Wanted problems when in the throws of combat

[Rath]

Last night I had a problem with becoming wanted... Well I say problem, more of an interesting experience.

I was at a NAV point, mulling around when 3 ships spawned in. 2 were "rats" (but only 1 had a system bounty) and 1 was a security vessel.

Fine I thought - I cracked open the Warrant scanner, scanned the "clean" ship and found it had a bounty.

3, 2, 1, OPEN FIRE

All guns blazing I took aim and my gimbled cannons blew the vessel to peices - it was beautiful, like watching a the USS Iowa (circa 1984) open fire... BOOM, goes the cobra with a statisfying "pop".

Then this happened... I noticed, slightly stunned, that I gained a 400cr wanted bounty and the system security vessell started firing on me...

Naturally I put full power to engines and jumped back into supercruise, fled to an outpost in the same system and paid off the fee.


Now... is this as intended? Is it? If the criminal is a criminal in one system, then if his bounties are scanned then surely I shouldnt be attacked for attacking them? Or is this how it should be seeing as we are soon to be at war and incursions are always possible?

I've no problems with it being this way... it was just surprising to me.


Also, one thing to note... is that I've experienced that when in the middle of combat with all multicannon guns blazing, if a ship happens to fly into my line of fire... I GET FINED AND BOUNTIED FOR IT.... If the AI or player is silly enough to fly into my foray of bullets, he should not be protected !

 

[Sandro Sammarco]

Hello Commander Rath!

The Kill Warrant Scanner performs a very specific function: it cross checks a target vessel to see if it has bounties issued against it by factions *other* than the faction controlling the space where you are currently.

By doing this, you learn about those bounties and get to claim them once you have destroyed the ship.

However, the scanner does *not* give you any additional permission to engage the target. If it is clean locally, then you will be committing a crime if you attack it. The local faction doesn't care a single jot if the ship is wanted elsewhere.

As for the accidental shooting issue: we're looking at it. The problem is, the game has no way of identifying intent, so if we relax the rules we risk introducing fairly nasty exploits, where groups of ships can do significant damage because "he got in my way, guv'nor, honest!"

We've got a few ideas we're mulling over though, so we might tweak it in the future.

 

[KING5TON]

Hello Commander Rath!

The Kill Warrant Scanner performs a very specific function: it cross checks a target vessel to see if it has bounties issued against it by factions *other* than the faction controlling the space where you are currently.

By doing this, you learn about those bounties and get to claim them once you have destroyed the ship.

However, the scanner does *not* give you any additional permission to engage the target. If it is clean locally, then you will be committing a crime if you attack it. The local faction doesn't care a single jot if the ship is wanted elsewhere.

As for the accidental shooting issue: we're looking at it. The problem is, the game has no way of identifying intent, so if we relax the rules we risk introducing fairly nasty exploits, where groups of ships can do significant damage because "he got in my way, guv'nor, honest!"

We've got a few ideas we're mulling over though, so we might tweak it in the future.

Make NPCs avoid player fire?
Seems simple and I assume it's what they should be doing anyway but what do I know

Another solution is to only apply a negative effect after sustained fire for X seconds.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

Even something like this...say 10 hit shots on clean ships in the instance, and on the 11th security goes hostile. A kill shot is immediate hostile, even if it was the first friendly fire shot. Fines still rack up for each shot so they're not exactly "free" shots.

 

[SuperMarco]

As for the accidental shooting issue: we're looking at it. The problem is, the game has no way of identifying intent, so if we relax the rules we risk introducing fairly nasty exploits, where groups of ships can do significant damage because "he got in my way, guv'nor, honest!"

We've got a few ideas we're mulling over though, so we might tweak it in the future.

Can't you just put that you are being wanted after 2 or 3 shot on the target ? Or when you are in a dogfight mod (i guess it can be easily done), having 2 or 3 shot free, when you hit an other ship, it's talking to you like : "Careful where you aim MAN !" stuff like that.

I mean, there is a lot of design you could do, the only problem here happen when player were in dogfight, so... just create a combat mod that is trigger after you start to shot and during this period if you shot someone else, you are not wanted after the first hit ?

 

[Dejay]

However, the scanner does *not* give you any additional permission to engage the target. If it is clean locally, then you will be committing a crime if you attack it. The local faction doesn't care a single jot if the ship is wanted elsewhere.

Are there any plans to ever implement a kind of stealth kill? To take someone out without nobody ever knowing about it? Maybe by blocking his transmission or engaging him behind a planet or something.

 

[Scruluse]

Hello Commander Rath!

The Kill Warrant Scanner performs a very specific function: it cross checks a target vessel to see if it has bounties issued against it by factions *other* than the faction controlling the space where you are currently.

By doing this, you learn about those bounties and get to claim them once you have destroyed the ship.

However, the scanner does *not* give you any additional permission to engage the target. If it is clean locally, then you will be committing a crime if you attack it. The local faction doesn't care a single jot if the ship is wanted elsewhere.

As for the accidental shooting issue: we're looking at it. The problem is, the game has no way of identifying intent, so if we relax the rules we risk introducing fairly nasty exploits, where groups of ships can do significant damage because "he got in my way, guv'nor, honest!"

We've got a few ideas we're mulling over though, so we might tweak it in the future.

I consider the accidental fire all part of the experience. After all, it's just a 400cr or so fine.

 

[Rath]

I consider the accidental fire all part of the experience. After all, it's just a 400cr or so fine.

Its not just that, its the penalty on reputation! You just have to be more careful I guess.

 

[Kyton]

Hello Commander Rath!

The Kill Warrant Scanner performs a very specific function: it cross checks a target vessel to see if it has bounties issued against it by factions *other* than the faction controlling the space where you are currently.

By doing this, you learn about those bounties and get to claim them once you have destroyed the ship.

However, the scanner does *not* give you any additional permission to engage the target. If it is clean locally, then you will be committing a crime if you attack it. The local faction doesn't care a single jot if the ship is wanted elsewhere.

As for the accidental shooting issue: we're looking at it. The problem is, the game has no way of identifying intent, so if we relax the rules we risk introducing fairly nasty exploits, where groups of ships can do significant damage because "he got in my way, guv'nor, honest!"

We've got a few ideas we're mulling over though, so we might tweak it in the future.

This is VERY useful information. Thank you!

So if you want to stay on-side with the local authorities, never attack a CLEAN ship, even if it has a large bounty. Got it

 

[CnlPepper]

Hello Commander Rath!

The Kill Warrant Scanner performs a very specific function: it cross checks a target vessel to see if it has bounties issued against it by factions *other* than the faction controlling the space where you are currently.

By doing this, you learn about those bounties and get to claim them once you have destroyed the ship.

However, the scanner does *not* give you any additional permission to engage the target. If it is clean locally, then you will be committing a crime if you attack it. The local faction doesn't care a single jot if the ship is wanted elsewhere.

As for the accidental shooting issue: we're looking at it. The problem is, the game has no way of identifying intent, so if we relax the rules we risk introducing fairly nasty exploits, where groups of ships can do significant damage because "he got in my way, guv'nor, honest!"

We've got a few ideas we're mulling over though, so we might tweak it in the future.

Sandro, regarding the accidental shooting issue, may I suggest the following:

1) a minor hull or shield hit results in a fine on first offence, larger fine on second offence within 5-10 minutes and then an small bounty if you hit a third time in 5-10 mins

2) the police response is tempered by reputation:

e.g. for a small blow to shields, no hull damage or minor 5-10% hull damage:

* allied: strong warning, reputation drop
* friendly: small 50Cr fine, reputation drop
* neutral: 100Cr fine, reputation drop
* unfriendly: 100Cr bounty, reputation drop
* hostile: 1000Cr bounty

It wouldn't take much logic to make the AI feel a lot more human. If I have one general critique of the NPC behaviour it is that they do not have any tolerance at all!

A brief aside: could you please address the NPCs stopping right outside the starport entrance....could they move off at least 1-2km before stopping? I keep getting fines I can't avoid due to the docking area being clogged.

 

[Ozric]

Every single time this comes up, how many threads have been created about "accidentally" hitting another ship in the last few months, well over 50 I would suggest. So I'll ask again the same question I've asked in the ones I could be bothered to reply to.

What happens if a ship has 1% hull left and you "accidentally" hit it and blow it up?

Also can you guarantee that in the throws of battle when you are banking around to chase after a ship, that you are certain that you're not flying through someone else's line of fire? No, so how are NPC ships supposed to be magically aware?

 

[SuperMarco]

Every single time this comes up, how many threads have been created about "accidentally" hitting another ship in the last few months, well over 50 I would suggest. So I'll ask again the same question I've asked in the ones I could be bothered to reply to.

What happens if a ship has 1% hull left and you "accidentally" hit it and blow it up?

Also can you guarantee that in the throws of battle when you are banking around to chase after a ship, that you are certain that you're not flying through someone else's line of fire? No, so how are NPC ships supposed to be magically aware?

Well, there is a difference between hit accidentally and hit accidentally AND killing it. You will get wanted for that, even though you didn't do it on purpose. And this will almost never happen I guess, if the ship is at 1%, that mean he's a target for someone.

That said, they could also implement the "accidental" shot into a new level which is like a small fine to pay to help the player to refund to cost to repair the ship ? (or it goes into the system) and depending of what kind of weapon you are using when you accidentally shot you will or not get the wanted status. Again, there is a difference between simple laser and missile rack

 

[Sashenka]

Hello Commander Rath!

The Kill Warrant Scanner performs a very specific function: it cross checks a target vessel to see if it has bounties issued against it by factions *other* than the faction controlling the space where you are currently.

By doing this, you learn about those bounties and get to claim them once you have destroyed the ship.

However, the scanner does *not* give you any additional permission to engage the target. If it is clean locally, then you will be committing a crime if you attack it. The local faction doesn't care a single jot if the ship is wanted elsewhere.

As for the accidental shooting issue: we're looking at it. The problem is, the game has no way of identifying intent, so if we relax the rules we risk introducing fairly nasty exploits, where groups of ships can do significant damage because "he got in my way, guv'nor, honest!"

We've got a few ideas we're mulling over though, so we might tweak it in the future.

Would it be possible that some kind of Bounty Hunter license could permit us to attack these wanted people even if they are clean with the local authorities? This license could be very expensive but pay itself by Bounty Hunting. Another way is make it pay itself by the issuing authority taking a percentage of each kill. I think the Taxi industry works this way.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[CnlPepper]

Then you get a murder bounty, i.e. tough luck. Police: "Sorry m8, we may be friends and that guy may have been an idiot, but the law is the law.".

 

[ravensoul]

Makes it ever better... love it...
Wanted; but don't pick on me when i am with my friends...

 

[Straha Yeagar]

Well, there is a difference between hit accidentally and hit accidentally AND killing it. You will get wanted for that, even though you didn't do it on purpose. And this will almost never happen I guess, if the ship is at 1%, that mean he's a target for someone.

That said, they could also implement the "accidental" shot into a new level which is like a small fine to pay to help the player to refund to cost to repair the ship ? (or it goes into the system) and depending of what kind of weapon you are using when you accidentally shot you will or not get the wanted status. Again, there is a difference between simple laser and missile rack

No kidding I caught a friendly fire missile once from a security ship...and it didn't become wanted and get a bounty with all the other ships going after it...

 

[SmileyMan]

This is VERY useful information. Thank you!

So if you want to stay on-side with the local authorities, never attack a CLEAN ship, even if it has a large bounty. Got it

With the exception of Anarchies, where there are no authorities, and so everyone shows as Clean.

Also you will still get negative rep with a faction for destroying a ship aligned with them, so if you're trying to favour one faction over another, check the pilot's faction (in the contacts screen) before destroying them. It might be worth letting them live, even if they're wanted and/or attacking you.

 

[Ozric]

A group of 10 of you flying around "accidentally" shooting people 2 or 3 times each and then they let one take the kill, so they get the bounty. Keep on doing this for as long as you like if it's timer based and then at the end, blow up your friend for the bounty he has.

I can understand something being implemented in warzones as you're on the same side, but in normal space it would be too easy to exploit.

 

[Ragnar Drake]

As for the accidental shooting issue: we're looking at it. The problem is, the game has no way of identifying intent, so if we relax the rules we risk introducing fairly nasty exploits, where groups of ships can do significant damage because "he got in my way, guv'nor, honest!"

To avoid exploits, consider being forgiving (fine/warning) only when the ship being hit is essentially undamaged. A stray shot on an already-damaged ship could still be treated as a crime if there's no other way to determine intent, or also if it's hit by a high-damage weapon such as a railgun. I think this would still help for the common situations where authority ships end up in the line of fire without really having contributed to the fight.

Also, the entire group shouldn't switch targets instantly from a large-bounty criminal to someone with a minor infraction.

 

[GlyphGryph]

Give the cops some personality and identity. Make it so it's not guaranteed, but situational.

Cops undamaged after shot, good mood, going after the same target:
"Hey, watch your fire, buddy!" - Mood goes down

Cop undamaged after shot, neutral mood, going after same target OR cop is in a good mood, but not going after the same target (but not targeting the cop and still targeting a valid target):
"You ---! If that happens again, you'll be sorry!" - Cop's mood goes down

Cop undamaged after shot, bad mood, going after same target OR cop is in a neutral mood, different target OR cop slightly damaged, but good mood and going after same target.
"You negligence has been noted, pilot. Do that again and you'll regret it!" - Cops mood down, fine applied

Cop undamaged after shot, terrible mood, same target OR cop is in bad but after a different target OR cop is in a bad mood and is damaged OR cop is heavily damaged.
"That's it, I've had it! You're going to pay for that mistake!" - Cops mood down, bounty applied

Introduce some more dialogue, but if something like this was implemented even if we got a bounty it would feel like it happened for a real reason (The cop was angry at us!) and it would reduce the chance of any meaningful exploit to nil since it wouldn't be entirely predictable and would get progressively worse.