactly, it's not as the complainers just rant for features they make up out of thin air (the most of them at least) and that's why I find most of the complaints I read reasonable. Because FD had it all already planned out but lacks to deliver.
I personally was shocked when I read the release would be Dec 2014. I would have expected more Dec 2015. I was pretty sure that release would be moved back eventually, only to be even more shocked by the fact that they are going to release a game that only contains a fraction of the features that were planned. Of course FD wouldn't have had all the features ready for release anyway, since things like planetary landings and stuff can only be achieved by expansions. And I get that. But only read the description of piracy in the DDA and compare to actual in-game piracy right now.

I think its releasing a little earlier than anticipated - but it'll be great when its finished.

I really must have missed that point in time where it startet to be ok to buy a game that is not finished.
Imagine a time when internet was a thing to communicate between scientific faculties and videogames had to be burnt on a silvery coated disc with lasers. Either you got it right the first time or you released a bad game. When dinosaurs ruled the world... [cue Jurassic Park Theme now]
I'm afraid I'm starting to mock again.
I hereby cease my activity in this thread until further notice, relying on all the KS and beta backers to keep ED alive even when it maybe might get a troubled start.

See you in the void commanders.

 

[XPhiler]

Thing is some times trying to improve things makes them worst. A game, any game is made up from small elements. Elements like kill this guy, go to that place, deliver this item etc.. Now rightfully you said sometimes people dont enjoy simply playing with those small elements because to them it feels repetitive. Fair statement. They suggest there needs to be story and gameplay written over it. Which is again fair enough. So lets take Exploration since you mention it. You may rightfully argue that going to start System A wondering around scanning every thing and then moving to start System B will get very boring by the time you reach Star System Z. Wouldnt it be better if there was say an exploration organization that sent you to star System A looking for an anomaly and then they sent you scanning planet 3 in Star System B for some corp seeking a lucrative mining opportunity etc..) you can also have game play in there, increase rep to get better pay more difficult rewards etc...) Maybe even some multi quest epic story archs that have you seeking some ancient civilization and in the end you get this nifty scanner that costs a million credits as a reward for your effort. On paper that all sounds great, in practice though will it really be better? Consider this there are 400,000,000,000 star systems that you can explore. Each of these has an average of about 6 items you can scan and explore. Thats a mind blowing 2400 billion potential targets. There is no way to come up with that many unique stories no doubt. So what you'll get is perhaps 1000 unique stories if even. So in addition to still doing the same repetitive action (go to point X and scan) you'll also start to experience repeated story line. Thats not all but with a mission system that is random you're very likely to be sent to explore the same place you've been making it even more repetitive. How is that possible you might say with 2400 billion potential target the chances of getting a duplicated are essentially 0. Which brings me to my next issue. With a mission quest hub your exploration will be tied down. Think about it? you have an npc thats giving you a mission. How far can s/he send you? It would be crazy if for a mission that pays 5000 credits you're send some 10,000 jumps away surely. anything more then 10 jumps will be crazy. At the end of the mission you have to return for your reward and it is where you'll pick up your next mission. So while the galaxy may have an unimaginable 2400 billion different object you can see some of which literally no one has seen yet and the vast majority of them no one will get to see because of your reliance on this NPC to get and receive missions you're tired to a small area of space with 200 - 300 unique things to explore (estimating 40 systems in a 10 jump radius) and that makes the chances of getting a duplicate essentially a certainty.

Which brings us back to why sometimes people are resistant to some suggestions. Sure we'd all love an epic story line like say being sent looking for some ancient alien ruin rumored to have advanced tech that can lead mankind to the next stage of evolution or something. Stories are always awesome after all. Problem if you're driving things by story you need enough of them to drive all the game and with something the size of ED its simply not possible. Trying to force it will make up for a much poorer game in the end. After all which will feel more repetitive in the long run? One day you decide to go get lost in the unknown picking the first star to your right and bodly go where no one has gone before? or having to go back and forth from some guy each time you want to explore something new?

 

[bend_r]

I really must have missed that point in time where it startet to be ok to buy a game that is not finished.
Imagine a time when internet was a thing to communicate between scientific faculties and videogames had to be burnt on a silvery coated disc with lasers.

Yes, that is how it was, nearly 20 years ago. I remember the last year on school (before moving to university), that was 1996. We had analog modems (14.400 bps) at the time and even then there were patches to download
from the BBS systems. Three years later we had an ADSL line at the dorm.

In todays world, you fire up steam, origin or any proprietary launcher and it does the work for you. But zero day patches are the norm now.

Sales have moved backward in time as well. First there was pre-order, then there was early access, nowadays we have Kickstarter where we give away money years before a product is finished.

Heck, even the gaming magazines have started to 're-visit' online games, and it is not unheard of that the game in question gets a correction on the score.

In software development this is called incremental delivery. For us backers it is good they release early, beacuse it means that they get the background system and events started.

It boils down to a business descision, and I feel we lack the data to go up to them and say 'Frontier, you have your business case wrong, it will not sell in the way you need it to'.

Do you know how it will sell? Do you know how they need it to sell? Neither do we, so let's not pretend as if it was obvious how it's going to play out.