Worth a rant.

I've been playing since launch, quite literally - with a few hours of sleep here and there i have been learning as i go, exploring the game and i would say i've done relatively okay, but i am beginning to doubt whether i want to keep spending my time playing a game that has some of the more frustrating mechanics i've met with in an online game.

Bear with me, please, i will explain. But beforehand let's establish a few rules.
First - let's remember that this is a game, regardless of how immersive it tries to be, it is still very much a game. (this will become important later on) And secondly - let us remember that in any online game there are two very clear classes, the players and the npcs. The former are supposed to enjoy their experience, while the latter are instanced and scattered around for the enjoyment of the former.

Now with that in mind my rant concerns two issues:

Rant 1: Suicidal, overly aggressive `friendly` AI:
Quite a few times while hunting wanted npcs i had 'friendly' AI either get right in my face or otherwise fly directly into my shot, which is fine, it is after all AI and thereby imperfect. The problem is that if you even so much as scratch their paint or poke their shield while engaged in combat with someone else - you get bounty, instantly, automagically.

Which results in endless frustration as now i have to abandon whatever i'm doing and rush to the nearest station to pay for what essentially is flawed aggression mechanics, that is of course assuming i manage to get out before i am swarmed by overzealous fly-by cops. Some might argue that the argument of "oh i accidentally shot you, please don't be mad" is flawed, which is where i will refer you to rule one: this is a game.

Solution:
If a player hits a non-hostile npc/player while engaged in combat with another npc/player which the player is targeting set a short clientside timer allowing for one or two more hits before registering it as an act of aggression. Yes, it does mean that whoever got in your face while you were firing your mega beam of instant death will probably get knocked into a core of the nearest sun; quite frankly they had no business getting in your face while you were engaged in combat.

Rant 2: Last Hit kills and `2 bounties per 10 engagements`:
No. Just no.
Resource extraction sites are the greatest offenders here.
It does not even matter if npcs were shooting that target before, refer to rule 2: they are merely npcs. When they kill a wanted target the bounty goes nowhere, poof, fairy dust. Nobody gets it. And bounties are most important in the early stages of the game, when you need those spacebucks badly and when getting a new gun is a consideration rather than an impulse buy.

Solution:
Bounties should be shared between participating players regardless of who did how much damage (as damage competitions lead to too much idiocy and friendly fire) and regardless of who fired the killing shot, especially when you've got five ships shooting up a single wanted target.
NPCs should not be able to steal bounties in any way shape or form as competing with them for a killshot leads to the first rant mentioned in this post.

Addendum:
I get it, the universe is harsh, it's hard and nobody wants an easy game.
But it is still a game which is supposed to be fun rather than terribly and needlessly frustrating.
And to anyone who posts "git gud, git skilld, buy a bigger gun" research the concept of player retention.

Thank you.
 
Exploiting solution 1:
If you equip your ship with heavy weapons, e.g. rail guns, cannons you can one shot some of the enemies. Then you only need to engage in combat with one of the enemies, which would give you a free pass to destroy any other ship.

Regarding solution 2:
it is a design decision. Yesterday I was delivering a killing blow in about 90-95% of cases in the war zone. Change you tactics so that your shot would be the killing one. It has always required some skill to hit the enemy at the right time to deliver a killing blow.
 
Exploiting solution 1:
If you equip your ship with heavy weapons, e.g. rail guns, cannons you can one shot some of the enemies. Then you only need to engage in combat with one of the enemies, which would give you a free pass to destroy any other ship.

If i am flagged as currently engaged in combat and i am targeting someone, anyone who gets between me and my target is doing so at their risk.

Regarding solution 2:
it is a design decision. Yesterday I was delivering a killing blow in about 90-95% of cases in the war zone. Change you tactics so that your shot would be the killing one. It has always required some skill to hit the enemy at the right time to deliver a killing blow.

It stops being a matter of skill when my guns do three imaginary bars of damage and the enemy has a percentage of hull left.
NPCs simply should not steal bounties as they are not players, and competing with them for said kills leads to situations where you end up trying too hard and shooting someone who is shooting the very same target. That design decision is going to cost you players.
 
research the concept of player retention.Thank you.

Rant 1: Don't shoot friendlies. That is your responsibility.
Rant 2: Learn to use the system rather than expecting the system to bend to you.

Player retention? Pffft. The game will retain the players who are pleased by it. You can never please everyone.
 
If i am flagged as currently engaged in combat and i am targeting someone, anyone who gets between me and my target is doing so at their risk.



It stops being a matter of skill when my guns do three imaginary bars of damage and the enemy has a percentage of hull left.
NPCs simply should not steal bounties as they are not players, and competing with them for said kills leads to situations where you end up trying too hard and shooting someone who is shooting the very same target. That design decision is going to cost you players.

So basically it would be fine if police officers were pursuing bandits and one of them would accidentally shoot the other one because he/she got into the line of fire? You are responsible for any shot you make so you are responsible for not hitting innocent or friendly.

Your solution would ruin the game for a lot of people including myself. It is a completion to deliver the killing blow that makes the game interesting. There can be only one winner.
 
I have to say I have no issue with either of the things you mentioned.

I accidentally hit the wrong ship today for the the first time in forever while getting a little excited with my multicannons, but it was MY fault not the game or the AI. If you pay attention to your surroundings, continually reference the scanner, and take care when firing then this should rarely happen. Besides, I had to pay a tiny amount of 300CR.
 
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Last Shot can be a pain, cant they work out the percentage

10 % Shields + 10 % Armour = 20% payout.
20 % Shields + 20 % Armour = 40% payout. - Recorded Kill
40 % Shields + 40 % Armour = 60% payout.
60 % Shields + 60 % Armour = 80% payout.
80 % Shields + 80 % Armour = 80% payout.

Without this type of reward there is no reason for people ( and forces them apart ) because it comes down to luck.

Also this would get rid of the players who would just run around tagging a target and running off to the next one.
 
For problem 2, what weapon do you use? I am using multi canons, and to be honest, I steal everything from anyone. Just enjoy the view and spray one burst when the hull is at 3% to get the kill. It works both ways.
 
Not worth a rant, honestly.

And you're not the first person to cry "This design is not at all to my personal tastes, it'll cost you players", and you won't be the last. Things need tweaking, for sure, but don't pretend you know what you're talking about.
 
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So basically it would be fine if police officers were pursuing bandits and one of them would accidentally shoot the other one because he/she got into the line of fire? You are responsible for any shot you make so you are responsible for not hitting innocent or friendly.

Your solution would ruin the game for a lot of people including myself. It is a completion to deliver the killing blow that makes the game interesting. There can be only one winner.

Agreed with the last part. Not with the first, though.
To stick to your example, if another cop gets in the line of fire, that's his fault, not the one shooting. In real-life, it's all a matter of training and does not happen all that much due to different reaction times.

In the game, sometimes NPCs fly right into the line of fire from angles you simply don't have enough time to react, like from the "bottom" of your view obscured by the whole cockpit. Do you suggest I should start training my reaction time to take it down to bot-levels? Milliseconds? What about turrets you don't have that much control of, fire-wise? And what if turrets shoot 90 degrees north where I can't see and NPC gets in line of fire up there? Is it my fault too?

Just don't forget OP does not want to have friendly-fire-reaction completely turned off, some people in this community are so happy to jump to radical conclusions it's mind boggling. What OP wants is some sort of warning message sent back so that NPC does not engage you the second you as much as fart at his shields. A reasonable, logical approach.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Both features that are mentioned in the OP are of the type that quickly polarise opinion - "friendly" fire more so.

Both features have been discussed many times.

Frontier are no doubt aware of the feelings of some players regarding "friendly" fire - they could have made changes if they wished to do so. The fact that they have not may be quite telling. From what I have read, friendly fire will probably be switched off in wings when they are introduced.

The Devs' stance on last shot gets the bounty is clear - they want bounty hunting to be adversarial. However in a recent post by Sandro, it has been made clear that when the wing mechanic is introduced then wing members will share the bounty. This still leaves the situation where only one player / wing will get the bounty, regardless of how many players / wings are involved in the attack.
 
So basically it would be fine if police officers were pursuing bandits and one of them would accidentally shoot the other one because he/she got into the line of fire? You are responsible for any shot you make so you are responsible for not hitting innocent or friendly.

Your solution would ruin the game for a lot of people including myself. It is a completion to deliver the killing blow that makes the game interesting. There can be only one winner.


I agree you are responsible for your own actions, but you did not comment on his second point

Lets see how happy your face is when youve had 6bountys in a row... Stolen..?

Most of the time either you are assisting the space police or they are assisting you...

Is it not fair to ask for an assisted bounty payout.... A percentage that you have rightly earned!

To get nothing is so frustrating, i hate kill stealers in any game, them being npcs makes it even worse...

Ethical bounty hunting is not for between players i agree, but npc feds... The design here is a joke and a slap in the face for anyone that attempts to help the feds...

Hope this makes sense ;)
 
Exploiting solution 1:
If you equip your ship with heavy weapons, e.g. rail guns, cannons you can one shot some of the enemies. Then you only need to engage in combat with one of the enemies, which would give you a free pass to destroy any other ship.

Regarding solution 2:
it is a design decision. Yesterday I was delivering a killing blow in about 90-95% of cases in the war zone. Change you tactics so that your shot would be the killing one. It has always required some skill to hit the enemy at the right time to deliver a killing blow.


Re. Solution 2 - that may be so, but it completely negates teamwork and co-op gameplay, as there is no way to share the spoils. I teamed up with someone for the first time last night hunting bounties, and in the heat of the battle it's very difficult to organise who takes the killing shot, in larger teams, especially with people you don't know, it would be impossible and you would be competing with others on your side.
 
(...)

Frontier are no doubt aware of the feelings of some players regarding "friendly" fire - they could have made changes if they wished to do so. The fact that they have not may be quite telling. From what I have read, friendly fire will probably be switched off in wings when they are introduced.

(...)

That is not a fact, that is your opinion and may actually have nothing to do with FD's approach on the subject. Unless there's an official statement on that, it's just your opinion.
They may as well not look into to it due to release date closing in so your guess is as good as mine.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
That is not a fact, that is your opinion and may actually have nothing to do with FD's approach on the subject. Unless there's an official statement on that, it's just your opinion.
They may as well not look into to it due to release date closing in so your guess is as good as mine.

That they have not changed it is a fact. This may, of course, change - as you say, they may have been too busy getting ready for launch. However, the friendly fire issue has been around for a long time now. We'll see.
 
Ok, my 1st post because I'm tired to read rants about things that can be changed by yourself. You just seems to don't know how to do it.
Sorry for bad english it isnt my native.

You got a function to NOT call police when you bounty hunting. I dont remember the right name of it, it is like "call police if someone hit you". Put it to "No", and you'll never got police stolen your bounty (but you'll not have help from them too). And it's good, why ?

Because it would be too easy to just hunt a big bounty and just wait for police to kill them, and got the bounty with your left hand in your pant and drinking a beer with your other hand.
 
I think they said reward sharing will come with Wings. I never saw an official statement but seen a bunch of people writing it. If they add coop features then surely they would add that too, but it would mean you are grouped up when getting shared rewards. If you arent grouped then you have to try and get the last shot.
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Like others have said, since i started to use cannons the last percents of the enemy hull i always get the reward. Havent missed a single reward since 1.0 release. If you would be 2 players firing at a wanted you could share the reward depending on how much health you taken off the enemy ship. You do 60% damage and the other player 40% then you both get rewarded accordingly 60/40. Maybe FD have a good reason not to implement this before we can group in the Wings expansion. I would sure enjoy if it was percentage based. Would make more sense to fly together with someone.
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I'll be arite til Wings, but wouldnt be sad if we got this earlier.
 
I have complained about this issue like Seethe, but I can say give it a few days of battling, you will get used to the mechanics and practice really does make perfect - today i took over 100 bounties and zero friendly fire...
 
Last Shot can be a pain, cant they work out the percentage

10 % Shields + 10 % Armour = 20% payout.
20 % Shields + 20 % Armour = 40% payout. - Recorded Kill
40 % Shields + 40 % Armour = 60% payout.
60 % Shields + 60 % Armour = 80% payout.
80 % Shields + 80 % Armour = 80% payout.

Without this type of reward there is no reason for people ( and forces them apart ) because it comes down to luck.

Also this would get rid of the players who would just run around tagging a target and running off to the next one.

It's quite easy.
If the target dies within some seconds from last being hit by player X that did Y% of damage, he gets a share.

Tagging problem solved.


Pain in the ass when you're raining death on someone at the rate of 5 hits per second, then someone comes in and shoots one rocket.
Yay, it didn't matter that you grinded it's shields and hull for 10 minutes, the 100k is now the guys or NPCs that shot one rocket.
 
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I wont lie.... I too find it slightly irritating when I get kill stolen but like others have said, it is just learning the mechanic of getting a feel for how the battle is going, seeing how much damage the rest are doing and knowing when to keep a little charge in your weapons so that you can rain hell when the enemy is about to die.

Whilst giving a little bit of cash as a thinkyou for the assist maybe would not go amis, as a general rule I do not mind competing for the bounty over all.....

Loads of other games choose to have this mechanic too. WarThunder is a good example. Personally I have no issue kill stealling from NPCs. I do think it a at thing to do against human pilots however.

Also as for pilots coming out of no where........ We have a 3D radar and it is part of our combat skills to use it. being in furballs, ducking and dodging shooting in between team mates is actually quite exciting imo.

Worth a discussion? Sure

Worth a rant? No chance!, imo.
 
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