Shield Cells OP

[Don_Von_Hulio]

I dont use amy more than two simply because im doing alot of heavy combat via Anaconda missions. If i want to strictly pirate ill take them away and use cargo holds an limpets.

I can still use it to fight Anacondas but i dont want to risk dieing and losing 200k+ in bounties through other factions.

I worked up to and fitted my Cobra without using Shield cells so i certainly can go on making money other ways without them.

A shield cell cannot outrep faster than a pulse laser can damage. As in Cobra vs Cobra headon no misses. If it did yea we would have problems.

Again more than two is just silly and cumbersome imo.

 

[Jarek Storm]

If that's the problem, how about we make all the NPC's weaker, instead of giving the players shield potions for their ships.

Before the shield cells were added (was it Beta 2?) I even remember having to run away some times.

I do not understand the connection between elite not being a fps arena and us needing shield potions for our ships.

I don't think the innate shield recharge of small ships are supposed to withstand heavy weapons damage.

So rebalance the entire game because you don't like shield cells. Good call.

If smaller ships can't compete anymore then the game becomes the hunt for the alpha ship. Fly it and nothing else, no variety, just get the best or go home. Why? It's working too well right now for that to change, just because you don't like shield cells.

I'd agree we should only have 1 at a time like fuel scoops, but to remove an item and rebalance the whole game around that is ridiculous in the extreme.

Edit: I still have to run away, because sometimes shields go down anyway, and cells are useless then.

 

[bassman]

Sounds like you wanted to say "immersion" but you used "feel and mechanics"
And the yea it does add new strategies. Being able to stay in a large battle longer is one them. Using them in conjunction with ecm to battle missile heavy enemies, because when your shield falls you are basically a free kill.

Thats a fair point but my main problem with the shield cell mechanic is that they allow cargo space to contribute to a key combat capability so all of a sudden the usefulness of a combat ship depends heavily on its cargo capacity. This undermines all of the role specialism of the smaller combat ships like the viper and eagle. Id be happier if you had to tradeoff some other key capability in order to have cells, but in anything from a cobra upwards you dont.

 

[Defacto]

So rebalance the entire game because you don't like shield cells. Good call.

If smaller ships can't compete anymore then the game becomes the hunt for the alpha ship. Fly it and nothing else, no variety, just get the best or go home. Why? It's working too well right now for that to change, just because you don't like shield cells.

I'd agree we should only have 1 at a time like fuel scoops, but to remove an item and rebalance the whole game around that is ridiculous in the extreme.

Well, no. I think NPC strength is fine, really. Without shield cells.
I don't really understand why you think there's so much of a correlation between loosing shield cells and ships with high single-shot damage being too powerful. Could you elaborate?

 

[GorgonTMP]

So, what's the point, then?

Topic name is that shield cells are OP, I am saying they are not.

 

[Amaze]

If that's the problem, how about we make all the NPC's weaker, instead of giving the players shield potions for their ships.

Before the shield cells were added (was it Beta 2?) I even remember having to run away some times.

I do not understand the connection between elite not being a fps arena and us needing shield potions for our ships.

I don't think the innate shield recharge of small ships are supposed to withstand heavy weapons damage.

If this is not about pvp then you are free to choose not to use them.

 

[Defacto]

Topic name is that shield cells are OP, I am saying they are not.

Its like healing potion in any mmorpg.
Anaconda was always a challange fighting against until i put two shield cell modules to my ship 16 instant full shield. Now combat feels cheap. No risk. Just press few times on shield cell hotkey and youre fine. I find myself that i dont care then i get hit. I just aim at power plant and wait for anaconda go BOOM. Before that every fight against anaconda was risky, now i can just farm them like 5 in a row until my shield cells are empty.

Imagine PVP. all it matters which has more shield cells...
It needs at least some kind of long cooldown.

Here is the topic post. This is what I'm talking about.

If this is not about pvp then you are free to choose not to use them.

It's not just about pvp, no.
I am not talking about why I would not use them (I do), I am talking about why I think that they are bad and should be removed or changed into something better.

 

[Jarek Storm]

Well, no. I think NPC strength is fine, really. Without shield cells.
I don't really understand why you think there's so much of a correlation between loosing shield cells and ships with high single-shot damage being too powerful. Could you elaborate?

Because without the ability to maintain your shields under such conditions, it's game over before it even begins. One alpha strike and that's that. Which can happen with cells anyway, but at least they give you a chance as long as you fire them off in time. Of course once shields are down they are useless, so it's not unbalanced at all.

 

[RealFury]

I personally don't see a problem with them, to be honest i wish NPC's would use them, especially combat orientated NPC's, even in my viper taking out an NPC cobra / asp / clipper is almost too easy, would be nice to be challenged. They are only really needed in a PVP fight, you shouldn't ever need them in PVE unless you are coming up against a vastly bigger ship and your ship is begging for upgrades. Since i upgraded my Viper to class A shield i have yet to have my shields go down, and i have taken on and defeated several pythons, anacondas and clippers.

As others have said, they require skill to use, have limited ammo and take a module slot that is sorely needed for other internals so it really is a tradeoff choosing to fit one, most of the time i would rather take cargo space or a fuel scoop over a shield cell bank, and once you learn how to properly pilot your ship, you should only ever need to use them in PVP, and in most cases in PVP people go with gank fits, so can take your shields down before you can react.

If anything maybe the ammo cost could go up to say about the 250cr per charge area.. but the actual useability of them is fine and should not be changed

 

[Don_Von_Hulio]

Thats a fair point but my main problem with the shield cell mechanic is that they allow cargo space to contribute to a key combat capability so all of a sudden the usefulness of a combat ship depends heavily on its cargo capacity. This undermines all of the role specialism of the smaller combat ships like the viper and eagle. Id be happier if you had to tradeoff some other key capability in order to have cells, but in anything from a cobra upwards you dont.

That makes alot of sense. I wish you posted earlier because i completely agree. Your simple arguement blows all the others away because its logical.

At the same time. The cobra is considered a multirole and costs twice as much as a Viper. It needs those extra slots that allow for broad customization to be considered multirole.

Any tradeoff you give the Shield cells will effect all ships, not just the Cobra. Instead of changing the Cells it might be better if the Eagle/Viper were adjusted in some way.

The Viper is supposed to be a combat ship. But even without cells, i feel the cobra is better all around and i think the devs should take a look at it... Again. Lol


This is just an indirect statement:
This game just released. Starting a game out by making knee jerk reactions over things that are not completely game breaking (imo) is not good.

 

[Jarek Storm]

As stated, a limit of 1 cell bank, like they did with fuel scoops, would solve a myriad of issues without completely changing the entire combat dynamic, which is working so well right now.

 

[Julio Montega]

I would love to see the mechanic changed:

The carrying capacity of the shield cell bank is derived from it's internal class,
so a class 1 can carry 1, a class 2 2 and so on.
You may recharge your shields as it is now,
but the used up cell is ejected and it takes some time
(chaff reload time feels right) to replace the ejected shield cell.

The shield cell module increases passively your shield capacity (the one from the power distributor)
and the recharge rate, granting you 1/2 pip in shields as passive, since it takes energy to operate the bank allready.

How does that sound?

 

[Don_Von_Hulio]

Id agree with a module specific cooldown as a first adjustment.. So if you did decide to run two you could juggle them. If you make a slight mistake and wander into the fire of the many Conda turrets you have a fall back giving you a few seconds to either run or get back in the blind spot.

Once they fall the shields gone. And 45-50 seconds of fire is enough time to bring a damaged shield down. I have yet to see a Cell outrep accurate damage being done to it.

I still think tjere is nothin wrong with them. Ive never had to spam them, i have however forgot to switch groups and wasted a few lol. I need the total amount over time because fighting Condas lasts a bit and sometimes i only use 2 or 3. Other times ill end up needing 12 to make it through.

 

[Dasorine]

Gotta love how people still don't know how these things work but call for them to be nerfed....

So many of the anti-cell people claiming they instantly refill your shields, that they are constantly spammable for however long you want or that they somehow remove any "shield management"...

Also WHAT shield management? putting power into sys? Thats not really shield management... its not like putting more power into it raises shield recharge rate or such.

Shield Cells are not an instant refill unless you have tiny shields, the recharge is an over time thing and can easily be countered in most cases by a single weapon firing on them. They have an ammo limit, sure this can be increased by more banks at the moment but if people are spamming them like lots of people are claiming then those 30 odd shots aren't going to last any time at all SPECIALLY if they actually HAVE to spam them like that because that means there shields are constantly being torn away so once there out there shields will go down fast.

People claiming these remove gameplay or don't add anything don't understand how they work or what they are really talking about, allowing players a defensive mechanic that they control but have limitations for is very close to the definition of added complexity, what next chaff launchers OP because people keep spamming them so your sidewinder with 2x gimbal weapons can't hit them?

 

[Don_Von_Hulio]

Putting power to sys basically increases a shields toughness.

I do agree with the rest though. Some people here dont sound like they have much experience.

 

[Miimis Maks]

Main problem lies with NPC who lack ability to counter rapid shield cells recovery making combat too easy with just one module installed (shield cell bank).

 

[Tenshi]

Shield Cells take up room and is a tactical system used in combat. When you have them fitted you have to give up room that could be used for other things like cargo space or scanners, fuel scoops. It is a part of learning to fly and skill as to when to use them. They are not infinite and eventually you will run out of them or miss time a fire. They do not do a instant recharge and I have had my shields fail as the cell is being used.

 

[Don_Von_Hulio]

Main problem lies with NPC who lack ability to counter rapid shield cells recovery making combat too easy with just one module installed (shield cell bank).

Everything below Master rank is easy in general. Imo.

 

[Dasorine]

Putting power to sys basically increases a shields toughness.

I do agree with the rest though. Some people here dont sound like they have much experience.

Thats still barely shield management and its not really going to change much outcomes with the amount it actually changes at least compared to other games shield management systems where the effect is clear and highly useful. Its like putting pips into engines isn't really speed management, yes it increases your top speed but not a massive amount and is completely dwarfed by the simple boost function (which like shield regeneration power into that system helps with but isn't overly necessary for use)

Im still hoping we'll get more combat mechanics as its really quite basic at the moment with very few things to "do" as such. Would love to see there original idea of shielded sections which you have to route power to (that said other games have this) and more combat modules, heck even just ammo types and an ammo storage module would make a huge difference to the combat complexity. It would also make choosing which modules to use much more relevant as right now if your going for combat focused ships you generally don't have any other options on ships with lots of internals, even a viper has enough internals where if you don't care about cargo there's not really much to put into them that's useful.

 

[Rilman]

I like them personally. They are available for everyone to use so there's no unfairness.

I don't think the answer is to remove them, therefore removing game content.