So many game balance problems - getting worried about Release in 2 weeks

[SentineI]

As the title says, it's starting to feel like Frontier bit off a little more than they can chew, when setting 16th December deadline for Release. I haven't yet seen Frontier fix any game balance issues (nor bugs causing balance issues) in Gamma:

* Bounty-hunting is broken due to faction bug... game not fun. They at least seem aware of this now (it took a forum post to notify them, as tickets were being incorrectly closed saying "working as intended"), but not fixed yet.

* Trading is now pretty hard (seemingly due to them fixing an NPC trading bug)... game not so fun. And no sign they even consider this a bug.

* Almost impossible to find many outfitting parts... game not fun. And little sign they even consider this a bug (a few small improvements but they feel very grudging).

* Mining is very tedious & barely worth it, unless you can find a diamond-in-a-haystack Pristine or Major reserve of Metallic ores. And no sign they'll be releasing the Mining Scanner any time soon, which would make it less tedious (but probably still hardly worth it without Pristine reserves).

* You can't be a Mercenary, as Combat Zones seem to have been removed from the game. We can only hope they'll be re-introduced for the Story on 16th December, since they show-cased one at the Premier, particularly with them selling a "Mercenary Edition".


So, that's Bounty Hunting, Trading, Mining & Mercenary roles which all feel broken from the player perspective... and even if you somehow manage to make money you'll find it almost impossible to find ship parts for you to spend your money on. It's almost a wonder that anyone is still playing Gamma (sorry "testing" Gamma) at this point.

Add lack of proper multiplayer features (grouping & local chat), and I'm really wondering what new players are going to be doing upon Release, after they've gotten to grips with flying their ship.

EDIT: For people mis-reading what I wrote above, I *never* stated "this is all we get". I know Frontier are going to be improving things (slowly) after Release. But that doesn't fix what may be major issues at release, and won't fix bad press resulting from that.

 

[Serkor]

Well, if you have come to the conclusion that (from your point of view) nothing is playable, you should seriously consider looking for other more enjoyable games. There are plenty !

New players will do whatever they feel like doing (that's the idea behind open universe) and if they don't like it after a while, they will also go play other games.

It's been like this since games exist. You start playing them and if you don't like them, you move to something else.
Sometimes you like some games so much you keep playing them for years. But the guy next door will not enjoy them and will not play them.
And you will not be able to convince him that the games you love are good, and he will not convice you either that they are crap. That's life ... tastes and colors...

 

[ste]

December 16th is just the date it becomes available to buy. Its not some cut off date when everything has to be finished by. It still going to need a lot of work beyond that.

Dont expect everything to be polished working and balanced by the 16th cos it wont be. It will release with issues.

 

[Grinchy]

I agree, ill try to hold my negative thoughts until the 16th.

Regardless even after release this is still a work in progress, like every game released now, certain aspects are a MUST work on release. And are expected to work as intended... A little discussion on import/export from the devs would go a long way for me as its never worked right. Galaxy map trade lines have always lied.

 

[SentineI]

December 16th is just the date it becomes available to buy. Its not some cut off date when everything has to be finished by. It still going to need a lot of work beyond that.

Game reviews are done at release. Meta critic doesn't removed negative reviews, including user reviews.

 

[Memnoch]

This seems to be a common misunderstanding, that when the game is released on the 16th that's what we are stuck with. By the 16th the game should be in a state where FD could release it to the public as a product worth buying and playing. But as with may ".0" releases there may be missing features or existing ones that don't work quite as they should. That's what the point releases are for!

 

[ste]

Game reviews are done at release. Meta critic doesn't removed negative reviews, including user reviews.

I agree. I didnt say it was a good idea, I just said thats the way frontier are doing it.

They have not made it clear that the 16th is not finished day, and they are going to regret it I think.

The public and reviewers are going to review it like finished day.

 

[SentineI]

Well, if you have come to the conclusion that (from your point of view) nothing is playable, you should seriously consider looking for other more enjoyable games. There are plenty !

I'm sorry, but that's just a nonsensical reply. I've been enjoying Elite Dangerous (to a degree) since Premium Beta, but since Gamma playability has really gone down hill. It's unclear whether some of these are intentional or not, and the rush to Release makes it less likely they'll have it all sorted out by then.

Telling unhappy players "if you don't like it then go play something else" is a really bad thing to do. That's not fixing the underlying issues, that's just sweeping them under the carpet. And what if those issues are going to be fixed by Frontier later on? Then your recommendation has just lost a player (and potentially lead to bad user review), when they might just have needed to wait a few weeks/months. White knights like yourself can do more harm than good.

e.g. Are you really saying that people (who want to do Bounty Hunting) should abandon Elite Dangerous, and leave bad reviews, just because Bounty Hunting is currently broken by a bug?

 

[orfeboy]

As the title says, it's starting to feel like Frontier bit off a little more than they can chew, when setting 16th December deadline for Release. I haven't yet seen Frontier fix any game balance issues (nor bugs causing balance issues) in Gamma:

* Bounty-hunting is broken due to faction bug... game not fun. They at least seem aware of this now (it took a forum post to notify them, as tickets were being incorrectly closed saying "working as intended"), but not fixed yet.

* Trading is now pretty hard (seemingly due to them fixing an NPC trading bug)... game not so fun. And no sign they even consider this a bug.

* Almost impossible to find many outfitting parts... game not fun. And little sign they even consider this a bug (a few small improvements but they feel very grudging).

* Mining is very tedious & barely worth it, unless you can find a diamond-in-a-haystack Pristine or Major reserve of Metallic ores. And no sign they'll be releasing the Mining Scanner any time soon, which would make it less tedious (but probably still hardly worth it without Pristine reserves).

* You can't be a Mercenary, as Combat Zones seem to have been removed from the game. We can only hope they'll be re-introduced for the Story on 16th December, since they show-cased one at the Premier, particularly with them selling a "Mercenary Edition".


So, that's Bounty Hunting, Trading, Mining & Mercenary roles which all feel broken from the player perspective... and even if you somehow manage to make money you'll find it almost impossible to find ship parts for you to spend your money on. It's almost a wonder that anyone is still playing Gamma (sorry "testing" Gamma) at this point.

Add lack of proper multiplayer features (grouping & local chat), and I'm really wondering what new players are going to be doing upon Release, after they've gotten to grips with flying their ship.

Ignore the fan boy responses. You are right. At present it is very difficult to make money by any other means than trading and that took a major shift lately. I think the devs are balancing the game right now and it may take a while to get it right but I agree with you. 'Blazing your own trail' is a nonsense at the moment since it seems that the other professions do not allow you to make money in any satisfying way. Trying to discuss these issues intelegently usually results in someone telling you 'maybe this game is not for you' or talking down to you like as if you don't now how to play the game. Which is just sleep inducing at this point. Before that it was 'it's just a beta'!

I trust however that this will get balanced in due time. They can't get everything perfect immediately afterall. You are right to raise this sort of thing as an issue because it is true. The levels of fanboyism on this forum over the last few days is becoming nausiating. I can understand people are sick of listening to others moaning but their are genuine problems outside of the lack of content at release and they need to be sorted. You are right to do it. Nodding our heads and grinning and living in denial will not make this a better game. Pointing out its faults will.

 

[Tar Stone]

Apart from the market problem, I don't now how much of it is genuine balancing and how much of it is us being railroaded into different areas. I had assumed they had enough data at gamma for balancing.

At premium beta it was obvious after a few days that there were simple lucrative trade routes 'put there', then at each update different areas became more profitable. I thought that was quite smart, but always thought that gamma would be more or less balanced.

Seems like there's a fair bit still to do.

 

[Serkor]

I'm sorry, but that's just a nonsensical reply. I've been enjoying Elite Dangerous (to a degree) since Premium Beta, but since Gamma playability has really gone down hill. It's unclear whether some of these are intentional or not, and the rush to Release makes it less likely they'll have it all sorted out by then.

Telling unhappy players "if you don't like it then go play something else" is a really bad thing to do. That's not fixing the underlying issues, that's just sweeping them under the carpet. And what if those issues are going to be fixed by Frontier later on? Then your recommendation has just lost a player (and potentially lead to bad user review), when they might just have needed to wait a few weeks/months. White knights like yourself can do more harm than good.

e.g. Are you really saying that people (who want to do Bounty Hunting) should abandon Elite Dangerous, and leave bad reviews, just because Bounty Hunting is currently broken by a bug?

Sorry for not being a White Knight, I didn't even start playing the game, I will probably buy it in January when the release bugs will start to be ironed out.
All I'm saying is that if I don't like it after playing it for a while, I will just make "Uninstall" and move on to something else. ( even if I enjoyed a lot the original game )

Do you really think the development team will considerably alter their project or the future plans only because a few people will complain on a forum ?
We all know that people posting on forums related to a game usually represent around 10% of the players. Let's say 25% of these 10% complain, that makes it only 2.5% of the players !
And that 90% of the players will not even read this forum.

 

[ste]

Ignore the fan boy responses.

Its not really fanboyism.

Theres 3 camps giving opinions on the forum.
1 happy the way things are.
2 The ones that know its not finished and know its potential.
3. The ones that are thinking this is it.

The only ones that are wrong making all the noise is number 3.

 

[Grinchy]

Sorry for not being a White Knight, I didn't even start playing the game, I will probably buy it in January when the release bugs will start to be ironed out.
All I'm saying is that if I don't like it after playing it for a while, I will just make "Uninstall" and move on to something else. ( even if I enjoyed a lot the original game )

Do you really think the development team will considerably alter their project or the future plans only because a few people will complain on a forum ?
We all know that people posting on forums related to a game usually represent around 10% of the players. Let's say 25% of these 10% complain, that makes it only 2.5% of the players !

If the players are not on the forums posting about the problems, it does not mean the problems are not there...

The problem the 10% mentions can/could effect every player... So yes... I think it would be a good idea for the devs to act on said problems...

Obviously sometimes the problem is just a personal view. My point is you dont need 100 people to shout an issue to know its there, you just need 1.

 

[Serkor]

OK everybody has the right to use his free time the way he wants... I'm off to play something ... See you in the galaxy !

 

[SentineI]

Do you really think the development team will considerably alter their project or the future plans only because a few people will complain on a forum ?

Yes & No:

No: They won't change the game, just to keep a minority happy (how-ever vocal they may be), if their requests conflict with the game they are trying to make (aka their "vision").

Yes: If genuine problems are pointed out, which they don't know about (and I already mentioned one which they only know about BECAUSE of a forum post), then surely they will look at addressing them. How soon? No idea. But this is "Gamma testing", so we are SUPPOSED to report things we think are issues. Forums are also for discussing the game, which I am attempting to do...

 

[Swan]

I've said this before every milestone release, and it's always borne out to be true:
-
What you're playing now is just what they want to test the most. What they're actually working on is much bigger in scope.
-
With the various releases, the programmers haven't just sat back and waited for the bug reports to roll in - that's a Q&A job. They've been working on the bigger game in the background i.e. everything with bells and whistles that we know nothing of yet.
-
Someone made a great post a few weeks back about the perils of partaking in a beta. At the end of every round, we've had, "Is that it? Is that the full game? IT'S DOOOMED!"
-
The problem is that the cliché, "It's just a beta," is actually the most accurate response to that. Remember when mining was released? They nerfed trading so we'd focus on mining. But then it was all, "OMG TRADING'S BROKEN IT'S DOOOOMED!"
-
I would say to anyone who's frustrated with the game: 1. Perhaps you've got beta fatigue and 2. Wait until FINAL release.

 

[SentineI]

Ignore the fan boy responses. You are right. At present it is very difficult to make money by any other means than trading and that took a major shift lately. I think the devs are balancing the game right now and it may take a while to get it right but I agree with you. 'Blazing your own trail' is a nonsense at the moment since it seems that the other professions do not allow you to make money in any satisfying way. Trying to discuss these issues intelegently usually results in someone telling you 'maybe this game is not for you' or talking down to you like as if you don't now how to play the game. Which is just sleep inducing at this point. Before that it was 'it's just a beta'!

I trust however that this will get balanced in due time. They can't get everything perfect immediately afterall. You are right to raise this sort of thing as an issue because it is true. The levels of fanboyism on this forum over the last few days is becoming nausiating. I can understand people are sick of listening to others moaning but their are genuine problems outside of the lack of content at release and they need to be sorted. You are right to do it. Nodding our heads and grinning and living in denial will not make this a better game. Pointing out its faults will.

Thanks for your reply. It's about the only level-headed response I've received, which is a bit depressing. The forums would be a lot better off without the following kinds of posts:

1. People defending the indefensible (aka bugs & balance issues). They should try to understand the issues & suggesting ways to solve them (even it is just "Frontier is aware of the problem so you'll have to be patient").

2. People giving vague & UNconstructive crticisms (e.g. "ED sucks" or "it's really boring" aren't terribly helpful on their own), never mind those mindlessly bashing Frontier.

 

[OldSalt]

There are a lot of questions as to what will be tweaked in the release version and what will be added. Pesonally I am very pro ED but even then I am getting slightly fed up with the growing crowd who would try and silence concerns with stock retorts 'Its an Alpha', 'its a beta', 'its a gamma', and now it is clear the next line of 'I am right and you are wrong' is 'its only the first version of the game, it is going to be everything to everybody somewhen'

As for how anybody who hasn't even played the game can sensibly post in a thread regarding gameplay issues is beyond me. Actually, it isn't, they shouldn't. Period.


Discounting inevitable Trolls I think good and bad opinions on the forums are formed out a genuine underlying enthusiasm for the game. Where it gets messed up where reason and an objective view gets cast aside because 'I am right and you are wrong', that is the black and white while reality lives in shades of grey. As for the game I can understand the OP's concerns, personally I have a few of my own. All that said though part of the fun of buying into any of the pre release phases of this game is watching it unfold, and I am. ED has too much potential for its own good in my opinion so it is only natural that those who are really enthusiastic about it stress out when it doesn't work properly, push for more (because we know it can do it) and vent when they feel its not going right.


Taking a deep breath and thinking twice before bashing a keyboard does have its benefits though !

 

[SentineI]

I would say to anyone who's frustrated with the game: ... Wait until FINAL release.

Don't report problems until AFTER it's released?!? It's a bit late by then!

 

[Swan]

Don't report problems until AFTER it's released?!? It's a bit late by then!

What do you think Q&A are working on now for final integration? If there's a load of mad problems in this release, they fix them and then incorporate them in the main release. Otherwise we'd be downloading the game every few days - that's the whole point of the beta process - incremental fixes for the smaller problems, which they've been doing, and larger fixes ready for the next release, which is what they've been doing!