Trade Profits Nowhere to be found

[SuperGhostMaster]

Since the most recent update 1.05, I have been unable to find any significantly profitable trade routes, to the point that after and hour and 1/2 of gameplay today, I just broke even.

Not only that, I've been being offered cargo missions that claim the target location is under 7Ly away, yet it's actually like 40.

There's a LOT of missions which make very little sense in terms of the task, for example being asked to bring Food Cartridges to a location that *sells* food cartridges, being tasked with taking 4 tonnes of cargo that's worth ~8K for a 500CR profit.

Trade "data" is completely broken, items that should be profitable based on the system's economy, such as Crop Harvesters from a high-tech location that are 400CR under GA selling for a LOSS in an Agri economy.

There's STILL an issue from like beta 8 versions ago (no idea how far back now) where a mission can be taken which you cannot complete due to never being able to reach the destination with the cargo you must take due to a limited jump distance.

I'm not sure what logic is being used for which missions turn up where, or how trade data is calculated, but it's clearly broken.

 

[Dai]

Trust me I know how you feel, however persevere and you will get there, take note of the economies, most systems are actually mutli economy and the prices level out as a result, look for nice juicy single economy systems with a bit of distance to a partnering economy ie, extraction and industrial, heavier populated also offer more demand. keep all this in mind and you won't go far wrong, just don't expect those markets to be everywhere and handed out on a plate you have to find them (it is kinda the point).

 

[adoredtv]

There's a LOT of missions which make very little sense in terms of the task, for example being asked to bring Food Cartridges to a location that *sells* food cartridges, being tasked with taking 4 tonnes of cargo that's worth ~8K for a 500CR profit.

If you get asked to provide something when it's in the commodities market, rejoice! For thou shalt have an easy task making credits.

Trade "data" is completely broken, items that should be profitable based on the system's economy, such as Crop Harvesters from a high-tech location that are 400CR under GA selling for a LOSS in an Agri economy.

Are you sure you got the right STATION?

I'm not sure what logic is being used for which missions turn up where, or how trade data is calculated, but it's clearly broken.

Why am I not having any of these issues?

 

[SuperGhostMaster]

If you get asked to provide something when it's in the commodities market, rejoice! For thou shalt have an easy task making credits.



Are you sure you got the right STATION?



Why am I not having any of these issues?

I don't know, you're right - since you're not having the issue, no one else must be, either, huh? Well, guess I was just wrong, I'll go back and play the game like you instead; I'm sure it will magically be okay now.

 

[RobinsonUK]

Since the most recent update 1.05, I have been unable to find any significantly profitable trade routes, to the point that after and hour and 1/2 of gameplay today, I just broke even.

As much as an hour and a half? That's like aggggggggggggggggggges. I found a profitable route for my Cobra at ~1k per ton, completely by chance. I can't tell you where it is because that would be extremely foolish.

Edit: Though you are right, the data and the markets don't entirely correspond how you might expect. Yet.

 

[Zeeman]

You need to get out there and search. I spend my time bounty hunting from system to system, and look at high value metals (exclusively) at every station I visit, I've some across a run that is about 5 minutes total each way, and I as getting about 1500cr profit per T trading gold. I only have an Eagle, so it wasn't exactly a huge money maker, but I did it to get my trading rep up a bit, then on the way back, I hit the Nav beacon to rack up some bounties, which I claimed at the station where I bought the gold. This was about 90Ly from my start point.

I think too many people treat the game as a "must make money now", and forget to just have some fun. I am barely worth a million cr total, but I am really enjoying my overall experience of having a bit of a go at everything. There is a wipe coming anyway, I'd rather spend my time getting the hang of everything, so I can be more efficient when the game really kicks off.

You can't take your money with you, it seems...

Z...

 

[adoredtv]

I don't know, you're right - since you're not having the issue, no one else must be, either, huh? Well, guess I was just wrong, I'll go back and play the game like you instead; I'm sure it will magically be okay now.

You already got one part right by checking the BB first of all. That's what you should do, every time. If they want stuff that's for sale in their own market then that's absolutely great - the easiest credits you'll ever make in fact. I don't know why you're complaining about this?

As the poster above me noted, the data you can buy might be system related, however each system can have very different hubs selling and buying very different goods. This is a huge part of the game - it's not "broken". Just go to another station, it's actually very logical when you think about it. Look at the planet below, look at the station above. It makes pretty good sense.

 

[Chek]

I've been running cargo between two stations in an empire system (no jump involved, very low fuel costs), which started at 1.2k profit per ton both ways, has now dropped to just under 1k. Took me the first week of gamma to find it. Jumping from system to system, recording market info from the various stations. Well worth taking the time though. Have gone from hauler to Asp. Even when you do find that place you still have to do a LOT of runs. There are no shortcuts in this game.

 

[Turk Madden]

I like that things aren't just handed out to a person. It's more exciting to explore and discover your own trade routes. Everyone has their own little niche of things they follow and sell. I think it would be so boring if it was easy. Once you do it through hard work and get enough money to afford something nice.. you feel a sense of accomplishment.

 

[Antenociti]

Since the most recent update 1.05, I have been unable to find any significantly profitable trade routes, to the point that after and hour and 1/2 of gameplay today, I just broke even.

Not only that, I've been being offered cargo missions that claim the target location is under 7Ly away, yet it's actually like 40.

There's a LOT of missions which make very little sense in terms of the task, for example being asked to bring Food Cartridges to a location that *sells* food cartridges, being tasked with taking 4 tonnes of cargo that's worth ~8K for a 500CR profit.

Trade "data" is completely broken, items that should be profitable based on the system's economy, such as Crop Harvesters from a high-tech location that are 400CR under GA selling for a LOSS in an Agri economy.

There's STILL an issue from like beta 8 versions ago (no idea how far back now) where a mission can be taken which you cannot complete due to never being able to reach the destination with the cargo you must take due to a limited jump distance.

I'm not sure what logic is being used for which missions turn up where, or how trade data is calculated, but it's clearly broken.

I havent clocked 24 hours in the game yet, but have found a nice 3-way route thats starting to turn decent money >1000C per ton...which is peanuts compared to some no doubt, but combined with mission in the BB its a nice earner... the starting few missions earn nothing, then theres a big hike once youve done a few for a single faction, you build upon success essentially.

As others have said the key is that the economy is not system based, but the presentation of trade routes within the galaxy map is...

I suspect a lot of people are just turning up in a system, docking at the first station and then saying "Its broke" because they cant sell the good they bought from system A (but if they went to station 7, they could).

Anyway, its takes a little working out but you have to EXPLORE within systems and soon you start finding both trade routes and better missions once you start to build a rep with a faction.

anyway... ..doesnt seem broken to me, and i've been at it all of < 1 day in game.

(fwiw though i did spend 2 hours yesterday making a loss of about 5000 creds on a 600cred mission to deliver data - but thats because i got to pieces en route....)

 

[Merquise]

I havent clocked 24 hours in the game yet, but have found a nice 3-way route thats starting to turn decent money >1000C per ton...which is peanuts compared to some no doubt, but combined with mission in the BB its a nice earner... the starting few missions earn nothing, then theres a big hike once youve done a few for a single faction, you build upon success essentially.

As others have said the key is that the economy is not system based, but the presentation of trade routes within the galaxy map is...

I suspect a lot of people are just turning up in a system, docking at the first station and then saying "Its broke" because they cant sell the good they bought from system A (but if they went to station 7, they could).

Anyway, its takes a little working out but you have to EXPLORE within systems and soon you start finding both trade routes and better missions once you start to build a rep with a faction.

anyway... ..doesnt seem broken to me, and i've been at it all of < 1 day in game.

(fwiw though i did spend 2 hours yesterday making a loss of about 5000 creds on a 600cred mission to deliver data - but thats because i got to pieces en route....)

Wait....

So if I understand correctly:
I buy Gold in system A.
I look at galaxy info, it says system B needs Gold.
I fly to system B.
System B has 3 stations in it.
I fly to all 3 stations and at least 1 of those 3 stations 'needs' gold ?
Because I do that and most of the time Gold sell price is below the galactic average so I get like 150 creds per ton profit.


Also funny is that once I trade a few hundred tons, the prices drop and instead of doing 150 creds profit I only do like.. 40 creds profit.
So far i have real problems making some cash in the game trading.


If I do mercenary work do I eventually get better contracts than the 500 credit contracts I get now?

 

[adoredtv]

Wait....

So if I understand correctly:
I buy Gold in system A.
I look at galaxy info, it says system B needs Gold.
I fly to system B.
System B has 3 stations in it.
I fly to all 3 stations and at least 1 of those 3 stations 'needs' gold ?
Because I do that and most of the time Gold sell price is below the galactic average so I get like 150 creds per ton profit.

Yes. It makes perfect sense actually. Just because a system needs a resource doesn't mean it's going to pay near or above the galactic average. Maybe others need it a lot more? Maybe they have larger, richer, populations willing to pay more?

Also funny is that once I trade a few hundred tons, the prices drop and instead of doing 150 creds profit I only do like.. 40 creds profit.

If you unload a hundred crapton of stuff on a market then of course the demand - and ergo price - will drop.

 

[Antenociti]

Wait....

So if I understand correctly:
I buy Gold in system A.
I look at galaxy info, it says system B needs Gold.
I fly to system B.
System B has 3 stations in it.
I fly to all 3 stations and at least 1 of those 3 stations 'needs' gold ?
Because I do that and most of the time Gold sell price is below the galactic average so I get like 150 creds per ton profit.


Also funny is that once I trade a few hundred tons, the prices drop and instead of doing 150 creds profit I only do like.. 40 creds profit.
So far i have real problems making some cash in the game trading.


If I do mercenary work do I eventually get better contracts than the 500 credit contracts I get now?

erm....

if you dump product somewhere repeatedly of course you will drive down the price - you're satisfying demand and therein decreasing it and depressing the price (you and whoever else is doing the same routes)

... erm....

/me scratches head

how else would it work?

- - - -


i've not done any merc work but have been offered 2 different assassination jobs for >130,000 tonight, so...erm.. yeah.

You need to build a rep with a faction, dont flit about too much.

 

[Chek]

Wait....

So if I understand correctly:
I buy Gold in system A.
I look at galaxy info, it says system B needs Gold.
I fly to system B.
System B has 3 stations in it.
I fly to all 3 stations and at least 1 of those 3 stations 'needs' gold ?
Because I do that and most of the time Gold sell price is below the galactic average so I get like 150 creds per ton profit.


Also funny is that once I trade a few hundred tons, the prices drop and instead of doing 150 creds profit I only do like.. 40 creds profit.
So far i have real problems making some cash in the game trading.


If I do mercenary work do I eventually get better contracts than the 500 credit contracts I get now?

Just because a system wants a commodity doesn't mean it's going to pay you well for it, if anything it will be the opposite as traders will tend to saturate the market forcing the price down, as you describe in the 2nd part of your post. Of course it depends on the commodity as some will always be in high demand. Progenitor cells seem to be a good bet as everyone wants to remain young. Check where you're are selling first though, before you load up.

 

[FX2K]

Lots of things trade related are odd / broken...
Have a scan through this thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=67483

To summarise it:

1. Don't rely on the galaxy map data....You might find it better selling items back to the suppliers of such.... selling coke to coca cola can make more CR than selling it to a supermarket as such...

2. Some stations list no demand in the column, but will buy it from you for close to GA or more and demand seems to be infinite...

3. Stations restock after 10 minutes (or so it seems) so a 10 minute plus round route seems to work best

 

[Chek]

I can't really say if it's broken or not as I'm unsure of how it's exactly supposed to work. I do know that by taking my time and having a good look around I can make some healthy profits...so I guess as far as i can tell, for me, it's not broken

 

[Raf von Thorn]

First of all, people expect the "galaxy trade data" to tell them exactly what to buy and where to sell to get rich in minutes... I blame the modern "welcome idiots" design of most mulitplayer games. The ONLY thing the galaxy trade map is supposed to tell you is where stations sell and where stations buy THE commodity. It doesnt tell if you will profit on the run or not.

Small, basic trading is all about finding a place that supllies a commodity at a low price and a place that buys the commodity at much higher price. This is quite easy, all you need is to write down high demand and high supply commodities prices in nearby, preferably high population systems. If you are able to figure that out, start hauling. If youre not able, go bounty hunting or pirating, cause trading is too complicated for you.

Things get complicated when you get a type 6 or type 9. You will now haul enough cargo to flat the supply and demand prices, reducing your income over time. But if someone is able to earn type 6 by trading, they dont need my advice .

I earned over 20 mil of credits by trading in gamma. As its quite boring, it allows you to get best ships and module upgrades. Bored of trading, you have flatten your usual routes prices? Jump in the A grade cobra or ASP to explore, mine, or bounty hunting.

Trading is the easiest way to get money.

 

[bambam_ofc]

Here's what works for me, starting docked in a new station:

* check the system view, confirm the ECONOMY TYPE of your current station and click on the other stations in your system to see if any have a different economy type.

* if you don't find a suitable trading station in your current system, look at the Galaxy Map at the nearby reachable systems and try and find an adjacent pair with alternate economy types (e.g. INDUSTRIAL and REFINING), preferably with one end being the station you're in now.

So now you have a PAIR of possible locations to trade beween. Let's assume one is where you are now, so you already know your planned destination.

* Look at the BULLETIN BOARD, to see if you can make easy money transporting stuff to the new system you've already chosen. (Also, you can check the bulletin board first and have a juicy mission guide your choice of target trading system, i.e. check if it's a complimentary economy).

* Go into the COMMODITIES MARKET and note down each item with a decent delta from the Galactic Average. The system I use is "-" for something you can BUY, and "+" for something you can SELL, and I only record the delta from the Galactic Average in units of 100. Clearly you're looking for stuff you can buy BELOW the GA, or sell ABOVE the GA (as a guide). So if the market has:

SUPERCONDUCTORS - Sell 6360, Buy 6410, GA 7013

I record that as
SUPER -6 (Meaning I can buy superconductors at 600 Cr below galactic average)

Similarly,

COFFEE, sell 1220, buy - , GA 1000
is
COFFEE +2

Then you have two choices, either (a) take a punt and buy the most attractive looking commodity, or (b) be cautious, fly to your target system, and create a similar list of prices there. I do option (b).

The subtle point is at the target system, write down the prices with a significant GA delta AND ALSO the price deltas for the same commodities listed for your original system, even if you have to note something like SUPER + (-1) which means the target is BUYING superconductors at 100 Cr below market. This is still good if you started with a SUPER -8, which is relatively common.

At this point the list for the target system should be a little longer than the list for the original system, because the former includes the latter, WIth a bit of luck you can see a BERYLLIUM -4 on one system and a BERYLIUM +1 on other, so you're good to go.

When you return to the original system, expand THAT list with the new commodities you identified as 'potential' in the target system. At this point you can see the optimal round-trip for the two chosen systems, i.e. a -4 -> +1 is worth ~500 Cr even though you didn't record the full prices.

If after the first hop to the target system things don't look very profitable, I don't bother with the return leg and just rachet forward.

The most profitable trades for me have been superconductors, metals and minerals, but for the last two you really need a good economy split, i.e. you sometimes have to cruise through a series of refiniing/extraction systems with very similar prices.

 

[SuperGhostMaster]

First of all, people expect the "galaxy trade data" to tell them exactly what to buy and where to sell to get rich in minutes... I blame the modern "welcome idiots" design of most mulitplayer games. The ONLY thing the galaxy trade map is supposed to tell you is where stations sell and where stations buy THE commodity. It doesnt tell if you will profit on the run or not.

Small, basic trading is all about finding a place that supllies a commodity at a low price and a place that buys the commodity at much higher price. This is quite easy, all you need is to write down high demand and high supply commodities prices in nearby, preferably high population systems. If you are able to figure that out, start hauling. If youre not able, go bounty hunting or pirating, cause trading is too complicated for you.

Things get complicated when you get a type 6 or type 9. You will now haul enough cargo to flat the supply and demand prices, reducing your income over time. But if someone is able to earn type 6 by trading, they dont need my advice .

I earned over 20 mil of credits by trading in gamma. As its quite boring, it allows you to get best ships and module upgrades. Bored of trading, you have flatten your usual routes prices? Jump in the A grade cobra or ASP to explore, mine, or bounty hunting.

Trading is the easiest way to get money.

Wow, superiority complex much there? Yeah, I've been playing this since the premium beta. I know how to trade. What I'm saying is that the low/high demand is inaccurate. It's impossible between *some* systems to accurately predict anything that will be of profit.

For most of yesterday, every system I went to within 5 jumps any direction was completely wrong. And items that should profitable in, say an Agri economy, wouldn't be, in fact would be a huge loss, even when there was no station stock at the selling station.

I understand the basic concepts; what I'm saying is the most recent update seems to have broken it in many systems, or something isn't updating correctly.

I've been making the majority of my money hauling for missions - not that it makes much more sense. I'll haul coffee from a location that has another mission where they "desperately seek a better quality of life" and want coffee....to a location that *sells* coffee, but make a ~1k CR profit per tonne @ the destination, where I proceed to pick up coffee and take it back to the location I brought it from an turn a profit.

BTW - I *have* a Cobra. I have been able to trade for profit. It just looks like a lot of the trade data is complete junk.

Expecting trade data to work as advertised isn't a "welcome idiots" - it's the way game is supposed to work, and right now it doesn't, at least not very well.

 

[bambam_ofc]

I've been making the majority of my money hauling for missions - not that it makes much more sense. I'll haul coffee from a location that has another mission where they "desperately seek a better quality of life" and want coffee....to a location that *sells* coffee, but make a ~1k CR profit per tonne @ the destination, where I proceed to pick up coffee and take it back to the location I brought it from an turn a profit.

sure, that's broken, like the missions you can complete at the same station. The trade data and 'Exports to' market info are probably better ignored also. So the only method I've found (maybe this confirms your experience) is to explore reachable markets, note prices, and work out the best route which I'm sure you know anyway, But finding a good route in a 40-cargo cobra is a lot better than relying on missions.