Space Station scale

[Styggron]

Back in January when we saw that amazing last video called Cobra Teaser (Video #17). I was just thinking about scale.

We know the Cobra III is a 1 person craft so if you look at the scale of the space station, it is quite small in comparison so this got me thinking a little more on scale. Sure you would dock and then your ship might be moved off to a holding area where repairs and cargo loadibng and unloading could happen but the station does look a little small still.

There will be different sizes of course so we will get large ones and small ones. One thing I was thinking especially from seeing some of the art work is that some look like their docking ports are not on the centre axis, if they rotated as well goodness that would be a massive challenge.

You could have of course an extremely large station but if you have an enormous docking port it might remove the challenge of manual docking a little...of course you can have smaller docking ports or ones for different sized ships as well as station and onboard computer asissted docking as well.

Frontier are clearly looking at scale very carefully as is evident in all the designs we have seen in the newsletter so the stations would be scaled appropriately and I am sure there are other novel ways to do and other challenges we have not even seen yet that will all be revealed in due time.

 

[Selezen]

We know the Cobra III is a 1 person craft

No it isn't - it's 1 or 2 people.

In the past Elite games, where scale has been rather compromised, the docking slot has always been the scale benchmark. Coriolis stations were always stated as being 1Km in diameter, so the slot is to that scale.

 

[Styggron]

No it isn't - it's 1 or 2 people.

In the past Elite games, where scale has been rather compromised, the docking slot has always been the scale benchmark. Coriolis stations were always stated as being 1Km in diameter, so the slot is to that scale.

ok sorry yes, 1-2 people not that it makes that much difference but if you take the station to be 1km diameter and look at video 17 the scale (as was my point) does not match up. Like I said they need to be scaled up.

Also where is it stated the stations were 1km in diameter ? I must have missed that somehow. Yikes. I had a look at my ELITE manual did not see it in there.

I'm missing something here.

 

[Michael Brookes]

The docking port is designed to just about fit the largest playable ships. The Cobra isn't even close, but bear in mind that the Cobra is a very wide ship.

The docking ports have been reworked since the kickstarter videos.

Michael

 

[Zak Gordon]

I'm hoping for a variety of scale and shapes in terms of the space-stations in E: D. From small to huge.

 

[Philip Coutts]

I would expect that poorer systems out on the rim would have smaller space stations and the core systems would have massive stations, basically based on the through traffic. I would also expect that if a system uncovered a resource such as a valuable mineral or metal they might become extremely rich and embark on a massive building programme to build a nice new and larger station. It would be really cool to dock at the old station and fly past the new structure mid build.

As for scale I think the stuff done for the kickstarter served it's purpose, it looked cool and maybe made people dip into their wallets one more time. I would be very surprised if the cobra's and space stations in the video were the same as what we see in the finished game. Plenty of time for a good bit of spit and polish.

 

[Flavio]

I would imagine that it will be a similar story to airports where places like Sol etc have the largest ports that can accommodate all playable ships where ships are designed to fit in these ports which is why the largest ships are a tight fit. Sol should also have smaller stations where the ports are smaller and therefore if you have a large ship, you will not be granted access and the smaller ships will find it a tighter fit. Going to these smaller ports may give you a different choice of vendors (and therefore price) or missions.
The more distant stations will in my view be smaller as it is visited less which means that if you go there with a large ship, you wont be able to dock at that port but will have to pay another player, npc ship to do the ferrying so that you can get supplies etc.

 

[Styggron]

The docking port is designed to just about fit the largest playable ships. The Cobra isn't even close, but bear in mind that the Cobra is a very wide ship.

The docking ports have been reworked since the kickstarter videos.

Michael

Sounds good to me.

Phew.. at least (maybe) there are no off axis ports to dock in that would be a control nightmare without a computer.

 

[stardotstar]

Something that I think would be an awesome challenge for docking on much larger stations, is when the docking port is so large that you can fly straight in (in a Cobra ]|[ and then see the various landing pads and internal facilities rotating around you. Then, when directed or sequenced, you would have to match spin and somehow negotiate a docking contact.

I missed a lot of the original discussion and only just starting to get familiar with the existing discussions and DDF stuff. I'm not sure I saw the footage that is mentioned here - but is there another topic or other place where I can see how the docking and ship/station scale related dynamics are being worked through?
Cheers all, W

 

[Slawkenbergius]

Something that I think would be an awesome challenge for docking on much larger stations, is when the docking port is so large that you can fly straight in (in a Cobra ]|[ and then see the various landing pads and internal facilities rotating around you. Then, when directed or sequenced, you would have to match spin and somehow negotiate a docking contact.

I haven't seen anything of the actual gameplay, but I believe this is more or less how it will be. However, it's too difficult to do this under manual flight, so the flight assist will probably help with matching the spin, and landing will be more about lining up with the pad. The details are still hazy at the moment though, and they may be subject to change anway.

 

[stephen_usher]

With regards to space stations in general, I would expect the lowest level to not have artificial gravity for the docking bays and essentially have them as a set of single-ship "garages" which can be pressurised/depressurised. Only the living quarters would rotate to give gravity.

Of course, the massive orbital cities would be different.

 

[Perseus]

I'm looking forward to seeing a station being built - maybe helping out with it too.
I hope there are different station types and maybe even sub-types all depending on factions, economy and distance from the core.
However, more than anything, I'm anticipating planet side stations, hubs and ports.

 

[Tinman]

I hope there are different station types and maybe even sub-types all depending on factions, economy and distance from the core.

The chance of there only being one single type of station is IMO pretty much zero.

I'll just repeat something I wrote in another thread a while ago:

I fully expect that the layout of stations will be generated with the help of procedural generation at first release. Not even close of being in such a level of detail that you can walk around in it, but nonetheless.

Why? Well, if you take into account how many stations that is going to exist in this galaxy they pretty much have to find a way to make variations of these stations so we have some way to keep them apart.

Here is how I think they are planning to do it. (Anyone from FD are free to jump in and correct me if you like! )

Pretty much all of the concept art we have seen so far in regards to the stations interior shows some form of rotating cylinder with landing pads along the walls/floors (depending on your point of view).

IMO these pads are just one of many different "modules" that can be placed within the station. Other examples might be storage-facilities, shops, living quarters, greenhouses/parks (as seen in Dev Diary 5) and so on. The layout of these are done procedurally to make each station "unique". This is also a great way for them to test out ideas that later can be applied to settlements/cities on planets. Maybe a lot of the code can even be shared later on which would be another bonus.

Another thing I expect see in stations is that they apply the same ideas they have about how ships can look "run down" if you don't keep them in good condition. I imagine that the stations in rich systems will look pristine and bright like in the latest Dev Diary since they can afford both the maintenance and the energy to keep all those lights on. Stations in poor systems on the other hand will be dark and in serious need of repair. Maybe even steam leaking out of pipes at places. This will of course also apply to pirate/smuggler bases, but maybe for other reasons (keeping a low heatsignature). Basically, it would look pretty much like this image that FD released during the KS:

http://www.frontier.co.uk/docs/images/elite-walls/stationinside_08.jpg

These aspects coupled with slightly different colorschemes, textures and activity going on in the distance (people walking around, vehicles moving cargo and of course ships flying in/out of the station) would make each station come alive and feel as a real place instead of just another copy of "station 7". Keep in mind that the people and other moving objects can be models of very low detail since they, in this first release, are far of in the distance.

From a technical point of view this should be doable and as I wrote earlier great "practice" for things to come later in future expansions. :smilie:

 

[Cosmo Bozo]

I can't really see why the stations don't have a round entrance, other than as a nod to the original elite.
It seems a far more logical thing to do on a rotating station.
along with separate entrances and exits to avoid those pesky head on collisions.

 

[Oss133]

I can't really see why the stations don't have a round entrance, other than as a nod to the original elite.
It seems a far more logical thing to do on a rotating station.
along with separate entrances and exits to avoid those pesky head on collisions.

Tried to +rep you for the blindingly obvious design solution but the system says I can't. Kudos anyway.

 

[Tinman]

I can't really see why the stations don't have a round entrance, other than as a nod to the original elite.
It seems a far more logical thing to do on a rotating station.
along with separate entrances and exits to avoid those pesky head on collisions.

I don't know about you, but if I could walk around on the inside of a station like the ones we have seen I would prefer if the airlock was as small as possible.

Mostly it's probably a homage to the earlier games though, which in turn was a homage to this:

You don't tamper with that kind of tradition!

 

[Nagual]

I would have thought, if the size of the entrance was important, just make it on a static section connected to the larger interior. Fly though static opening, figure out where your pad is and make your way, of course your pad could be on a moving part however that won't make too much sense either. I'm sure future Health and Safety would have a field day..

 

[Philip Coutts]

I would hope we are going to get some details of space stations in the newsletter. I would also imagine the actual docking within the station will be automated to avoid crashes.

 

[Tinman]

I would have thought, if the size of the entrance was important, just make it on a static section connected to the larger interior. Fly though static opening, figure out where your pad is and make your way, of course your pad could be on a moving part however that won't make too much sense either. I'm sure future Health and Safety would have a field day..

Make sense? What are you blabbering about!?

Cylindrical stations in the style of RAMA are cool! Doesn't have to make sense!

From a logical point of view this type of structure is an enormous waste of space. Having all that empty space in the middle of the station doesn't make sense. Instead you could have multiple floors installed inwards towards the center of the cylinder to use the space more efficiently.

But, once again, that wouldn't be as cool visually!

 

[Susimetsa]

Cylindrical stations in the style of RAMA are cool! Doesn't have to make sense!

From a logical point of view this type of structure is an enormous waste of space. Having all that empty space in the middle of the station doesn't make sense. Instead you could have multiple floors installed inwards towards the center of the cylinder to use the space more efficiently.

But, once again, that wouldn't be as cool visually!

You can always argue that the open areas are necessary for long term human residents - to keep them from going insane and claustrophobic in the confined quarters.